Relegation Avoidance Thread

[Keyblade]

3 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I never said it wouldn't be a dogfight. i am saying unequivocally that leaving it to the last day and relying on Bournemouth messing up was not in the plan. PL survival will have been expected before that. That was a hiccup. 

There were extraneous circumstances during the season which made things a bit harder, like Heaton and McGinn missing most of the second half of the season as well as Wesley's (our only functioning striker at the time) untimely season-ender. We had to cobble together January signings Mbwana Samatta, Pepe Reina and Danny Drinkwater to cover for those losses. 

At the end of the day, the goal for the season was to stay up, and we did...however shakily. Hardly what I'd call a hiccup.

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Nah, I remember going through an old poll which polled the expectations of this forum for which position we would finish in the season. Even after ignoring the joke votes, the average position it got was 14th. So yeah, people weren't as pessimistic as you think although expectations quickly changed as the season went on.

Besides, even if most people expected a relegation battle, there's a big difference between a relegation battle where we still finished relatively safe at around 14-15th and a relegation battle where we looked dead certs to be relegated for significant parts of the season and only stayed up on 1 point on the last day where circumstances could've easily gone differently

 

 

 

Oh I don't doubt that people were optimistic to start the season, I was too. I was thinking something silly like 11th/12th (was really excited by Douglas Luiz). I was referring to the higher ups at the club though. They can't have expected anything other than survival surely.

[Peter Griffin]

3 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Expected by fools maybe. After all...

 

you don't need a crystal ball to see what happened in the past, it is used for seeing into the future 

[Peter Griffin]

Just now, Keyblade said:

Oh I don't doubt that people were optimistic to start the season, I was too. I was thinking something silly like 11th/12th (was really excited by Douglas Luiz). I was referring to the higher ups at the club though. They can't have expected anything other than survival surely.

I agree that the club hierarchy had survival as the objective. The point is that they did not expect it on the last day and relying on another team messing up

[Tomaszk]

11 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Do you not see us playing different football than we did under Deano? 

The lows are just as low, the highs aren't as high.

11 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

We don't know whether they will work or not but 20 games is not enough to make a judgement on Gerrard.

I don't think a team should get worse the longer they are with a manager/coach.

[Peter Griffin]

4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

4 hours ago, Zatman said:

 

Trying to work out why I feel so down about SG despite the statistic about us being 11th in the table since his arrival

For me the disappointment with SG's tenure so far, and taking into account that we are 11th in form since he arrived, is that I think all of us feel that we could be in the top half now rather than where we are. We could have had an outside chance of pushing for a European place. That is the really frustrating thing for me.

[Tomaszk]

1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said:

I agree that the club hierarchy had survival as the objective. The point is that they did not expect it on the last day and relying on another team messing up

Objective: A thing aimed at or sought; a goal.

So not demanded as a minimum expectation, whether on the last day or not.

[Peter Griffin]

5 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

The lows are just as low, the highs aren't as high.

I don't think a team should get worse the longer they are with a manager/coach.

I am not talking about lows and highs. I am talking about playing style, u said u it wasn't clear to you. I am surprised. To me the style of football is very different but hey, if you don't see that I suppose we see the game differently.

 

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Tomaszk said:

Objective: A thing aimed at or sought; a goal.

So not demanded as a minimum expectation, whether on the last day or not.

You really are missing the point 

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said:

I am not talking about lows and highs. I am talking about playing style, u said u it wasn't clear to you. I am surprised. To me the style of football is very different but hey, if you don't see that I suppose we see the game differently.

 

I dont see a style or any pattern of play now. Pass to Coutinho and hope he does something if not then hope Cash is free out wide 

[Tomaszk]

2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Ah yes. Thought so.

[briny_ear]

On 17/04/2022 at 20:09, TRO said:

You say that.....but if we don't get the recruitment right, it does me too.

 

Ah, I can tell you will be Team Hippo next season!

[Icarium]

6 hours ago, Zatman said:

I dont see a style or any pattern of play now. Pass to Coutinho and hope he does something if not then hope Cash is free out wide 

I mean that's the pattern of play we used under smith, pass to Grealish and hope he does something.

Must be that villa engine we heard so much about

[El Segundo]

The main differences I see in our playing style are a lack of width, except when the fullbacks are allowed to get forward,   and increased defensive vulnerability. 

We still try to play it out from the back and often fail. We still build far too slowly, even more so than under Smith,  and fail to take advantage of the gaps left when other team have pushed players up to press.  We still have misfiring strikers. We still have a midfield  you can drive a bus through at times.  We still have players who give the ball away far too often under little or no pressure.  We still have a manager who seems reluctant to make subs until it's too late, and who is unable to anticipate and counter tactical changes by his opposite number. 

I was neither massively for nor against Gerrard when appointed, I had an open mind.  I think he's been disappointing in not improving what he inherited. I even think we are worse in some aspects.  He seems far too focussed on only being judged once he can get in his type of player, rather than making the best of what he's got now.  I do wonder how much slack people would be giving to other coaches given the same results - for example Hassenhuttl, who was mentioned as a possible recruit.       

 

 

     

[danceoftheshamen]

19 hours ago, El Segundo said:

The main differences I see in our playing style are a lack of width, except when the fullbacks are allowed to get forward,   and increased defensive vulnerability. 

We still try to play it out from the back and often fail. We still build far too slowly, even more so than under Smith,  and fail to take advantage of the gaps left when other team have pushed players up to press.  We still have misfiring strikers. We still have a midfield  you can drive a bus through at times.  We still have players who give the ball away far too often under little or no pressure.  We still have a manager who seems reluctant to make subs until it's too late, and who is unable to anticipate and counter tactical changes by his opposite number. 

I was neither massively for nor against Gerrard when appointed, I had an open mind.  I think he's been disappointing in not improving what he inherited. I even think we are worse in some aspects.  He seems far too focussed on only being judged once he can get in his type of player, rather than making the best of what he's got now.  I do wonder how much slack people would be giving to other coaches given the same results - for example Hassenhuttl, who was mentioned as a possible recruit.       

 

 

     

Well put and exactly the same view of things I have at present.

Listen Stevie G is new to managing in the Prem. I do feel he's tried a few things which in Scotland he'd have gotten away with and still won the game but the Prem is so unforgiving & ruthless he you simply don't get away with anywhere near as much. He'll learn from this I'm sure and I actually like him as a guy & manager.

However we need to avoid defeat against Burnley still so I am still a little concerned until we pass that guaranteed safety line. Burnley's run in is full of points if they hit a bit of form & a draw at West Ham is a darn good result. If they beat Southampton later my concern will increase until we can pick up a couple of wins somewhere at least.

As for Leeds & Everton, now the only other two teams between us & Burnley, they both have enough points to play for to overtake us should we keep losing.

[messi11]

Everton losing is good news for us! thank god

[Tayls]

17 minutes ago, messi11 said:

Everton losing is good news for us! thank god

It must have been about 10 seconds after you wrote this, that they equalised… if we get relegated now, it’s 100% your fault. 

[messi11]

Everton drawing oh god, we're going down 

[Keyblade]

On 19/04/2022 at 15:18, El Segundo said:

I was neither massively for nor against Gerrard when appointed, I had an open mind.  I think he's been disappointing in not improving what he inherited. I even think we are worse in some aspects.  He seems far too focussed on only being judged once he can get in his type of player, rather than making the best of what he's got now.  I do wonder how much slack people would be giving to other coaches given the same results - for example Hassenhuttl, who was mentioned as a possible recruit. 

This is exactly where I stand. It's quite disappointing that he's unable to get the most out of this current group, which is very talented despite some weak spots. The mark of a good manager is one that improves the players he works with and seeing some sign of that would alleviate a lot of worries people have going into the summer. November to January was good, if he stayed on that trajectory I'd be really excited about next season. But as it stands, it doesn't seem that much better than the backend of the Smith era, which is worrying.

[Peter Griffin]

43 minutes ago, messi11 said:

Everton drawing oh god, we're going down 

I suspect that comment will stand the test of time only a little longer than the one about Everton winning.