Risso Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 RBS lose all its good staff as well as its bad ones? I'd happily take that chance. Let them go, preferably abroad. Like I say, a bunch of novices, school leavers even couldn't have done any worse over the last 5 years running RBS. Biggest myth going, supported by the Gvmt shamefully also. Banks would not lose these people to jobs abroad, are we really saying that the only reason they stay is because arseholes like Cameron and Gideon let them receive massive bonus and very well paid salaries? If that had an ounce of truth then let the **** walk out of this country and see if they can get equal salaries abroad. Places like Dubai would love to snaffle a whole load of our financial services, and wouldn't be shy at paying the wages either. My brother in law has already been offered the chance to move out there. It's all very well saying "let them go then" but that's just going to make a bad situation worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 24, 2012 ... Whilst its easy to say no to all bonuses, enough city institutions will continue to pay them, and therefore will RBS lose all its good staff as well as its bad ones? If for example a member of RBS does an exceptional job, and say raises £500 million in a year, should he be rewarded or not?... The thing with that is it's like a nuclear arms race, or spiralling player wages. - Well HSBC play big bonuses, therefore RBS has to pay them, too...cripes! RBS is paying big bonuses and they're publicly owned, better us at HSBC up our bonuses next year...and so on. Like with players wages, the players know that they earn more than they should, but human nature is to ask for more because "he gets that much, so I should too". When a bank has been utterly saved from going out of business by Gov't, the Gov't is in a position where it could lay down some changes. Bonuses on genuine merit, above and beyond the call etc. Not just a payment on top of the million quid they already get for doing their job. RBS and LLoyds etc. are not exactly thriving - where's the genuine exceptional performance aspect in these payments? On the one hand it's "times re tight, we're going to have to lay off a thousand workers, and on the other its "right tuck into the bonus pot chaps". As Drat says, call their bluff on the leaving the country, or going to another bank. There's already people in the roles at other banks, at home and abroad. They're a protected species, firstly they get rescued from certain suicide, then they're allowed to carry on doing the suicidal thing all over again. There's little political will to address this. A month ago Cameron was sounding off about how it's all terrible, and this week he's saying people shouldn't sound off about these people. Bloody hypocrits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 24, 2012 Places like Dubai would love to snaffle a whole load of our financial services, and wouldn't be shy at paying the wages either. My brother in law has already been offered the chance to move out there. It's all very well saying "let them go then" but that's just going to make a bad situation worse. Is he going, then, or is he considering what he has now, in the UK? the education for his kids, the free hospitals, the pubs the nightlife, the [whatever you care to mention]? Why will it make a bad situation worse if the head of Big Bank goes to live and work in Dubai? is there no one working for him who couldn't step up? Same for most roles. Sure there will be some highly able people, then again there are some right crooks too. The argument that "I know someone who got offered a job abroad" is not convincing enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 When a bank has been utterly saved from going out of business by Gov't, the Gov't is in a position where it could lay down some changes. Bonuses on genuine merit, above and beyond the call etc. Not just a payment on top of the million quid they already get for doing their job. Which is what I ve been arguing. The feeling has been “why are these guys getting bonuses?” Well maybe some of them have actually earned them? I don’t know the ins and outs of this, and I would suggest most of us don’t. I haven’t examined the RBS balance sheet to know whats working or not... As Drat says, call their bluff on the leaving the country, or going to another bank. There's already people in the roles at other banks, at home and abroad. What I ve said is that is that if RBS decides against paying bonuses, someone else will in London There's little political will to address this. No there isn’t. Basically we have a terrible situation and people not capable of addressing it. But lets get over the idea that one party is better than the other on this. Labour condoned and rewarded this behaviour under the previous government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Places like Dubai would love to snaffle a whole load of our financial services, and wouldn't be shy at paying the wages either. My brother in law has already been offered the chance to move out there. It's all very well saying "let them go then" but that's just going to make a bad situation worse. Is he going, then, or is he considering what he has now, in the UK? the education for his kids, the free hospitals, the pubs the nightlife, the [whatever you care to mention]? Why will it make a bad situation worse if the head of Big Bank goes to live and work in Dubai? is there no one working for him who couldn't step up? Same for most roles. Sure there will be some highly able people, then again there are some right crooks too. The argument that "I know someone who got offered a job abroad" is not convincing enough for me. Well, he's the person I know, but it isn't just him. It's his department I understand, and that *could* be replicated. Not saying that it will, but financial services is such a big part of the UK economy (rightly or wrongly) that playing a game of chicken with them is incredibly dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Whilst its easy to say no to all bonuses, enough city institutions will continue to pay them...Would they? ...and therefore will RBS lose all its good staff as well as its bad ones? I doubt it and who is to say that the good staff are the ones receiving large bonuses who would therefore be wishing to move if they were no longer paid? On the first, if the reason given for bonuses being given is that other people elsewhere get them then why does it not follow that bonuses may be withdrawn if other people elsewhere don't get them? Edit: Completely changed post. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Whilst its easy to say no to all bonuses, enough city institutions will continue to pay them...Would they? Yes they will; if people think they will stop and that they should be stopped across the board are going to be disappointed. Performance related bonuses seem almost a universally accepted form of reward in the world of business? But the thing is that they should be perform related, and that performance must be judged properly. As I ve said previously I am not au fait with the balance withe every state owned bank and to know what every bonus relates to, and which are deserved or not deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 No they won't It's already a saturated market Time to **** off a few of these bankers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The man is a complete and utter clearing in the woods of the highest order. He is frankly one of the most obnoxious individuals ever to set foot in any sort of parliamentary office it's like Sesame street ... we've moved on from Odious to Obnoxious all brought to you by the letter "O" next month from Labour central the letter "P" but as to your claim I doubt anyone would ever take that title away from Prescott ..but i digress the banking sector contributed almost 14% of the total in Government taxes in 2007 and 12% in 2009 ..not seen figures after that but i'd imagine it's still around that mark ..how much of that was in income tax from employees bonuses etc i couldn't tell you ..but lets say we call the banks bluff and let them leave and shout good riddance there's a few billion in lost taxes which would have to be found elsewhere ..wouldn't it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Yes they will; if people think they will stop and that they should be stopped across the board are going to be disappointed. Why are you mixing up what people think will happen and what they think should happen? Performance related bonuses seem almost a universally accepted form of reward in the world of business? But the thing is that they should be perform related, and that performance must be judged properly. Why should the discussion be about bonuses? It may have been narrowed to that in bits of this thread and in a lot of the media but it should be about remuneration regardless of whether that's salary, bonus (performance related to the individual or to the company), a key to the executive cloakroom or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Any one got the recent poll figures...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 the banking sector... That's the financial sector as a whole, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 looking at the Lloyds results the profit of its core business was up 3.2 per cent to £6.35billion. it's only the HBOS purchase and the mis selling of PPI compensation that has dragged it way down assuming all that has now been accounted for (reports were saying they had ) .. can we expect Lloyds to start posting profits og £xx BN going forward ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 the banking sector... That's the financial sector as a whole, isn't it? the report I read referred to "banking sector in the City " so pass I guess A grey area , as Cameron is quite often quick to point out their are jobs in that sector outside of London the report wasn't clear in it's definition in that regard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The problem with Bankers in the UK is a problem across the Western world and further afield. I agree with Rimmer...We should not have bailed any of them out however the blame goes to the governments and regulators who allowed the bubble to grow and get totally out of control in the first place by lifting almost ALL of the regulations that were in place for good reason! Financial derivatives like credit default swaps were actually invented with the best of intentions - they were put in place to insure people's debts, so that the lender had something to fall back if the loaner defaulted on the loan. However as with many things - if you give some people an inch...they take a mile.... and this has now spiralled completely into madness and turned Wall Street & the square mile into nothing more than an unmitigated betting shop. They now takes bets out on anything even soveriegn debt. Stephen Hestor actually is probably one of the few who deserved his bonus because he went into some of the operations of RBS & the casino banking and asked the sensible question of what value to society some of these trades really were? Conclusion none. So he shut whole departments down. The rewards might be high but so were the risks. What I do find objectionable about the bonuses at RBS is that the retail banking side made a profit, yet the staff on the shop floor recieved no bonuses in the main and pay increases of only 1 -2% or in many cases zero. I've been saying for years the PPI scandal would eventually come back to bite LLoyds TSB on the bum along with many others. But IMHO they were the probably the worst offenders. I've come across cases which were simply out and out fraud. So retail banking is also out of control because they are in the main raping and pillaging the poorer of society, the ones who struggle & don't manage their finances well. Investment banking across the globe is just simply out of control. As I posted earlier LOOK at what Iceland has acheived since it all went belly up in 2008. They have just been UPGRADED by the credit agencies. Why?.... Because they let their banks fail....took over them.. and ran them for the benefit of the Icelandic people...they wrote off 13% of the populations debts instead of giving the bankers anything.....and just started again. In other words their government in PUT THE PEOPLE FIRST and said stuff you to the bankers and made international creditors wait second in line. Perhaps the UK, the US, Ireland & Greece could learn a lesson or two by looking at the example of Iceland. Put the people first....before the bankers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 the banking sector... That's the financial sector as a whole, isn't it? the report I read referred to "banking sector in the City " so pass I guess If it's the PWC report then I think it's the financial services sector in toto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 the banking sector... That's the financial sector as a whole, isn't it? the report I read referred to "banking sector in the City " so pass I guess If it's the PWC report then I think it's the financial services sector in toto. who does that make Dorothy ? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I love the way how Scameron is defending the Capitalist culture during this current economic shamble. Its priceless you cant make that stuff up. Oh wooops he already has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 It's really not that difficult, what saying is, given some basic training, the layman off the street or graduates could have done and still can do a better job than some of these grossly overpaid and protected City bankers Sounds like a channel 4 TV show. A huge number of these City Bankers, started off as graduates and layman off the street; i.e. “normal people”. As soon as your graduate or layman gets his training and makes a decent wage, he’s going to become as greedy as much as the next man, surely? Or are we going to teach them ethics? And what are those ethics going to be? Thats not to say that some bankers aren’t actually doing good, and some banks are actually doing a service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Well whatever theyve taught them, it's failed hasn't it They've brought the world to its knees The banks are currently making football clubs look like stellar, robust, well run businesses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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