Summer Transfer Window 2022

[allani]

1 minute ago, romavillan said:

Kamara and Luiz is two-thirds of a top half midfield for my money. Add Ramsey/Sanson or the Mighty McGinn ( not on current form) to that in a formation that's not drawn in crayon and coached by rod hull and emu you get a good midfield at this level 

Luiz is a good player but he isn't strong enough as a player or a personality to be anything other than a deep lying playmaker with two "stronger" midfielders alongside him.  He's a very good player to be able to bring on and have as cover for injuries / suspensions but he's not the "second" midfielder in a Top 10 team.

Luiz and McGinn have been two thirds of our midfield for 3 seasons and honestly the number of games where they've looked to have control in that period can probably be counted on my fingers and toes.  They weren't good enough under Smith and they aren't good enough under Gerrard.  They've not shown anything on match day that suggest that they would suddenly back good enough under Potter or Poch or Pep or Klopp.  The difference is that you'd hope that all of those four know what makes a good midfield and would find a way to put a sticking plaster over the issue until the time that they can sign the right player - but midfield would still be our main inhibiting issue until that recruitment is complete.

[The Inspiration]

2 minutes ago, allani said:

Luiz is a good player but he isn't strong enough as a player or a personality to be anything other than a deep lying playmaker with two "stronger" midfielders alongside him.  He's a very good player to be able to bring on and have as cover for injuries / suspensions but he's not the "second" midfielder in a Top 10 team.

Luiz and McGinn have been two thirds of our midfield for 3 seasons and honestly the number of games where they've looked to have control in that period can probably be counted on my fingers and toes.  They weren't good enough under Smith and they aren't good enough under Gerrard.  They've not shown anything on match day that suggest that they would suddenly back good enough under Potter or Poch or Pep or Klopp.  The difference is that you'd hope that all of those four know what makes a good midfield and would find a way to put a sticking plaster over the issue until the time that they can sign the right player - but midfield would still be our main inhibiting issue until that recruitment is complete.

This is where I am. Need a new destroyer and Luiz be the third man. 

[allani]

And following on from my post - I wouldn't be averse to trying Luiz as the third midfielder ahead of McGinn / JJ.  Certainly I could see him playing in matches against teams where we might think that the best option would be to soak up pressure and then try and hit the opposition on the break.  He'd offer a more "solid" option than JJ / McGinn.

[VillaParkAvenue]

1 hour ago, jacketspuds said:

Tielemans is probably the best we can get right now for midfield.

Can we also go in for Johnathan David or, if not him, Joao Pedro?

Then it’s a CB. A very good CB that can also lead the team.

 

Tielemans, Joao Felix and Pau Torres it is then.

[Keener window-cleaner]

I think it's a tricky one, would it really be sound to invest heavily in a player who fits our current stupid system, if that player does not fit the system if a new manager comes in? We are crying out for a top class box to box no 8, but if a new manager comes in and would play 4-2-3-1 we would rather need a holding midfielder and a left wide forward and would not have any need for the no 8.

 

[allani]

1 minute ago, The Inspiration said:

This is where I am. Need a new destroyer and Luiz be the third man. 

You pipped me to it.  But yes I could see that being a pretty effective option in certain matches.  I think I'd like JJ to play in other matches as I think he is better at breaking past our attacking players - but definitely gives us options.  Which is why I am so surprised that we haven't got in someone to play alongside Kamara.  I honestly believe that one signing into that key role changes so much.  Yes we will have to pay but given how much each league position is worth we'd "make our money back" pretty quickly.

[Keener window-cleaner]

It's also very strange with the Sarr fiasco, why did we spend so much time and energy on that transfer and went so long in the negotiations, only for us to in the final minute decide that he wasn't a good fit for the team? I mean, that we didn't play with wide forwards and already have Bailey in that position is of course obvious. Would be so interesting to know more about how the club reasoned there and who called the shots. 

[allani]

3 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

I think it's a tricky one, would it really be sound to invest heavily in a player who fits our current stupid system, if that player does not fit the system if a new manager comes in? We are crying out for a top class box to box no 8, but if a new manager comes in and would play 4-2-3-1 we would rather need a holding midfielder and a left wide forward and would not have any need for the no 8.

 

I don't think we do need a top class box to box player.  We want someone who is a mix of Kamara and Luiz.  That type of player would work equally well in a 4-3-3 as in a 4-2-3-1.

[Delphinho123]

Just now, allani said:

I don't think we do need a top class box to box player.  We want someone who is a mix of Kamara and Luiz.  That type of player would work equally well in a 4-3-3 as in a 4-2-3-1.

This

[Keener window-cleaner]

Just now, allani said:

I don't think we do need a top class box to box player.  We want someone who is a mix of Kamara and Luiz.  That type of player would work equally well in a 4-3-3 as in a 4-2-3-1.

Don't agree, if we play 4-3-2-1 we desperately need one of our two no 8 to be a creative box to box player, not a mix of Kamara and Luiz (and I think they are quite similar by the way).

[allani]

1 minute ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

Don't agree, if we play 4-3-2-1 we desperately need one of our two no 8 to be a creative box to box player, not a mix of Kamara and Luiz (and I think they are quite similar by the way).

So who would you drop in that case?  Because if you play a creative box to box player and McGinn or JJ we will have the exact issue we have at the moment - that Kamara and the defence will be massively exposed when we lose the ball because we have two midfielders who have advanced so far and left a massive gap behind them.  West Ham was a good example - when Luiz was playing slightly deeper we were better, take him off and put on a more attacking midfielder and the whole thing falls apart.  The only issue is that Luiz isn't quite good / strong enough to dominate the midfield and not quick enough to be the box-to-box option.

I worry that if we play Kamara, Luiz and a new B2B midfielder then Luiz will get bullied and just hasn't shown that he is consistent enough to play that key role.

[Monkeypuzzle]

Coutinho   Buendia   Bailey

              Kamara   Luiz

 

This is a fantastic midfield and is certainly good enough for European football. Unfortunately I can't see us playing with it. Questions over Douglas Luis's contract and a lack of quality depth in the more defensive areas require addressing. Another quality winger would be welcome competition as well.

Our two strikers are not playing at their best, but they ARE good enough. Of course additions and upgrades are welcome but not essential just yet.

Our fullbacks are both quality players, but are struggling with our bizarre system that relies on DEFENDERS to do the attacking! With Carlos' injury our centre backs are definitely our weakest position due to Konsa's decline and Mings' injury. A loan signing or addition of someone no better than our back up choices does not improve the team on the pitch.

A top quality centre back is the only position that would definitely improve our starting eleven (if we actually played our best players or formation). A top quality defensive midfielder would be great too but would not have as big an impact replacing Luiz as say, Diallo would have replacing Konsa. When Carlos is fit again we could then look to move on either Konsa or Chambers if we felt we had too many centre backs at that point.

Therefore my highest priority this window would be a top quality centre back (Diallo is the best that I have heard us linked to but Caleta Car is also a good option). Then I would hope to also bring in a quality defensive midfielder (Sangare or Laimer are the best options I can think of). Another quality winger would be my final choice this window, although I'd cope until January if necessary. This needs to be a top quality attacker though, equal to those already at the club. Ryan Kent is not good enough for example.

Let's be honest, none of that will happen probably, we will get Bednarek from Southampton and no one else, but one can dream.

* I had to edit this post three times because of stupid autocorrect and players'  names!

Edited August 29, 2022 by Monkeypuzzle

[MaVilla]

9 minutes ago, Monkeypuzzle said:

Coutinho   Buendia   Bailey

              Kamara   Luiz

 

 

with the players we have right now, i agree with this 100%.

Gerrard wont do it though, and even if he did, i think he would find a way to f*** the tactics up.

[Keener window-cleaner]

8 minutes ago, allani said:

So who would you drop in that case?  Because if you play a creative box to box player and McGinn or JJ we will have the exact issue we have at the moment - that Kamara and the defence will be massively exposed when we lose the ball because we have two midfielders who have advanced so far and left a massive gap behind them.  West Ham was a good example - when Luiz was playing slightly deeper we were better, take him off and put on a more attacking midfielder and the whole thing falls apart.  The only issue is that Luiz isn't quite good / strong enough to dominate the midfield and not quick enough to be the box-to-box option.

I worry that if we play Kamara, Luiz and a new B2B midfielder then Luiz will get bullied and just hasn't shown that he is consistent enough to play that key role.

It's a fair question, and that goes back to the fact that the formation is wrong from the start. I agree that if we play a too attacking midfielder to the left of Kamara we will get exposed on the left flank when Digne makes his forward runs. The problem is, if all three midfielders are of the Kamara/Luiz type (holding midfielder good att passing/keeping possession), then we have so little creativity in the team, especially as also Coutinho drops deep and collects the ball and with our full backs easily blocked. We basically have no one who creates chances for our forwards.

That's why I mean that if we play this stupid formation, we really need to have a no 8 who contributes with creating chances. Now the problem is, which I fully agree with you, that this player also need to be good defensively. It's very diffucult to find this type of player, especially if we are not prepared to spend 30-50M on that player. So to go back to my first comment, if we did spend that much money on that kind of player who is calibrated for this specific failing formation, and a new manager comes in, then we might have spunked all that money which would be better spent on a left wide forward or a proper defensive destroyer type of midfielder in a 4-2-3-1.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

36 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

I think it's a tricky one, would it really be sound to invest heavily in a player who fits our current stupid system, if that player does not fit the system if a new manager comes in? We are crying out for a top class box to box no 8, but if a new manager comes in and would play 4-2-3-1 we would rather need a holding midfielder and a left wide forward and would not have any need for the no 8.

 

If we sign a genuine top CM, one who is good at everything, it reallyy wouldn't matter who the Manager is or what the system id IMO.

Edited August 29, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Keener window-cleaner]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

If we sign a genuine top CM, one who is good at everything, it reallyy wouldn't matter who the Manager is or what the system id IMO.

Agree with that, question is, who is this mystery player and would we be able to get him  

[Keener window-cleaner]

Gallagher perhaps? Though I got the impression that he played more of an attacking mf at palace, and hasn't impressed me in the more regular CM role for Chelsea this season. Would still want him though.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

41 minutes ago, allani said:

You pipped me to it.  But yes I could see that being a pretty effective option in certain matches.  I think I'd like JJ to play in other matches as I think he is better at breaking past our attacking players - but definitely gives us options.  Which is why I am so surprised that we haven't got in someone to play alongside Kamara.  I honestly believe that one signing into that key role changes so much.  Yes we will have to pay but given how much each league position is worth we'd "make our money back" pretty quickly.

3 competent CMs would be refreshing.

3 who can PASS well.

As you say, JJ has his purpose as well, against certain opposition and to run at tired legs to drive things.

Kamara, a proper destroyer with Luiz slightly forward would be a well balanced midfield IMO.

All have the right attributes.

[messi11]

El Ghazi worth way more than 2.5 Million 

[avfc1982am]

24 minutes ago, allani said:

I worry that if we play Kamara, Luiz and a new B2B midfielder then Luiz will get bullied and just hasn't shown that he is consistent enough to play that key role.

It make me laugh how people go on like Luiz is some pussy in midfield when for the last 3 years he's been the only one holding the midfield together.  Hardly had an opportunity to get used to the 8 role he started in when at VDG. He's the only one who can retain the ball, show composure and find his own teammates with a pass more often than not.  I wonder how long before the same people start slagging Kamara off as well because he's getting overrun too, moaning that he gets bullied too much.