Jas10 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 48 minutes ago, DJBOB said: Because I think we as Villa fans associate every decision to be made to affect this season and this season only. If Unai believes he can make UCL without Dendoncker, then he will be trusted to do so. Clearly didn't rate him. Unai and Monchi are planning and using the transfers not just for this season but for the next 1-3 seasons as well. Whereas, previously, we would have held onto Dendoncker for cover, paid him his wages, played him for maybe 180 more minutes in total for the remainder of the season with a relatively dissatisfied player, we're taking our chances elsewhere. Not only does it allow us to move an unmotivated player with potentially a fee that would have been lower in the summer had he more or less not played for a whole season, it allows Unai the opportunity to either use players like Tim or reorganize other players in the double pivot (McGinn/Tielemans/etc) and use different players that weren't getting a lot of playing time elsewhere (Zaniolo, Duran, etc) So I'm not saying we won't replace him, but it is not a guarantee that just because Dendoncker left means there will definitely be a replacement coming in. Much like the hand wringing over selling Danny Ings last winter, Unai was comfortable with the squad we had and made an astounding return to Europe. If he's comfortable enough with the squad even with the Dendoncker departure, so be it. Letting Dendoncker go also has a good knock on effect that Unai and Co. will listen to the players (within reason) and if they want playing time, much like JPB, then they can take their chance somewhere else if they're not rated highly here. So we don't run into situations like bomb squads. If you're at Villa, then you're here to compete for a spot. If you want to play for another club, then go for it but it's not because you deserved to be in the Villa Starting XI and the manager didn't rate you. I agree about looking into the future and future seasons, I think it’s unfair to assume all/most Villa fans have short term thinking though… there’s more to it than that. And it’s obvious that with signings like Nedeljkovic, that is what we are doing… We can’t really compare last season with this one either… we’ve consistently been in the top 4 (2!) and are trying to get into the CL… it’s not short term thinking to want to put ourselves in the strongest position to go and qualify for that (it’s a huge opportunity, especially when other clubs or “the regulars” are struggling a bit or having an “off season”… we will surely be attempting to exploit it) and it’s something that could be transformative for the club… it might be more difficult to achieve that in future if we don’t manage to do it now… But, at the same time, we can’t overreact and be negative if we don’t manage it either and realise that there is a long term plan and the intent is to keep moving onwards and upwards… a period of sustained success and stability that can hopefully last… I just don’t think the plan is to weaken the squad or be scared of FFP rn, and although I know we can only read so much into Unai’s comments… that hasn’t been the indication either. I got the impression that we will look to improve and add but need to offload players to do so in this window - which we are doing. And we’re only interested in players that can have the right impact and make us stronger… We only need to look back at the last few games and how difficult we found it (and how our performances dropped) with Kamara suspended aswell as the other injuries/knocks such as Pau and Tielemans… This is a major opportunity and I don’t believe Unai and Monchi are taking it lightly, I am sure the intent is to bring players in to make us stronger while being intelligent and keeping transfer spend reasonable (sending players out offsets that, esp the wages)… Why would we “increase the struggle” by trying to shift players around and hoping for no more injuries, suspensions etc? Less square pegs in round holes, it hasn’t really benefited us when we’ve had to do that… Edited January 24 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 26 minutes ago, Jas10 said: We can’t really compare last season with this one either… we’ve consistently been in the top 4 (2!) We can compare because we were in that form table last season after Emery joined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Jas10 said: I agree about looking into the future and future seasons, I think it’s unfair to assume all/most Villa fans have short term thinking though… there’s more to it than that. And it’s obvious that with signings like Nedeljkovic, that is what we are doing… We can’t really compare last season with this one either… we’ve consistently been in the top 4 (2!) and are trying to get into the CL… it’s not short term thinking to want to put ourselves in the strongest position to go and qualify for that (it’s a huge opportunity, especially when other clubs or “the regulars” are struggling a bit or having an “off season”… we will surely be attempting to exploit it) and it’s something that could be transformative for the club… it might be more difficult to achieve that in future if we don’t manage to do it now… But, at the same time, we can’t overreact and be negative if we don’t manage it either and realise that there is a long term plan and the intent is to keep moving onwards and upwards… a period of sustained success and stability that can hopefully last… I just don’t think the plan is to weaken the squad or be scared of FFP rn, and although I know we can only read so much into Unai’s comments… that hasn’t been the indication either. I got the impression that we will look to improve and add but need to offload players to do so in this window - which we are doing. And we’re only interested in players that can have the right impact and make us stronger… We only need to look back at the last few games and how difficult we found it (and how our performances dropped) with Kamara suspended aswell as the other injuries/knocks such as Pau and Tielemans… This is a major opportunity and I don’t believe Unai and Monchi are taking it lightly, I am sure the intent is to bring players in to make us stronger while being intelligent and keeping transfer spend reasonable (sending players out offsets that, esp the wages)… Why would we “increase the struggle” by trying to shift players around and hoping for no more injuries, suspensions etc? Less square pegs in round holes, it hasn’t really benefited us when we’ve had to do that… But again that’s your presumption that the removal of Dendoncker is weakening the squad. Unai might not think so. A lot of others thought the same thing when Ings was sold last year. A weakening of the squad with just a 19 year old bought in as replacement. For me - it would be nice to have another DM specialist but at what wages and how frequently are they going to play. Are we going to pay 75k in wages to someone who will play less than 300 minutes in all comps? If Unai thinks we can get by without or with a mix of other players, then I don’t see a reason why not. The winter window, through far more bad examples than good, is notorious for being difficult so don’t be surprised if we don’t strengthen or replace. Edited January 24 by DJBOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 10 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: We can compare because we were in that form table last season after Emery joined. We were pushing for ECL then… we are pushing for CL now… that’s the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, Jas10 said: We were pushing for ECL then… we are pushing for CL now… that’s the difference. The form is the same 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) For context, and their squads are much more established but they operate the same in theory - City and Liverpool are generally quiet in the winter windows as well. City, in particular, usually sign young prospects in the winter window. Liverpool agreed on fees before the window even opened for VVD and Gakpo. Diaz was their only aberration as a big purchase in the winter window. Edited January 24 by DJBOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, DJBOB said: But again that’s your presumption that the removal of Dendoncker is weakening the squad. Unai might not think so. A lot of others thought the same thing when Ings was sold last year. A weakening of the squad with just a 19 year old bought in as replacement. For me - it would be nice to have another DM specialist but at what wages and how frequently are they going to play. Are we going to pay 75k in wages to someone who will play less than 300 minutes in all comps? If Unai thinks we can get by without or with a mix of other players, then I don’t see a reason why not. The winter window, through far more bad examples than good, is notorious for being difficult so don’t be surprised if we don’t strengthen or replace. We’re just gonna have to agree to disagree but I respect your points… and see some of the logic. My personal view is that we weren’t willing to let anyone go right now unless a replacement - an upgrade or more suitable player in that position, could be brought in. Not just anyone, not a “body” but a player who fits more with Unai’s methods and style.. Plenty we could/can do in the summer, even if “cost cutting” was needed… we are in a really positive moment right now, let’s not let it dissipate or risk that happening… We will have to see… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: The form is the same I’ve already explained… not what I’m talking about.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Just now, Jas10 said: We’re just gonna have to agree to disagree but I respect your points… and see some of the logic. My personal view is that we weren’t willing to let anyone go right now unless a replacement - an upgrade or more suitable player in that position, could be brought in. Not just anyone, not a “body” but a player who fits more with Unai’s methods and style.. Plenty we could/can do in the summer, even if “cost cutting” was needed… we are in a really positive moment right now, let’s not let it dissipate or risk that happening… We will have to see… Yeah I think people are nervous about the run of results but for me, that was more injuries and form more than anything. And also maybe a come down from what had been potentially being in the title race. Unai has said all along that the UCL is the goal and we are well positioned to maintain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) Full faith and trust in Unai, and in Monchi to support him… Whatever is decided will be fine… but, I’m not giving up on any signings - why? Makes no sense… There is still time until the window closes… and why would I after comments like this (add Dendoncker to the list of “examples”)? Quote "Some players can leave, for example two players, Bertrand Traore and Calum Chambers and in case that situation happens we can think to add one or two players in the squad. The players we have now, we want to help and support right now." Again, it sounds like one out - one in. Not, one out and we carry on and continue depleting the squad… At the very least, we are looking… Nothing has been ruled out… Quote 'We are analysing and meeting (transfer chief) Monchi and the owners to discuss how we can improve and change something in the squad,' Emery explained. 'I am very happy, we may change something but not 100 per cent. Quote 'We are going to do it only if we can get something to really help. We are going to be alert in case we have the possibility to add to our squad. We are happy and with the players we have we are getting good results. I don't know if we will do anything or not.' Quote "Last year was very, very different because we had other circumstances and we had in the squad different circumstances with some players," Emery explained. "We decided more to let some players leave than sign players. This year is not the same because we have some players who are injured and we are playing in the Europa Conference League. "I am thinking not a lot about it because maybe one or two players could leave, maybe but it's not clear. If we are trying to get someone it is really because we are very convinced he is going to increase our level in the squad. It is not very clear in the January window to get it." Quote "We have to accept the rules and accept that if we want to sign someone, one has to leave on our list in the squad," Emery said. "For financial fair play, we will need to accept the rules and how we are. "They (the owners) want to invest more and more but accept the rules and accept financial fair play. We are trying to be intelligent in our transfer windows. We are trying to improve our squad with some players and if we can't do it now, we can think of the next transfer window in the summer." Considering we’ve just spent money on Nedeljkovic and now let Dendoncker go, as well as bidding on Morgan Rogers, there’s absolutely no reason or justification to definitively rule out any signings… much is dependent on interest and offers in the players we’d like to offload… and the availability of players we have a genuine interest in… No signings for the sake of it but if we can add something to help us, we’ll at least try… Edited January 24 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 4 hours ago, brommy said: Finally! It took me a while, but I had to go through all the letters. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 We also can consider and acknowledge that we have a team in fourth place, just over half way through. I understand the excitement and wanting to do what we can to ensure a successful season, as would Unai, we all want the highest possible finish. My view is that our squad is composed of a great balance. Between youth and experience level. Between technical ability and physicality. Unai is now instilling the tactical, which has given confidence, and a winning mentality. Great formula for success, and for a time to come as we can continue to build on these qualities. This squad has made a statement, it's an exciting time for all. Fourth. More importantly competitive in the games we did let slip of recent, dominant even. We are fine margins away from top of the mountain and first place. Had we seen out United.. Made other teams pay for the territory we had in possession.. Still we are fourth, GD keeps us from second. I feel it would be good to temper excitement and consider that what we have is capable already. It is. Equally as great as it would be to strengthen, it would be great if we missed out due to poor decision making. The way it's going, that would more likely come in the form of compromising the talent already establishing us as force, due to poor recruitment that disrupts what we've achieved and can continue to. There will always be risk so let's have a little faith in what's going on right now and not assume that if we opt for a more modest approach in this window, that it's a catastrophe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Anything other than doing everything we can to the maximum extent to secure CL football isn’t acceptable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 12 minutes ago, A'Villan said: We also can consider and acknowledge that we have a team in fourth place, just over half way through. I understand the excitement and wanting to do what we can to ensure a successful season, as would Unai, we all want the highest possible finish. My view is that our squad is composed of a great balance. Between youth and experience level. Between technical ability and physicality. Unai is now instilling the tactical, which has given confidence, and a winning mentality. Great formula for success, and for a time to come as we can continue to build on these qualities. This squad has made a statement, it's an exciting time for all. Fourth. More importantly competitive in the games we did let slip of recent, dominant even. We are fine margins away from top of the mountain and first place. Had we seen out United.. Made other teams pay for the territory we had in possession.. Still we are fourth, GD keeps us from second. I feel it would be good to temper excitement and consider that what we have is capable already. It is. Equally as great as it would be to strengthen, it would be great if we missed out due to poor decision making. The way it's going, that would more likely come in the form of compromising the talent already establishing us as force, due to poor recruitment that disrupts what we've achieved and can continue to. There will always be risk so let's have a little faith in what's going on right now and not assume that if we opt for a more modest approach in this window, that it's a catastrophe. Fair but… being capable depends on a number of factors. Capable when everyone is fit, available and hitting form under this world class manager and coach? Sure Capable if we continue to struggle with injuries and suspensions and players struggling for form? Not quite so much… Personally, I am trying to see where we can improve in the squad and address any (potential) deficiencies… and we are limited by what and how much we can do in this particular window so we have to prioritise… As ever, all we can do here is share opinions and theorise… the real plans are known only to Unai and his close colleagues… So… I feel quite strongly (and have had this opinion for a while) that we are short in central midfield, mainly in a defensive sense. This squad lacks more defensive and resilient (in that sense) options and I’m sure others like @TRO would continue to back me up on that… it’s more of an issue with Dendoncker leaving now too who is a player I had always wished we would upgrade on… we can’t solely rely on Kamara… there is no other player in the squad who is similar or can do what he does in quite the way that he does it… still with me? sorry… We need a DM basically… Now… we have players who have shown versatility but we’ve also seen that their game suffers or drops when they are played out of their best or preferred positions… we lose something when that happens. The team doesn’t perform as well and isn’t as effective - we’ve seen it. I don’t need to delve much deeper into this as it has been clearly evident and is often highlighted or even complained about… To keep doing well, we need to play our better players in their best positions so they can bring their best and help the team in the optimum way… rather than shift them around, fill holes/gaps and lose the elements that make us such a great team… Unai has done that when he has been able to… but he hasn’t been afforded that luxury enough… It’s been tough ever since the season began (and before with the injuries to JJ and Moreno) in terms of setbacks and problem solving… Losing Mings and Buendia were blows but the form of Pau and Konsa, Bailey and (more recently until his injury) Tielemans has countered that to some degree but… it’s more that Unai has stood up to the task and overcome the adversity imo… what an incredible job he has done and continues to do… but imagine what he can do with a bit more help and some luck… We can admire what we’ve achieved so far but shouldn’t be complacent… a lot depends on hypotheticals too… IF said player overcomes injury, IF said player hits form and so on and so forth… I can’t see anyone losing faith… if we can’t have faith now and in this manager… when can we? But… especially while we are waiting for the next game… we will ponder, reflect and theorise on how things might go, how we could improve etc. etc. Back to the DM or midfield point… our options now are CM Luiz DM Kamara LM Ramsey RM McGinn (can also cover centrally but not where we have seen his best form this season) Diaby, Bailey and Zaniolo can fill in on the wings or wide roles… but who else do we have centrally and, more importantly, defensively??? The reliance on Bouba has become quite extreme… until/unless we add at least one player to address that… and I almost expect us to… Tielemans has become more of an attacking player, proving most effective when supporting Watkins rather than in central midfield where he has not impressed so far (and was especially poor during/near the start of the season, including that terrible loss and performance while partnered by Dendoncker vs Everton in the League Cup loss). I hope, with improved sharpness, fitness, form and confidence that he will prove adept and perform well back in midfield again but… he’s not a defensive player. Playing Luiz as a DM (or resting him) nullifies our creativity and attacking prowess… We’ve seen how much we’ve struggled in ECL against relatively weaker teams and had to bring him on to change games when he was supposed to be rested… We are really light and short in midfield… players can cover other positions but we are relying on them to stay fit and do unfamiliar/undesired roles in that sense… it’s a lot to ask… a lot to demand of the same players… and we have a lot of games to play… There are other examples but this post is long enough as is… I’m happy with whatever Unai decides to do but I won’t rule anything out at this point and am hopeful that we are making moves and there is at least the intent to go into the rest of the season with a stronger squad than what we had before the window opened… Just my view, opinion and hope… Can only repeat what I’ve said before… we have a wonderful opportunity ahead of us and can achieve something special this season, make a mark… but it’s not just about this season either… we want a rosy and successful future… managing to qualify for CL would be astounding, transformative and a huge boost along the way… and allow us to progress even faster (increase exposure ans appeal, revenue, target and attract a higher calibre of player, get better deals etc. etc.) Anyway, we all have our differing views and should be free to have them… Regardless I’m sure we want the same thing in the end… UTV! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan95 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 I'm sure that we will be doing all we can in this window. Emery is someone who's always looking to improve and never content. How much we can do in terms of FFP is probably the question but we are clearly trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 27 minutes ago, paul514 said: Anything other than doing everything we can to the maximum extent to secure CL football isn’t acceptable. I agree to the extent that we have to be mindful of FFP and sustainability rules, so whatever we are capable of within that capacity right now… We can’t take massive risks and endanger our future or the health of the club… The problem is… none of us really know where we stand in that regard… we are all just guessing… But… spending on Nedeljkovic and bidding for Rogers (aswell as that young GK) indicates that we are not as restricted some may have led others to believe… and… we’re also managing to transfer players out which, at least according to Unai’s comments, allows and gives us the capacity to bring players in so… I’m at least hopeful… I guess others are suggesting that we can put up a sustained fight for CL football in future seasons with the progress we’ve made, trajectory we’re on and manager we have… but I don’t think it’s a simple, easy or clear-cut as that… there are a lot of factors to consider and that will be in play… We kind of need to go for it while being sensible and “safe” at the same time… but not go crazy… The sooner we achieve our immediate objectives, the sooner we can rise even higher… Anyway… none of us here are saying or discussing anything that Unai and co won’t have already considered… ultimately, we are in safe hands and have no need to question anything… But it’s fine to theorise… just don’t like it when we try to definitively rule things out when we can’t have the knowledge or authority to do so… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 3 minutes ago, villan95 said: I'm sure that we will be doing all we can in this window. Emery is someone who's always looking to improve and never content. How much we can do in terms of FFP is probably the question but we are clearly trying. I think you’ve simplified it as well as possible there… the only real/major hindrance is that dreaded FFP… Ambition is high and Unai will keep pushing us… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 As for Iroegbunam, we’ve barely seen him this season and having so much faith in a young player who has hardly been involved in first team games and to “step up” to the expected/required degree right now seems like a big ask and unrealistic expectation in the short term… and also quite sudden or impulsive… Losing Dendoncker (who we already needed to improve on) has opened the gap up even more… this squad lacks defensive options and prowess, it lacks physicality and aerial ability… we look great in other departments but why continue with those “weaknesses” no matter how small they may appear to be… We can’t keep playing the same players over and over again and shifting them into different roles/positions while expecting them to play consistently well and not get burnt out, exhausted, injured or suspended… some of them, especially McGinn, rely on energy to perform well too and are essential for us… I haven’t even discussed our attacking options, but midfield depth is where we are lacking most imo… I’m hopeful that we will have players returning and hitting form after injuries (hopefully this short break/rest will have done a heap of good) and improving after struggling for form (really looking forward to it)… but… we simply don’t have the numbers in midfield… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 16 hours ago, Jas10 said: That can’t be correct Klopp has never spent a penny 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSvillain Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 3 hours ago, mikeyp102 said: That can’t be correct Klopp has never spent a penny That just nets off to the coutinho money from what I’ve been told 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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