DJBOB Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) The overarching question for me is: can this personnel play the Unai wants them to play? This is my ideal XI but would require a big change from Unai in that he must drop McGinn. Martinez Cash Konsa Pau Moreno Zaniolo Kamara Luiz JJ Diaby Watkins This fits the profile all over the pitch of what we need to do. Pace at 3/4 of the back line positions. A midfield that can cover a lot of ground but can also carry the ball forward. And Diaby/Watkins (or Duran) will fit up top. Hopefully we can see this XI at some point but I'm afraid Unai is running into the trap that Deano and Gerrard both laid for themselves. McGinn can not play every game and everyone fit....he's not in this year's starting XI. Edited September 21, 2023 by DJBOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 3 hours ago, villan95 said: Aside from Hibs and Burnley away we haven't really played well this season IMO. Hopefully it's just a case of players settling in. We played well vs Everton even though they were useless, also Palace we dominated but panicked when they scored. Even Newcastle on a good day we also could have scored 5 Today was poor though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 1 hour ago, DJBOB said: The overarching question for me is: can this personnel play the Unai wants them to play? This is my ideal XI but would require a big change from Unai in that he must drop McGinn. Martinez Cash Konsa Pau Moreno Zaniolo Kamara Luiz JJ Diaby Watkins This fits the profile all over the pitch of what we need to do. Pace at 3/4 of the back line positions. A midfield that can cover a lot of ground but can also carry the ball forward. And Diaby/Watkins (or Duran) will fit up top. Hopefully we can see this XI at some point but I'm afraid Unai is running into the trap that Deano and Gerrard both laid for themselves. McGinn can not play every game and everyone fit....he's not in this year's starting XI. We would get destroyed playing that way. Its 8 attack minded players in the starting 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 36 minutes ago, Zatman said: We would get destroyed playing that way. Its 8 attack minded players in the starting 11 Who are you counting in your 8? Diaby, Watkins, JJ, Zaniolo, obvious. Moreno? OK. Doug? OK, but one of the double pivots is supposed to get forward sometimes because sometimes you need 6 in attack. Cash? Sure he likes to attack, but he's stayed back when he's been told to stay back. Pau? Likes contribute to the attack, but does so from deep. You can argue that he hasn't adjusted to defending in the PL yet, but I see no signs that he actually shirks his duties. Kamara? Wandered forward tonight but usually doesn't do so as much. The fact that he was tucking into the back line against Palace but was high up the pitch tonight says something about the tactical mistakes. He has stayed back when he's been told to stay back. I might put McGinn in for JJ or Zaniolo depending on opponent/match situation/how well each is playing, but otherwise, I agree with DJBOB...that's our best XI until Mings, Buendia, and maybe Diego are back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 49 minutes ago, Zatman said: We would get destroyed playing that way. Its 8 attack minded players in the starting 11 I mean it’s the same as last year swapped out for Mings, McGinn and Buendia. The only one you’d have to really instruct to take shape is Zaniolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan95 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 6 hours ago, Zatman said: We played well vs Everton even though they were useless, also Palace we dominated but panicked when they scored. Even Newcastle on a good day we also could have scored 5 Today was poor though Even though Everton was a comfortable win I still felt we could have played better. Palace was a good first half without scoring but 2nd half was really poor until the late flurry. And Newcastle probably should have scored 8/9 so definitely not a good performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Watched 35 minutes back and that was enough. Genuinely don’t understand what him and tielemans role was. When we attacked they were both past the half way line. When our back line had the ball they were planted in between warsaws midfielders unable to receive passes. When Warsaw had the ball they were stuck together too high up the pitch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, TRO said: If you are a No6 and playing in a Central defensive midfield role, you have to have the ability to engage in the physical aspect of the game, and make a good fist of stopping the opposition......He has a quality of passing and moving in a game, but that is not his prime function.....you can't be a passive CDM without consequences. He is a shadow of the player, we seen last season....its concerning. The problem for the team is, we don't have anyone else of any ilk, to challenge him.....we are simply short of this type of player. I am all for supporting a player, through a form dip.....but the team will be consequenced, by having a lack of suitable options. We know he has it in him, as we have seen it for ourselves. I actually like Dendonker, and I think he should've started last night. With Tielemens you need a disciplined and imposing DM. More of a concern to me is McGinn has just not been in the tough games at all. Newcastle, Liverpool, Palace, and Now Legia, he's been a shadow of himself, chasing shadows all game, as a result. This is our captain! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 21 minutes ago, Philosopher said: We know he has it in him, as we have seen it for ourselves. I actually like Dendonker, and I think he should've started last night. With Tielemens you need a disciplined and imposing DM. More of a concern to me is McGinn has just not been in the tough games at all. Newcastle, Liverpool, Palace, and Now Legia, he's been a shadow of himself, chasing shadows all game, as a result. This is our captain! You are right.....and its not about digging out players....its about what is on display, and how its affecting our team. you can possibly carry a player or two.....three of four and we are in serious decline in a game. I don't want to labour the point, but all our options are ballers.....scoring goals overall, is not an issue for us ( baring Ollie)....so how does he shore up the defence, without the skilled defenders to do it? as they say in cricket......"you've changed the bowler, but you haven't changed the bowling........it amounts to the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 I would still like to see three midfielders, kamara deep and doug and tielemans ahead, doesn't fit the set up though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 1 minute ago, TRO said: No, Shaun, sadly you are right, in your thinking. He is way off the main job he has....His offensive play is okish.....but we have too many like that, and it compounds our issues....McGinn, is much the same. Tielemans is not defensive, by nature.....so we are now drifting in to passive territory. Our only other option at DM is Dendoncker… so if Kamara continues to be “off it” then we should get him involved and in the team… one of our few defensive players but I don’t think Unai is a fan (neither am I tbh but… he offers attributes others don’t have despite his shortcomings)… McGinn has been poor and largely absent in games too… hasn’t shown last season’s form yet… Something is up… midfield is falling apart without Luiz in much the way the defence did without Mings… With Diego back, I think our defence should be ok and Pau will improve. Moreno at LB and Konsa as hybrid RB is our best defensive lineup now imo. But what do we do about our midfield?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said: I would still like to see three midfielders, kamara deep and doug and tielemans ahead, doesn't fit the set up though The setup might need changed, particularly away from home as we seem to be getting exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Our only other option at DM is Dendoncker… so if Kamara continues to be “off it” then we should get him involved and in the team… one of our few defensive players but I don’t think Unai is a fan (neither am I tbh but… he offers attributes others don’t have despite his shortcomings)… McGinn has been poor and largely absent in games too… hasn’t shown last season’s form yet… Something is up… midfield is falling apart without Luiz in much the way the defence did without Mings… With Diego back, I think our defence should be ok and Pau will improve. Moreno at LB and Konsa as hybrid RB is our best defensive lineup now imo. But what do we do about our midfield?? Lets be quite frank in what we need,( Imv) when we see Rodri, Rice, Palinha and the likes..... these can defend and have offensive attributes, and thats what we need.....to get to the next level, you need Defenders who can attack and attackers who can defend......Thats the challenge. I really like Kamara, in a general sense and was praiseworthy of his play last season, but what made me feel that way has disappeared, temporary, I hope. However, maybe we should be picking attibutes to fill roles and not names.....I have said before, you can't pick offensive players to play defensive roles, (even though, their ball playing skills might be immense).....without consequences. Ps Mcginn's play, is just as much a concern. Edited September 22, 2023 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Without Mings our defensive line has been dropping deeper which is massively increasing the space our midfield has to cover. I honestly don't have the answer but it's obvious our midfield 2 is struggling to cover space, especially in transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 50 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said: I would still like to see three midfielders, kamara deep and doug and tielemans ahead, doesn't fit the set up though It matters, so much where they play......the most significant thing is, they bring to the game the prime attributes that the role demands.... Too many times in my view, players are given decent ratings during a game, and don't even bring what the role traditionally demands...they bring a sort of eye catching version of it, where superficial views are formed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 2 hours ago, IrishVilla10 said: I would still like to see three midfielders, kamara deep and doug and tielemans ahead, doesn't fit the set up though I've thought of this as well. Diaby Right Wide Forward, Zaniolo or JJ Left Wide forward etc? I've totally forgotten about Mcginn though ffs. Strange thing, it's like in a sense we have an embarrassment of riches but just need to find the best balance to suit them all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 (edited) Unai's got quite the conundrum until Diego comes back. The way we build out of a 3-2 block, the two outside CB's would need to be good 1v1 defenders in space. Saw it with Brentford last year, Legia yesterday and at times, Liverpool - when Digne is pushed up, there's a lot of space to exploit down the sides. What opponents have been doing is splitting their strikers (if they have pacey ones) wide of the CB's so that when the ball is turned over - they just launch it down the channels. Think of the other teams that build in this kind of system - City, Arsenal, Teuchel. They all have athletic players who can play those outside CB positions who can take on players 1v1. Last night - you had Chambers and Lenglet - possibly the two worst options. In Unai's ideal world, the back 3 would have been - Konsa, Mings, Pau - Konsa is a notable 1v1 defender (leads the league in not being dribbled past for a few years now) and Mings can sweep up anything behind Pau. Mings injured, this is probably the best configuration we tried against Burnley and for a few minutes against Liverpool - Konsa, Diego, Pau Mings injured AND Diego injured, we then have - Cash, Konsa, Pau Then finally with rotation - Chambers, Konsa, Lenglet You can see the back 3 getting weaker and weaker each time and until Diego comes back, I don't see how we can't play Cash-Konsa-Pau if we want to stay competitive. If we can only sign one player in January, it is someone that can play RB/CB role. Edited September 22, 2023 by DJBOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Rightdm00 said: Without Mings our defensive line has been dropping deeper which is massively increasing the space our midfield has to cover. I honestly don't have the answer but it's obvious our midfield 2 is struggling to cover space, especially in transition. Take our look at our shape in the build up to their 3rd, wtf is that. Every player high except Konsa who is about 30 yards deeper, most players strolling and not on their toes, no idea what Tielemans is doing pointing, that's his man if it turns over. Massive hole straight down the middle if we lose it, and that's what happened with a shocking pass by Digne straight to their defender. The goalscorer is the player with bright yellow boots closest to Kamara, so he gives half our team a headstart and still beats them up the pitch. But that's not a surprise when you watch the video and everyone of our players is just jogging back, 5 minutes in the second half ffs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 20 minutes ago, andym said: Take our look at our shape in the build up to their 3rd, wtf is that. Every player high except Konsa who is about 30 yards deeper, most players strolling and not on their toes, no idea what Tielemans is doing pointing, that's his man if it turns over. Massive hole straight down the middle if we lose it, and that's what happened with a shocking pass by Digne straight to their defender. The goalscorer is the player with bright yellow boots closest to Kamara, so he gives half our team a headstart and still beats them up the pitch. But that's not a surprise when you watch the video and everyone of our players is just jogging back, 5 minutes in the second half ffs. First goal Konsa drops deeper than everyone else putting Digne's man onside for the cross. Digne should have went with the runner but Konsa dropping the line deeper doesn't help at all. Just a really disjointed performance all around. With your example the midfield and defensive lines aren't connected they are overlapping in some terrible amoeba like shape. No one knows who is responsible for what which leads to missed assignments on a loss of possession. Good news is most of this is fixable, against the type of quality in the conference league, with some film sessions and squad selection. Still don't know what we do for the elite teams in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 10 hours ago, TRO said: Lets be quite frank in what we need,( Imv) when we see Rodri, Rice, Palinha and the likes..... these can defend and have offensive attributes, and thats what we need.....to get to the next level, you need Defenders who can attack and attackers who can defend......Thats the challenge. I really like Kamara, in a general sense and was praiseworthy of his play last season, but what made me feel that way has disappeared, temporary, I hope. However, maybe we should be picking attibutes to fill roles and not names.....I have said before, you can't pick offensive players to play defensive roles, (even though, their ball playing skills might be immense).....without consequences. Ps Mcginn's play, is just as much a concern. Our players were brilliant under Unai last season and that gives me hope that they will be back to their best… the slump beforehand was terrible and they way he lifted everyone was amazing… It’s a shame really and it’s typical Villa… we can’t have a prolonged period of good fortune, always suffer setbacks and never do things the easy way… but I think we finally have someone in charge who can overcome and withstand these kinds of challenges… us fans just need to be more patient and understanding… as difficult as that may be… Regardless, I don’t think anyone wants or picks names - especially not Unai. Players are picked on their attributes and suitability for their roles/positions but the matter is complicated when said player is off form or out of sorts… another reason why we need squad depth and competition. It makes a lot of sense to bring Dendoncker back “into the fray” right now… I don’t see a place for Tielemans other than Dougie’s backup for now… I’m just getting this overriding and constant feeling that us fans will have to just be patient and tolerant for the first quarter or half of the season and just see how Unai deals with the disruptions and gets us playing and performing how he wants… After last season, many of us expected us to be flying this time and take all of that momentum into this one…expectations levels were raised massively… But we have had our wings clipped and need to overcome and resolve a few issues… Once the likes of Kamara and McGinn hit good form, we will be so much better for it… I just wish we didn’t rely so heavily on a few individuals and others could pick up the slack… Full faith and trust in Unai… we will get there… it just might be a fairly topsy turvy season when what we all want is consistency and constant positive performances… not easy… I believe we will get there soon… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts