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Individuals or the coach? What's our "style"?


jimmygreaves
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Every game that passes it's the same story.

Watkins poor, McGinn off the pace, Mings at fault again, etc, etc...

Yet these same players, and others, have performed to levels high enough to be selected for national teams. They achieved this whilst playing for us. Another case in point is Martinez.

Players perform well when those around them are playing well too. It's an old adage that it's easier to give regular 8/10 performances with "better" players around you.

When Gerrard first came in we needed to stabilise and stop conceding. We had a strong playing tactic. Keep it tight through the middle, force attacks out wide and work hard. This was clear. The players understood, bought into it and, on the whole, performed.

The last 5 games or so this has changed. Our "style" seems uncertain at best, undefined at worst. I don't believe this is the fault of the players. To that end I think criticism of the players is very unfair. To my eyes there's no plan at the moment. I'm not sure the players know what's expected of them.

The last few games it's been evident that defenders don't know what their out-ball is. Nobody in midfield seems to show to receive a pass. 

Back under Smith there was lots of interplay with the defenders and midfield, notably with Luiz. This seems to have dissolved and the punt forward appears to be in vogue now. Not good!

Biggest concern for me is the performance level of Martinez has fallen off a cliff. What's happened? Have the previous training methods been upended, is he being asked not to challenge for crosses??? It's baffling that a player so good is playing so poorly after only a few weeks of transition. I get that he wasn't great in the last few Smith games but recently he's looked a different player...

Anyway, back to the point (if there is one). These aren't bad players are they?

 

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We've taken a gamble in an inexperienced manager from a poor league. We'll know if it'll pay off by the summer. If it's not looking like it will, we need to be brutal. 

The players have levels above where they are, and aren't meeting them, whether that's structure, man management etc. I don't know. Time will tell. Either way if he can't get the current players playing well, we can't allow him to keep changing them on the hope that a new set will. 

Do we have the new Sherwood or the new Guardiola? 

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1 hour ago, jimmygreaves said:

Every game that passes it's the same story.

Watkins poor, McGinn off the pace, Mings at fault again, etc, etc...

Yet these same players, and others, have performed to levels high enough to be selected for national teams. They achieved this whilst playing for us. Another case in point is Martinez.

Players perform well when those around them are playing well too. It's an old adage that it's easier to give regular 8/10 performances with "better" players around you.

When Gerrard first came in we needed to stabilise and stop conceding. We had a strong playing tactic. Keep it tight through the middle, force attacks out wide and work hard. This was clear. The players understood, bought into it and, on the whole, performed.

The last 5 games or so this has changed. Our "style" seems uncertain at best, undefined at worst. I don't believe this is the fault of the players. To that end I think criticism of the players is very unfair. To my eyes there's no plan at the moment. I'm not sure the players know what's expected of them.

The last few games it's been evident that defenders don't know what their out-ball is. Nobody in midfield seems to show to receive a pass. 

Back under Smith there was lots of interplay with the defenders and midfield, notably with Luiz. This seems to have dissolved and the punt forward appears to be in vogue now. Not good!

Biggest concern for me is the performance level of Martinez has fallen off a cliff. What's happened? Have the previous training methods been upended, is he being asked not to challenge for crosses??? It's baffling that a player so good is playing so poorly after only a few weeks of transition. I get that he wasn't great in the last few Smith games but recently he's looked a different player...

Anyway, back to the point (if there is one). These aren't bad players are they?

 

Martinez may also be being affected by all his travelling to and from South America. 

Another thing about Smith is his management style where he is very player-friendly. Like he said before, you always need them to perform for you so can't be too hard on them. Maybe Gerrard is being too hard on them and they're spitting the dummy out? 

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When I come on here after a loss and see almost a full team's worth of players' individual threads being filled with the sentiment that they are poor etc then it does suggest that there's something systemically not working rather than a large number of specific players not being up to standard.

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Coach isn't the problem. It's the players we think can change but will never change. Midfield is the biggest problem. McGinn and Luiz shouldn't be first team players. They have proven time and again they're not good enough. Totally lack consistency and are the problem with this football club. 

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50 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

I'm starting to think Gerrard is expecting more from the players than they can give and not compensating for it.  

He's expecting more of players than they will ever give. We need to rebuild the midfield and we need a new core to the team. The team culture is bad, weak, lazy, inconsistent and just content to be mid table. Put effort in 60% of the games is good enough.

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Gerrard wants to play like Liverpool do. Which is great, if you have the players to do it. We don't.

It's just not working at the moment. We need to find some pragmatism and switch things around to get the best out of what is there any leave aside plans of us turning into a knock off Liverpool side.

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4 hours ago, messi11 said:

Bit of both.
West ham was in a relegation scrap with us 2 seasons ago, now they're in a top 4 battle. 90% with the same individuals 

We were in a relegation scrap 2 seasons ago as well

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4 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

I'm starting to think Gerrard is expecting more from the players than they can give and not compensating for it.  

Roy Keane syndrome

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Players don't get bad overnight.  Have to think they are having issues adapting to Gerrard's system and Gerrard tactically has not fully appreciated the level of the Premier League. 

Personally, I have a few question marks about the two number 10s and bombing fullbacks. Feel it exposes us at the back and hinders us being a possession based team (which Gerrard claims he wants to be)

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