Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Nottm Forest

[TRO]

38 minutes ago, allani said:

Sorry but I think the second goal was just one of those things that happens every now and again.  Every single Villa player on the pitch did their jobs perfectly - with the exception of Cash.  You can't set up the team on the assumption that someone's going to make a mistake or have the defensive line not hold just in case someone gets caught out.  It was a bad mistake by one player.

I do agree with you about our defending from corners though.  It definitely requires some work.  We don't win enough first headers and we don't seem to hold our defensive shape until we've dealt with either the first ball or the second.

However, I don't think that our balance is as out as you are suggesting it is.  You also have to take into account the fact that this season we seem to rarely have the chance to play the same Back 4 (let alone our first choice Back 4) in more than 2 straight matches.  Last season in particular our Back 4 looked superb - because we played a much more settled unit and they really clicked.  I suspect that part of the reason we've struggled more this season is that we've just not had those runs of matches where we've been able to field the same defenders every week.  I think we've also missed Mings as a leader at the back (although sometimes he needed to focus more on himself than those around him) - although Pau and Konsa seem to be developing more of that (in a slightly calmer way).

I don't.....I think I have seen traits of it at Old Trafford away, Chelsea in the cup, and other games.....sure, maybe I study the defensive side, more than some, and pick up on it.

Its all well and good in playing the offside trap, but as you have alluded to, when a player lapses, it means the runners are not being tracked, and the lInesman, becomes a foe....we are then wide open.

Its not always, the back 4 that has to be relied upon to defend.....it becomes an issue, at times, before it gets to them.....they say your first line of defence is up front, but mainly we know as midfield.

The front 6 are not the biggest, and at times, we get brushed aside in midfield, this is balance too.....Pep himself made reference to his team a while back and said, we are rather on the small side....He has Rodri in there, and at times John Stones.

I am not, I emphasise NOT advocating a land of the giants team....but I am suggesting aerial balls are really important in a game, in both boxes and in the centre circle......and willing runners do have to be stopped, and a player does have to have the minerals to do that.

When we are in our swashbuckling mode, scoring 3s and 4s....these things can get overlooked, but when the going gets tough, it maybe worth a thought.

I am well aware of the terrible injuries we are facing.....but some of my comments are from times, when they have been fit.

Ps Did you notice him bring on Zaniolo, when Yates came on, Unai knew they was out to out muscle us, in the dying stages.....we have to be a bit better equipped, moving forward

Edited February 25 by TRO

[TRO]

2 hours ago, allani said:

Absolutely agree with this last point.  As I say I think it is important to recognise that our defence has been ravaged with a ridiculous number of injuries this season - I think most teams would struggle when they can barely play the same back 4 two weeks on the trot - let alone never being able to play their first choice back 4 (although it does have to be said that I am not quite sure what that would be - as I think our best defenders are probably Konsa, Mings, Pau and Digne but I'm not sure how that works as a back 4).

I think my biggest concern is probably us not winning enough aerial battles in our own box.  I was annoyed with the first goal yesterday as we've conceded in that fashion a few times now - our CBs should have won the first header and Ramsey/Ollie shouldn't have abandoned their defensive duties until the ball had been cleared.  Apart from that I think we were pretty good defensively.  Cash made one bad error - but apart from that the defensive line worked well.  I have to admit that my little river dropped out so I missed the Elanga chance (although on the replays I think it's far from certain that Emi wouldn't have dealt with that had he not put the shot wide).  The other "big" chance that we gave up when the player sliced the ball miles wide was almost certainly offside.

Last season we had one of the best defensive records in the league - I don't think that we've suddenly abandoned our defensive duties.  We're missing a strong aerial presence and we're struggling with a ridiculous number of injuries across our back line.  I don't know that Liverpool, Man City or Arsenal would cope with missing so many defenders for so much of the season.

Spot on.

That my biggest concern too, not my only concern, but as you say, the biggest. I am aware my comments are aimed at where we are weak, not why.

Look, attacking wise, we are up there, with the big boys, we score and create some great goals, our attacking play is impressive......Its in my view, our forte...so I am not dismissing that either.

I hope you are right, because, last season taking in the difficult start.... our goals against was in amongst Arsenal, Man U and Liverpools records.....Man City and Newcastle was a lot less.

Its not my intention to moan about it, as that would be ungrateful, for a great season so far.....it's just pin pointing where we can improve.

I am confident, that UE will have it on his agenda, to eradicate the silly goals.....its just WIP, I guess.

 

Edited February 25 by TRO

[allani]

20 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't.....I think I have seen traits of it at Old Trafford away, Chelsea in the cup, and other games.....sure, maybe I study the defensive side, more than some, and pick up on it.

Its all well and good in playing the offside trap, but as you have alluded to, when a player lapses, it means the runners are not being tracked, and the lInesman, becomes a foe....we are then wide open.

Its not always, the back 4 that has to be relied upon to defend.....it becomes an issue, at times, before it gets to them.....they say your first line of defence is up front, but mainly we know as midfield.

The front 6 are not the biggest, and at times, we get brushed aside in midfield, this is balance too.....Pep himself made reference to his team a while back and said, we are rather on the small side....He has Rodri in there, and at times John Stones.

I am not, I emphasise NOT advocating a land of the giants team....but I am suggesting aerial balls are really important in a game, in both boxes and in the centre circle......and willing runners do have to be stopped, and a player does have to have the minerals to do that.

When we are in our swashbuckling mode, scoring 3s and 4s....these things can get overlooked, but when the going gets tough, it maybe worth a thought.

I am well aware of the terrible injuries we are facing.....but some of my comments are from times, when they have been fit.

Ps Did you notice him bring on Zaniolo, when Yates came on, Unai knew they was out to out muscle us, in the dying stages.....we have to be a bit better equipped, moving forward

Our defensive stats were pretty good last season.  That said I do think a new RCB and a new DM would be high on my list of priorities (discounting FFP) - we have really good options for attacking CMs (especially with Buendia coming back) but at times could benefit from having more "robust" midfield with Kamara, Luiz and a DCM who can lap up pressure better.  I think we needed that DCM before Kamara was injured but it's probably even more important now.

[TRO]

38 minutes ago, allani said:

Or even Mings.  I think it is fair to say that Mings, Pau, Konsa and Lenglet are all better with the ball at their feet than they are in the air.  (I've lost confidence that Carlos is good on the deck or in the air).

I agree.....but I do think Mings is the best of the bunch in the air.....just not at the other end of the pitch.

[allani]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Spot on.

That my biggest concern too, not my only concern, but as you say, the biggest. I am aware my comments are aimed at where we are weak, not why.

Look, attacking wise, we are up there, with the big boys, we score and create some great goals, our attacking play is impressive......Its in my view, our forte...so I am not dismissing that either.

I hope you are right, because, last season taking in the difficult start.... our goals against was in amongst Arsenal, Man U and Liverpools records.....Man City and Newcastle was a lot less.

Its not my intention to moan about it, as that would be ungrateful, for a great season so far.....it's just pin pointing where we can improve.

I am confident, that UE will have it on his agenda, to eradicate the silly goals.....its just WIP, I gues.

 

Yeah I think we generally are in the same boat here.  Before the season started I was hoping for 7th place having been in / around the fight for European places all season.  Losing Ty (and in my opinion to a lesser degree Buendia) before the first 45 minutes of the season were complete meant that became a much bigger challenge.  We were always going to have a smaller squad than those around us.  The fact that we've been able to cope (so far!) with so many key injuries and that players like Lenglet have really stepped up to the mark is incredible.  Hopefully, if we can get Konsa and Carlos back and if Pau just needs a bit of wrapping up in cotton wool every now and again - then we can cope and iron out some of the wrinkles.

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, allani said:

Our defensive stats were pretty good last season.  That said I do think a new RCB and a new DM would be high on my list of priorities (discounting FFP) - we have really good options for attacking CMs (especially with Buendia coming back) but at times could benefit from having more "robust" midfield with Kamara, Luiz and a DCM who can lap up pressure better.  I think we needed that DCM before Kamara was injured but it's probably even more important now.

I think to have one, standout CDM in a squad of 25 is an area for improvement.

I see Dougie as an 8 not a 6.....but that's just me.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, allani said:

Yeah I think we generally are in the same boat here.  Before the season started I was hoping for 7th place having been in / around the fight for European places all season.  Losing Ty (and in my opinion to a lesser degree Buendia) before the first 45 minutes of the season were complete meant that became a much bigger challenge.  We were always going to have a smaller squad than those around us.  The fact that we've been able to cope (so far!) with so many key injuries and that players like Lenglet have really stepped up to the mark is incredible.  Hopefully, if we can get Konsa and Carlos back and if Pau just needs a bit of wrapping up in cotton wool every now and again - then we can cope and iron out some of the wrinkles.

very much so.

I was hoping for 6th/7th too....so, so far my expectations have been superceded.....I am not in any way unhappy, at our offensive play, on the contrary " over the moon"

I think Pau, will be fine, as long as we know what to expect from him, and it won't be a replica of Tarkowski.....Pau makes our team tick, in the way we play.....He is not going to be a Laursen.( but I would like one)

but someone has to do the ugly work, as idealistically distasteful that is......we all want to be on the front foot, waxing lyrical about our goal scoring exploits.....if only football was that simple.....opponents do have a say in the game ( me being cynical)

We have to be a squad, who are equipped for all eventualities....that may mean ideally, horses for courses, against selected opposition.....the notion of a first 11, I think we have left that skin behind......we have to pick the right gun, for the battle.

I hear the cry, " where will he fit in, where will he play"......I think that is a thing of the past, where we are heading....sure there will emerge players, who are undroppable, due to their crucial effect on the team....but rotation will be the norm.

If we extrapolate our points running rate, we will finish on 76 points...who could not see that as phenomenal, and with the injuries, incredible.

We all know, there will be some more bumps in the road, but despite my observations, I am still so, so happy with what UE has done, overall.

Edited February 25 by TRO

[rjw63]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

The team that take points off us, when we outplay them.

[Lochheads twin]

Not sure what you guys got up to in the 3 weeks I was away. We get knocked out of the FA Cup and lose to the two pretenders!

We get a responsible adult back in the Holte and its business as normal again! 

An important win today and nice to see United's form finally catch up with them. Lots of good performances across the park. SJM, Bailey, Luis and Ollie. The defence are doing ok, considering every time they line up there is another change. Lets hope Torres being substituted was purely precautionary. Whilst he may not be the answer to our centre back problems, is Courtney Hause nearing fitness? 

Man of the match was a difficult call. Bailey caused panic every time he took the ball towards their goal and Dougie is unlucky not to get it with his two goals. However, I went for our captain. He played a part in at least 2 of the goals and helped steady the ship when we let them back into the game. Forest are definitely a team with attacking potential and a pub defence!.

I felt Moreno and Ramsey are not performing at previous high levels,  especially going forward. Not sure if the defensive issues are reining them in and they are trying not to get caught further up the pitch. 

With only 12 games to go we need to keep churning out these performance against sides we would expect to beat, this then also applies pressure on the chasing pack. The match against Spuds is going to be huge!

UTV

 

[Talldarkandransome]

Anyone know why Clattenburg might have been at VP yesterday, saw him at New St after too

[NeilS]

Just now, Talldarkandransome said:

Anyone know why Clattenburg might have been at VP yesterday, saw him at New St after too

I think I read that he is working with Forest as an advisor. 

[Talldarkandransome]

Just now, NeilS said:

I think I read that he is working with Forest as an advisor. 

Thats going well then

[NeilS]

My thoughts after watching the highlights. It looks like we have found our attacking mojo again and could have bagged a few more goals, albeit we looked a bit suspect at the back.

The defensive frailties I can understand with the injuries we have in the back four. Hopefully Torres and Konsa will be back together soon, and I can start being more confident about our top 4 and Europa Conference League challenge.

[thunderball]

Someone has summarised the liquid football:

 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, AVTuco said:

We are missing our main defensive player in Konsa though. And another in Mings. Carlos is supposed to be defensive too, but he's not very good.

He was there at United Away, and Chelsea and Newcastle, United at home.

I agree, it doesn't help and Mings is a massive miss.

so why do we expect to finish 4th, with so many injuries?

Edited February 25 by TRO

[allani]

44 minutes ago, Talldarkandransome said:

Anyone know why Clattenburg might have been at VP yesterday, saw him at New St after too

Apparently Forest have employed him to provide advice about how referees will / should interpret different laws and to explain why certain decisions will have been made during matches.

The downside to doing this is that there seems to be little consistency between referees / VAR officials in the areas where a referee's insight would be useful.

[allani]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

He was there at United Away, and Chelsea and Newcastle, United at home.

I agree, it doesn't help and Mings is a massive miss.

so why do we expect to finish 4th, with so many injuries?

That's easy.  Because Emery is a warlock.

[tinker]

10 minutes ago, TRO said:

He was there at United Away, and Chelsea and Newcastle, United at home.

I agree, it doesn't help and Mings is a massive miss.

so why do we expect to finish 4th, with so many injuries?

Tbh I don't think most of us do, it's going to be battle until the very end for 4th and we will most likely drop down to 5th again during that battle.

We do need our defensive play looking at especially from high balls, free headers will cost us goals, even if players aren't capable of getting to the ball they need to be challenging the opposition and making it more difficult to direct their headers.

We are looking at getting better and this is an area of weakness that needs addressing for us to get where we want to be, title challengers.

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, tinker said:

Tbh I don't think most of us do, it's going to be battle until the very end for 4th and we will most likely drop down to 5th again during that battle.

We do need our defensive play looking at especially from high balls, free headers will cost us goals, even if players aren't capable of getting to the ball they need to be challenging the opposition and making it more difficult to direct their headers.

We are looking at getting better and this is an area of weakness that needs addressing for us to get where we want to be, title challengers.

Thanks for acknowledging it like Allani has, too.

I just think it can be frustrating, when we are cruising, as we was at Old Trafford too....and we just concede such easily concocted goals.....I nearly laughed/ cried with the simplicity.

For me, its compounded by a reluctance to talk about it.....particularly after anxiety passed through the crowd, at 3-2, where some thought, "here we go again"....I would say the 4th was a roar of sheer relief.

I think this trait of letting teams back in, deserves more interest and debate, than it gets.

When we lose we wonder why, and yet the possibilities are staring at us, from the games when we win.....but we only seem want to talk about the goals for column.

Edited February 25 by TRO

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, allani said:

That's easy.  Because Emery is a warlock.

but not a ......