Steven Gerrard

[R.Bear]

As I've said repeatedly, he will be judged on next season. Hopefully we have a productive summer and start strongly. When we reach the World Cup break next season there will be no excuses for where we are or arent in the table. This is still someone else's team and we it may not be possible for Gerrard to play the way/shape he wants with this personnel. If there is no improvement up until then then yes it may be time for a change but I really think we will be a surprise package next season and start well and finish comfortably top half. I also think he will make some very shrewd signings and wouldnt be surprised if some are already wrapped up.

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, R.Bear said:

As I've said repeatedly, he will be judged on next season. Hopefully we have a productive summer and start strongly. When we reach the World Cup break next season there will be no excuses for where we are or arent in the table. This is still someone else's team and we it may not be possible for Gerrard to play the way/shape he wants with this personnel. If there is no improvement up until then then yes it may be time for a change but I really think we will be a surprise package next season and start well and finish comfortably top half. I also think he will make some very shrewd signings and wouldnt be surprised if some are already wrapped up.

I hope you’re right and this last six months was just a false start.

[david-avfc]

On 30/04/2022 at 17:07, messi11 said:

So what his gerrards style of football?
I dont see a identity 

Sorry not to pick on your comment specifically but this saying about no style which gets bandied around by fans of all clubs after a few poor performances is one of the blandest criticisms in football.
 

Of course we have a style of play, every team does unless your absolutely clueless and bottom of the league. We attack through the middle, try to pass through the midfield and push the fullbacks high for width whilst the front 3 play narrow. Whether you think that approach is good or bad is up to your opinion, personally I think Gerrards approach isn’t helping us. If anything the style he’s trying to implement is the problem, rather than not having a style at all.  A bit of a rant, nothing personal, but I just find it a frustrating criticism. 

[Risso]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

Sure but after six months with the “upgrade” he is then surely he could’ve got more out of the current squad than he has.

Managing isn’t just about buying playing but getting the best out of players you have through coaching.  Six months isn’t a long time but also isn’t a small time to see some improvement, which we have not.

Most of these players will still be here next season, you’d expect probably at least half the first XI will likely be the same even if a busy summer transfer window (probably more) so we have to see Gerrard get the best out of players we have.  I’m not seeing improvements in almost all the players to what I was seeing previously. That is a concern.  

Gerrard was brought in to stop the “rot”, he has not.  The summer is the golden egg according to some, I hope it turns out that way and next season turns for the better but he’s not doing well so far as this “upgrade” he’s supposed to be.

(I’m ignoring the Smith part.)

Of course he's stopped the rot. He inherited a team in absolute meltdown. Arsenal could have put ten past us, and Smith was lurching from one formation to another, all with disastrous results. From 0.91 points per game (almost certain relegation over a season) to 1.36 (top 8-10 in most seasons). It hasn't been brilliant for some of the time, but he's taken over mid-season, with an unbalanced squad and one January transfer window. He most certainly HAS stopped the rot though, win our game in hand and we'll be top 10.

[nick76]

1 minute ago, Risso said:

Of course he's stopped the rot. He inherited a team in absolute meltdown. Arsenal could have put ten past us, and Smith was lurching from one formation to another, all with disastrous results. From 0.91 points per game (almost certain relegation over a season) to 1.36 (top 8-10 in most seasons). It hasn't been brilliant for some of the time, but he's taken over mid-season, with an unbalanced squad and one January transfer window. He most certainly HAS stopped the rot though, win our game in hand and we'll be top 10.

Wow, what tosh!

[Risso]

Even trolls can't dispute simple maths I'm afraid.

[nick76]

Just now, Risso said:

Even trolls can't dispute simple maths I'm afraid.

The last thing you can say is that I’m a troll.  That Arsenal game you said we were in meltdown yet the week before we were all happy until the 80 minute comfortably 2-0 up against Wolves, not long beaten Man U 1-0 at Old Trafford for the first time since god knows when, drew 1-1 in the cup with Chelsea but knocked out on penalties and beat Everton 3-0 but yeah we were in meltdown. 

Sure we somehow lost the Wolves game and went on a bad run that lost Smith his job but given Gerrard has also been on a bad run of losing 4 games(probably would’ve been 5 if the Liverpool game hadn’t had been postponed) and averaged ~1.1 for the last 16 games getting 18 points.  Gerrards only saving grace is his managerial bounce where all the fanfare was and he got 12 points in his first six games averaging 2 ppg.  So no his 2022 run of ~1.1 per game to me is not stopping the “rot”.

[Risso]

Ignoring wins and picking a random date to make a point? OK then, think I'll leave you to it.

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, Risso said:

Ignoring wins and picking a random date to make a point? OK then, think I'll leave you to it.

Random date? When I say 2022 form you argue that is random date? That’s literally a thing analysts use.

Ok analysts use last six games, in all league tables use six games to show wins and losses.  Gerrard has 4 points in six games does that help? Oh that doesn’t help your narrative so we can’t use that.  

Smith got sacked for his 2021 form but under your criteria that’s random so why did he get sacked because he got 55 points in 20/21 season, wow great! So he got sacked irrationally after 11 games after such a successful prior season, after avoiding relegation the season before and promotion the season before so the board are irrational.  Of course not, Smith got sacked because of 2021 form and Gerrard is being judged under 2022 form and after 16 games has 18 points, not great is it.

You’re the irrational one not looking at current form and only wanting to keep the original managerial bounce games to inflate your stats and suit a narrative you want.  Current form and performances are saying the “rot” is still there and Gerrard hasn’t stopped anything, in fact he’s carried it on.

[Risso]

Dear lord, is he always like this?

 

[nick76]

14 minutes ago, Risso said:

Dear lord, is he always like this?

 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by nick76

[VillanousOne]

Gerrard did turn around a very bad run of form and get the results needed to steady the ship.

The early days of Digne and Coutinho we looked a decent side, but then that seemed to end and it's hard to understand why we started going backwards.

The system he plays, needs players to run ahead of the play and make intelligent movement, something we struggle with. I lose track of the number of through balls, cut backs and chips forward that don't find the man.

We also look better when we press high, but this doesn't seem to be something we do very consistently.

I think I get a sense of how Gerrard wants to play, but I don't think we have the players needed or at least he's not picking the most obvious players to fill that system.

I want to give him more credit as i'm sure he deserves it, but Leicester are in terrible form and we only managed a draw and Norwich largely outplayed us. Something to build on though, I am a Leon Bailey fan but as it looks like he is out for the rest of the season I would hope it means Buendia plays, but fear it will be Ings.

I would drop McGinn and Coutinho, but more chance of Gerrard managing Man Utd.
 

Edited May 1, 2022 by VillanousOne

[foreveryoung]

I think the main thing I worry about with Gerrard is if he is ever gonna get the team to give 100%.

A big reason we have lost games this season is because most of the time in my opinion, most of the players look half arsed. You know when the players are at at 100% because we win games. I have mentioned on here many times the work rate of this team and intensity of the games needs to be improved, an if this means getting rid of a few, so be it. I'm just worried it won't be the few causing the issues.

[Risso]

Smith - 10 points from 11 games: relegation form

Gerrard - 30 points from 22 games: not relegation form.

Also Gerrard in 2022 if you insist - 18 points from 15 games. Also not relegation form.

 

[thabucks]

Me thinks Some seem intent on not giving Gerrard a chance due to the fact that he replaced their hero Smith. Even when presented the factual hard evidence in PPG etc there is a warped mindset we are no better off for sacking him and appointing Gerrard and things are all of sudden looking likely to be a struggle to push forwards next season. 

 

[allani]

17 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Random date? When I say 2022 form you argue that is random date? That’s literally a thing analysts use.

Ok analysts use last six games, in all league tables use six games to show wins and losses.  Gerrard has 4 points in six games does that help? Oh that doesn’t help your narrative so we can’t use that.  

Smith got sacked for his 2021 form but under your criteria that’s random so why did he get sacked because he got 55 points in 20/21 season, wow great! So he got sacked irrationally after 11 games after such a successful prior season, after avoiding relegation the season before and promotion the season before so the board are irrational.  Of course not, Smith got sacked because of 2021 form and Gerrard is being judged under 2022 form and after 16 games has 18 points, not great is it.

You’re the irrational one not looking at current form and only wanting to keep the original managerial bounce games to inflate your stats and suit a narrative you want.  Current form and performances are saying the “rot” is still there and Gerrard hasn’t stopped anything, in fact he’s carried it on.

To be fair - Smith had 11 months, 2 transfer windows and 1 pre-season in 2021 to fix the problems.  Gerrard has had 4 months, 1 window and no pre-season in 2022. 

Losing our key player obviously had a massive impact on our summer and probably distracted Smith / the owners from addressing the issues in the centre of the park / defensive side of the team as they tried to replace pretty much the only attacking outlet that we had.  We lacked balance in 2021 and we still lack balance (in a different way) in 2022.  Unfortunately the biggest area that suffers is also the area that is most critical to the way that Gerrard wants us to play.  He may have been naive in trying to play that way anyway but I can't see options on the bench that would realistically resolve those issues.  

I hope that with two or three astute signings the balance starts to come back and that in turn will help two or three other players improve their game / performance as they can focus on more on what they do well / play in an area of the pitch that more suits better / hopefully have a bit more time and space.  However, for me that does mean that Gerrard / the Board have a couple of BIG decisions to make (which could backfire with the supporters if they don't work immediately) as I do think that some of our most popular players need to play a much smaller / different part next season (or be moved on). 

At times under both Smith and Gerrard we have played some really good football (when we get on the front foot) - but under both we have also played some pretty clueless stuff.  At the moment the optimist in me thinks that addressing the midfield conundrum will make a huge difference at both ends of the park.  The pessimist says that finishing below Newcastle will make it harder to sign the players that we want / need and we'll end up having to sign more gambles.

[allani]

25 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

Gerrard did turn around a very bad run of form and get the results needed to steady the ship.

The early days of Digne and Coutinho we looked a decent side, but then that seemed to end and it's hard to understand why we started going backwards.

I think teams have done a better job of denying Coutinho space and we've not had the skill to find another outlet.  If you stop our midfield from having an easy ball to Coutinho and then running past him then they are likely to give the ball away either by dwelling on the ball too long, trying to make the pass that isn't really on, trying to make the Hollywood crossfield pass or hooking the ball down the channels for the CF to chase.  Get control in midfield and I do think that the likes of Digne, Couts (if he stays), Emi, JJ, etc will come into their own as they will have more time / space to do their thing and be playing further up the field where they will be more dangerous.  At least that is what I hope happens!!!!

[nick76]

18 minutes ago, Risso said:

 

Also Gerrard in 2022 if you insist - 18 points from 15 games. Also not relegation form.

 

You're posting that as if it a good stat that proves Gerrard stopped the "rot", its comical

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Risso]

What else would you call turning relegation form into not relegation form?

[VillanousOne]

33 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I think the main thing I worry about with Gerrard is if he is ever gonna get the team to give 100%.

A big reason we have lost games this season is because most of the time in my opinion, most of the players look half arsed. You know when the players are at at 100% because we win games. I have mentioned on here many times the work rate of this team and intensity of the games needs to be improved, an if this means getting rid of a few, so be it. I'm just worried it won't be the few causing the issues.

But when he first came in the whole team were working hard and we were grinding out wins, then came the 'mini preseason' and we regressed massively.