Euro 2024: Group C (Denmark, England, Serbia, Slovenia)

[ml1dch]

35 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Interesting thing to me is Bellingham has been named as a forward for this? I assume that just means he'll play the most advanced of the three CMs rather than dropping deeper.

I think in that case Maddison probably misses out as you could also play Foden off the striker. Or Eze.

Also where Palmer has done nearly all his best work for Chelsea. 

[VillaChris]

1 minute ago, ml1dch said:

Also where Palmer has done nearly all his best work for Chelsea. 

Think Palmer will just be backup for Saka. And an obvious late extra time sub if a penalty shootout is looming.

[JPJCB]

41 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Interesting thing to me is Bellingham has been named as a forward for this? I assume that just means he'll play the most advanced of the three CMs rather than dropping deeper.

I think in that case Maddison probably misses out as you could also play Foden off the striker. Or Eze.

It's interesting the midfield. It's good to see in form options like Mainoo and Wharton but there's very few caps generally given the other options are Curtis Jones and Gallagher.

This is what @villa4europe was alluding to after the last World cup. Likes of Brazil/Germany immediately try out new players in the friendlies right after the tournament. Southgate has messed around continually picking Henderson and Phillips and now surprise surprise neither are in any shape to play a tournament and the replacements are very young with hardly any caps. He's not going to experiment starting TAA in central midfield suddenly in a major tournament either.

Barely calling up an LB given he's said Shaw getting fit is "a long shot" is also bizarre. Gomez is just a filler, would've made more sense to call up Colwill as he at least played there for Chelsea for half a season.

England will certainly be more defensively vulnerable compared to all the other tournaments under Southgate so basically only hope is Foden and Bellingham are both unplayable throughout it. Neither have hit the heights for England that they have for their club...yet.

This is the exact key point and he’s boxed himself in a bit if we don’t win it. Either the newer players will play brilliantly and the press will say “what were you doing with Henderson/phillips all that time?”. Or they won’t and the press will say we should have blooded them more in international football to get them up to speed 

[Jonesy7211]

Just checked the odds, and with quite a few bookies we're the favourites for the tournament at around 3/1 whilst France are 7/2. Are our players better than we're giving them credit for, or haven't the bookies taken account of the Southgate factor of losing to the first decent team we play?

Genuinely baffled at the odds.

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

Depends if he can get on or not. Guess that means 119th sub just like the Euros final....

He isn't coming on for Kane who'll stay out there even if he can't walk. In fairness Bellingham and Foden put their penalties away in the CL shootout, Saka is very good at them nowadays and Palmer been great at them so England have five good ones in the squad without even taking Toney.

Ollie as we know isn't great at them but he did score the one v Lille which was a very high pressure situation.

Yes, absolutely, a last-minute substitution is exactly the scenario I'm imagining. TBH I don't think Toney will go anyway, though the lack of Rashford maybe gives him a slightly better chance than he would otherwise have had. 

[ml1dch]

55 minutes ago, Jonesy7211 said:

Just checked the odds, and with quite a few bookies we're the favourites for the tournament at around 3/1 whilst France are 7/2. Are our players better than we're giving them credit for, or haven't the bookies taken account of the Southgate factor of losing to the first decent team we play?

Genuinely baffled at the odds.

None of the above. Odds reflect the amount of money that has been placed on an outcome. There's no taking account of anything apart from that really. And more English money goes on England to win.

If you look at a French gambling site, England and France are basically the same odds.

[PaulC]

Have France got better players than Bellingham, Foden, Palmer. Kane and Saka apart from.Mbappe I'm not sure. England have a serious chance and for once Southgate is picking players on merit and not showing favouritism apart from Macguire

Edited May 21 by PaulC

[VillaChris]

47 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Have France got better players than Bellingham, Foden, Palmer. Kane and Saka apart from.Mbappe I'm not sure. England have a serious chance and for once Southgate is picking players on merit and not showing favouritism apart from Macguire

I do think France are a bit weaker than 2022 personally. Lost a shed load of experience with Varane, Lloris, Pogba all for various reasons not part of the set up. Kante was set to be added but he's been recalled I assume for his tournament knowledge in two years. Giroud will also be a sub in this tournament.

Deschamps got away with it in the England match with lack of changes and then in the final he should've started Coman and Camavinga, put both on after half an hour.

Already he dosen't seem to think Saliba is good enough to start for France yet so could see Konate or Upamecano instead which would be pretty comical as both have mistakes in them.

I actually think Portugal are the best rounded team in this tournament. Just looking at their squad and it's very impressive....Dalot, Ruben Dias,Pepe, Joao Paliniha, Joao Neves, Bernando Silva, Fernandes, Leao, Jota etc so a fantastic mix age wise and got good back up on the bench. Their problem will be the same as the World cup, how much will Ronaldo impact on their play in the final third with his lack of pressing and movement? He's nearly 40 now but Martinez pretty much started him every game so can't see him being dropped like in the last World cup. They would be my favourites to win it.

[villa4europe]

12 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Interesting thing to me is Bellingham has been named as a forward for this? I assume that just means he'll play the most advanced of the three CMs rather than dropping deeper.

I think in that case Maddison probably misses out as you could also play Foden off the striker. Or Eze.

It's interesting the midfield. It's good to see in form options like Mainoo and Wharton but there's very few caps generally given the other options are Curtis Jones and Gallagher.

This is what @villa4europe was alluding to after the last World cup. Likes of Brazil/Germany immediately try out new players in the friendlies right after the tournament. Southgate has messed around continually picking Henderson and Phillips and now surprise surprise neither are in any shape to play a tournament and the replacements are very young with hardly any caps. He's not going to experiment starting TAA in central midfield suddenly in a major tournament either.

Barely calling up an LB given he's said Shaw getting fit is "a long shot" is also bizarre. Gomez is just a filler, would've made more sense to call up Colwill as he at least played there for Chelsea for half a season.

England will certainly be more defensively vulnerable compared to all the other tournaments under Southgate so basically only hope is Foden and Bellingham are both unplayable throughout it. Neither have hit the heights for England that they have for their club...yet.

Exactly that, international football is all about the cycles, the last one was kicked out because of euro 21 but knowing that we had a central midfield problem straight after the u21s won it last summer he should have looked at Jones, Elliot, Ramsey even skipp but he didn't, he's had mainoo land on his lap but he's not even tried to fix the midfield that killed us Vs France at the world cup 

[PaulC]

8 hours ago, VillaChris said:

I do think France are a bit weaker than 2022 personally. Lost a shed load of experience with Varane, Lloris, Pogba all for various reasons not part of the set up. Kante was set to be added but he's been recalled I assume for his tournament knowledge in two years. Giroud will also be a sub in this tournament.

Deschamps got away with it in the England match with lack of changes and then in the final he should've started Coman and Camavinga, put both on after half an hour.

Already he dosen't seem to think Saliba is good enough to start for France yet so could see Konate or Upamecano instead which would be pretty comical as both have mistakes in them.

I actually think Portugal are the best rounded team in this tournament. Just looking at their squad and it's very impressive....Dalot, Ruben Dias,Pepe, Joao Paliniha, Joao Neves, Bernando Silva, Fernandes, Leao, Jota etc so a fantastic mix age wise and got good back up on the bench. Their problem will be the same as the World cup, how much will Ronaldo impact on their play in the final third with his lack of pressing and movement? He's nearly 40 now but Martinez pretty much started him every game so can't see him being dropped like in the last World cup. They would be my favourites to win it.

If it wasn't for the  defence I'd really fancy England. Yes France beat England in the world cup but it was very close with Kane missing a penalty and I believe players have matured and are better now. England's midfield is not a problem . Lot of options there with Bellingham and foden named as forwards. 

[Zatman]

29 minutes ago, PaulC said:

If it wasn't for the  defence I'd really fancy England. Yes France beat England in the world cup but it was very close with Kane missing a penalty and I believe players have matured and are better now. England's midfield is not a problem . Lot of options there with Bellingham and foden named as forwards. 

England have a big midfield problem defensively. Rice was found out when stepping up in the Champions League

[The Fun Factory]

If Rice gets injured England are screwed. No cover really.  We will go out in the standard quarter final slot we have made our own, apart from a couple of time we flirted with success. 

Edited May 22 by The Fun Factory

[PaulC]

2 hours ago, Zatman said:

England have a big midfield problem defensively. Rice was found out when stepping up in the Champions League

I don't think Rice has been found out at all he's now a very experienced player for England. There are problems at cb and left back but the rest of the squad is very strong. Maybe backup keeper to Pickford.  France must be struggling in that dept bringing a has been back into the squad.

[VillaChris]

Did Trippier pull up or was he just taken off as a precaution?

Going to be hilarious seeing Joe Gomez at LB when he played about five games for Liverpool in that position in January before returning to the bench.

[HKP90]

Just now, PaulC said:

I don't think Rice has been found out at all he's now a very experienced player for England. There are problems at cb and left back but the rest of the squad is very strong. Maybe backup keeper to Pickford.  France must be struggling in that dept bringing a has been back into the squad.

That's the thing about international management. Most international sides have an inherent weakness somewhere that is dictated by the players available. 

The trick is to minimise these weaknesses by keeping the ball in areas of strength. In England's case, we should be set up to be the most attacking side in world football. No-one would be able to handle or outscore us. Instead we are set up defensively, and the ball is recycled along our back line- giving most possession to the weakest element of our team. It's bonkers. 

[Zatman]

5 minutes ago, PaulC said:

I don't think Rice has been found out at all he's now a very experienced player for England. There are problems at cb and left back but the rest of the squad is very strong. Maybe backup keeper to Pickford.  France must be struggling in that dept bringing a has been back into the squad.

He was poor against Porto and dreadful against Bayern. He was reason Bayern won as he was ball watching

[PaulC]

1 minute ago, HKP90 said:

That's the thing about international management. Most international sides have an inherent weakness somewhere that is dictated by the players available. 

The trick is to minimise these weaknesses by keeping the ball in areas of strength. In England's case, we should be set up to be the most attacking side in world football. No-one would be able to handle or outscore us. Instead we are set up defensively, and the ball is recycled along our back line- giving most possession to the weakest element of our team. It's bonkers. 

This is Southgates last chance  of winning a major international tournament. I hope and think he will be more attacking than he has in previous tournaments.

[PaulC]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

He was poor against Porto and dreadful against Bayern. He was reason Bayern won as he was ball watching

He's been in a final of a euros and semi final of a world cup. He's not a weakness. 

[HKP90]

4 minutes ago, PaulC said:

This is Southgates last chance  of winning a major international tournament. I hope and think he will be more attacking than he has in previous tournaments.

I hope that too, but honestly I don't think he has it in him to change like that. I would be delighted to be proved wrong and we win the final 4 nil, but I just cannot see it. 

[HKP90]

4 minutes ago, PaulC said:

He's been in a final of a euros and semi final of a world cup. He's not a weakness. 

I will be honest, whenever I've seen him (admittedly infrequently in league matches), Rice has been brilliant.