Adam2003 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Mods, sorry, I looked for a set piece thread but I didn’t see one. Hope this is ok. I thought about the Austin McPhee thread but I’m not sure he’s coaching set pieces now apparently…? Just thinking - I watched Stevenage’s winner against us and thought “that’s a freak goal to concede” - and then with Arsenal’s second today, and multiple other attempts, I realised it isn’t. Teams have figured out that our zonal marking means that if someone just stands on the edge of our area, we leave then completely unmarked. If you just work the corner to them, they can shoot at their leisure, and it’s now cost us at least a couple of goals in the last six weeks. Am I missing something? Surely someone little like Coutinho could at least go and stand in that person’s way without disrupting our entire defence? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermon Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, Adam2003 said: Mods, sorry, I looked for a set piece thread but I didn’t see one. Hope this is ok. I thought about the Austin McPhee thread but I’m not sure he’s coaching set pieces now apparently…? Just thinking - I watched Stevenage’s winner against us and thought “that’s a freak goal to concede” - and then with Arsenal’s second today, and multiple other attempts, I realised it isn’t. Teams have figured out that our zonal marking means that if someone just stands on the edge of our area, we leave then completely unmarked. If you just work the corner to them, they can shoot at their leisure, and it’s now cost us at least a couple of goals in the last six weeks. Am I missing something? Surely someone little like Coutinho could at least go and stand in that person’s way without disrupting our entire defence? Totally agree with this, really annoying seeing opposition players in acres of space at the edge of the box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, supermon said: Totally agree with this, really annoying seeing opposition players in acres of space at the edge of the box The odd thing is I thought that Stevenage winner was a disgrace from our players but now it seems like they defended it exactly how they have been told to. I wonder if there’s just a stat that suggests those players won’t score and so they can be ignored - but it doesn’t seem to be working for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted February 18, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2023 Maybe wd should hire a set piece coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bazmonkey Posted February 18, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2023 Been saying it for weeks Why do we have 10 players back. Just invites the oppo on and we have no outlet when we clear. Shocking way of defending, only a matter of time before a team capitalises on it and today they did 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Our players stand around too much. They should've been out so much quicker to close Zinchenko down.. Instead he gets a shot away and it goes through Kamara and Watkins and basically unsaveable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 The irony is that they all spot the danger. Villa typically defend corners with 3 zonal front post players (short - in this case Coutinho, Watkins front post, and Mings central) and go man for man at the back post. Moreno will typically mark the open area at the top of the box but when worked with a short corner, has to commit so Coutinho isn’t on a 2v1. Without knowing exact instructions, I would say that it’s redundant to have Watkins do a frontal zone marking with two opponents in the corner and two at the top of the box. But Watkins is afraid to peel off because that’s how City scored their corner against us. Villa need to do better sussing this short corner routine out but they are overly concerned on the two possibilities (opponent flashing in front of Watkins vs open shot at the top of the box) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, DJBOB said: The irony is that they all spot the danger. Villa typically defend corners with 3 zonal front post players (short - in this case Coutinho, Watkins front post, and Mings central) and go man for man at the back post. Moreno will typically mark the open area at the top of the box but when worked with a short corner, has to commit so Coutinho isn’t on a 2v1. Without knowing exact instructions, I would say that it’s redundant to have Watkins do a frontal zone marking with two opponents in the corner and two at the top of the box. But Watkins is afraid to peel off because that’s how City scored their corner against us. Villa need to do better sussing this short corner routine out but they are overly concerned on the two possibilities (opponent flashing in front of Watkins vs open shot at the top of the box) If we had one maybe two players in between Zinchenko and their keeper the two Arse players who are edge of our box have to drop off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said: If we had one maybe two players in between Zinchenko and their keeper the two Arse players who are edge of our box have to drop off. True as well. There are different ways of approaching it certainly. I do think this is the worst way of defending it but it’s mainly down to assignment confusion. City for example, typically will defend with all 10 men back as well but their assignments are spot on. Im not entirely sure what their goal is here. Emi is good at claiming so it really is redundant to have Watkins and Mings in the same area. Mings should take the front, Watkins (or Bailey or whoever is pacey or can hold the ball) should be at the halfway line to drag out their defender, Emi claims anything in the middle and man mark the back post. Edited February 18, 2023 by DJBOB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbcuk Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 It’s annoying we bring every player back, we should at least have one on the half way line incase we can get a quick counter as been plenty of times this season when we could have done this when Martinez has come and collected the ball, but nothing is there to release to 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) The more I think about it, it really is befuddling to me. It’s one thing if you have a keeper like Lloris or De Gea who are notoriously not good at claiming. Then you do need to have lots of bodies in the box to defend. But one of Emi’s strengths is claiming so why have both so many zonal markers as well as man markers and no one out front? Edited February 18, 2023 by DJBOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Compare it to our lockdown set piece defending and you can see it’s more zonal, which honestly makes more sense given Emi’s claiming capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 24 minutes ago, DJBOB said: The irony is that they all spot the danger. Villa typically defend corners with 3 zonal front post players (short - in this case Coutinho, Watkins front post, and Mings central) and go man for man at the back post. Moreno will typically mark the open area at the top of the box but when worked with a short corner, has to commit so Coutinho isn’t on a 2v1. Without knowing exact instructions, I would say that it’s redundant to have Watkins do a frontal zone marking with two opponents in the corner and two at the top of the box. But Watkins is afraid to peel off because that’s how City scored their corner against us. Villa need to do better sussing this short corner routine out but they are overly concerned on the two possibilities (opponent flashing in front of Watkins vs open shot at the top of the box) This was the camera angle that made me start the thread. You can see 2 or 3 of them point at him knowing he’s in a dangerous place - but the ‘system’ means no-one is tasked to just go and stop it happening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 The defending yet again from a short corner was disgraceful. Poor concentration, or lack of effort or both. Either way it's awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 The Rodri goal last week was worse than the corner yesterday. That was amateur stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 19 hours ago, VillaChris said: Our players stand around too much. They should've been out so much quicker to close Zinchenko down.. Instead he gets a shot away and it goes through Kamara and Watkins and basically unsaveable. It was a crap goal to concede. No closing, somehow megs Watkins etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 16 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said: The defending yet again from a short corner was disgraceful. Poor concentration, or lack of effort or both. Either way it's awful. This is my point though, I don’t think it’s either of those things. I think they’re very directly following instructions on where to be for our zonal marking setup, and those instructions don’t take short corners into account. Which is actually more of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 19, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) On 18/02/2023 at 15:51, Bazmonkey said: Been saying it for weeks Why do we have 10 players back. Just invites the oppo on and we have no outlet when we clear. Shocking way of defending, only a matter of time before a team capitalises on it and today they did Been doing it for years under multiple managers. I just don't understand it. Simple maths, you leave 1 up front, they have to leave 2 back and probably a third shallower than otherwise. Simple intuition, the ball breaks out there is someone there to potentially get hold of it or to pressure the defender who gets hold of it. None up front and it's always and easily coming straight back at you. Edited February 19, 2023 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 In advance of Dyche ball, hopefully Villa go back to zonal marking during our best defensive showings (Arsenal lockdown above) compared to the half zonal/half man we play now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 On 18/02/2023 at 15:42, AVTuco said: Maybe wd should hire a set piece coach. If they ignore McPhee’s instructions what can he do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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