Ollie Watkins

[AvfcRigo82]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

In games where Ollie hasn't scored, he hasn't scored.

FACT.

Yep. And that's been the frustrating up until yesterday for some, and including him by the look of his reaction after he scored.

[Indigo]

14 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

It's no false equivalence, it's the same stat, it is you choosing to make a meal out of it to suit your argument my friend.

And based on this, are you saying constructive criticism of players isn't allowed?

 

I have no idea what you're talking about mate. I've literally posted this season saying that he hasn't played well at times, how I thought he hasn't at times in previous seasons etc when others have felt the opposite. Despite this I merely said I don't like a stat being used largely out of context as it's bit misleading and comes across as going out of one's way to be critical in about a sentence, not really making a meal out of it. I actually meant to include the "1 in 13" or whatever it is posts but mis-typed, so I'm not sure if you've taken it personally but it wasn't my intention.

For what it's worth though it is indeed a false equivalence, because the BBC were listing a stat in a piece that presents stats, I was referring to people using this stat as a means of criticising Watkins' contributions so far this season, not literally saying that any mention of these numbers is a desperate attempt at slating him and thus hurting my little feelings.

How very VillaTalk of you to pull the "am I not allowed an opinion because you disagree with me" line though, feels like the Smith era all over again. 

 

[VillanousOne]

2 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Ollie has always been a bit 'streaky'. Hopefully that's the start of a purple patch.

Any striker that isn't streaky aside from Haaaaaaland (and even he had some patches without goals last season), Son maybe?

Just not sure who we think we could sign to replace Ollie who would be better? What 'consistent' strikers there are that would sign for us.

Would love a list of all that current league strikers who score weekly and their attainability

 

[Tom13]

15 minutes ago, bobzy said:

In games where Ollie hasn't scored, he hasn't scored.

FACT.

Great argument

[bobzy]

13 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Yep. And that's been the frustrating up until yesterday for some, and including him by the look of his reaction after he scored.

Oh, undoubtedly frustrating for him.

[AvfcRigo82]

14 minutes ago, Indigo said:

I have no idea what you're talking about mate. I've literally posted this season saying that he hasn't played well at times, how I thought he hasn't at times in previous seasons etc when others have felt the opposite. Despite this I merely said I don't like a stat being used largely out of context as it's bit misleading and comes across as going out of one's way to be critical in about a sentence, not really making a meal out of it. I actually meant to include the "1 in 13" or whatever it is posts but mis-typed, so I'm not sure if you've taken it personally but it wasn't my intention.

For what it's worth though it is indeed a false equivalence, because the BBC were listing a stat in a piece that presents stats, I was referring to people using this stat.

How very VillaTalk of you to pull the "am I not allowed an opinion because you disagree with me" line though, feels like the Smith era all over again. 

 

I must have misread your post then if that's not what you were meaning.

It's not about anyone having an opinion and must agree with it, as it's just my own opinion after all. It's certain posters that appear to jump onto others (not referring to you) when you voice an opinion when the player is going through a frustrating patch.

Again my apologies if I've taken your post the wrong way.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by AvfcRigo82

[Rightdm00]

1 hour ago, Kiwivillan said:

People that think our striker situation isn't sorted are deluded or completely oblivious to striker situation in PL

He still hasn't signed the contract. So I guess presently sorted but not for the long term. 

[AvfcRigo82]

2 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

He still hasn't signed the contract. So I guess presently sorted but not for the long term. 

I could be wrong, but I don't think all the numbers are there in his stats to warrant paying £160k a week that he's rumoured to be seeking.

He needs to deliver more imo.

The other side of the coin could be that some would argue that we could find a decent replacement elsewhere in the world for £60m+ and £160k p/w if push came to shove.

Monchi and Unai will already have a shortlist no doubt.

[Indigo]

1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I must have misread your post then if that's not what you were meaning.

It's not about anyone having an opinion and must agree with it, as it's just my own opinion after all. It's certain posters that appear to jump onto others (not referring to you) when you voice an opinion when the player is going through a frustrating patch.

Again my apologies if I've taken your post the wrong way.

 

All good mate. I intended on editing it but I only noticed my error after the post was quoted so thought it was too late to bother. So yeah definitely not targeted at anyone in particular. I don’t think Watkins has been at the races at all this season personally (although I thought he was good against Palace) but at the same time just think including games played about 4 months ago along with ones from this season as though it's part of one run of form is a bit off as a form of criticism.

[Mic09]

17 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

Any striker that isn't streaky aside from Haaaaaaland (and even he had some patches without goals last season), Son maybe?

Just not sure who we think we could sign to replace Ollie who would be better? What 'consistent' strikers there are that would sign for us.

Would love a list of all that current league strikers who score weekly and their attainability

 

First of all, I want to keep Watkins. I think he does the job very well.

But I don't agree with "who could we sign that will be better" part.

I don't know what the answer is. But the answer is there. I'm sure there is a player in top 5 leagues that would fit the system and possibly improve us. Just like with Diaby, there are players out there who are very successful and reachable.

And even if not, we just signed a 19 year old Columbian player who seems to be getting there is terms of quality.

I don't know who will eventually replace Watkins. But I am sure our scouting team do. 

[VillanousOne]

6 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

First of all, I want to keep Watkins. I think he does the job very well.

But I don't agree with "who could we sign that will be better" part.

I don't know what the answer is. But the answer is there. I'm sure there is a player in top 5 leagues that would fit the system and possibly improve us. Just like with Diaby, there are players out there who are very successful and reachable.

And even if not, we just signed a 19 year old Columbian player who seems to be getting there is terms of quality.

I don't know who will eventually replace Watkins. But I am sure our scouting team do. 

replace is one thing, in the future

but the insatiable expectation that there is an attainable player just lurking in the shadows, ready, wating to come in and be better than Ollie now.

Not saying there aren't players out there, it just seems to be the hardest position to recruit. Probably why a lot of teams are moving away from traditional strikers and to hybrid attacking players, like we have with Zaniolo and Diaby.

Edited September 25, 2023 by VillanousOne

[Tom13]

7 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

why is there not just a delete post option

 

There is - Hide

[AvfcRigo82]

8 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

why is there not just a delete post option

 

PM'd you.

[Rightdm00]

9 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I could be wrong, but I don't think all the numbers are there in his stats to warrant paying £160k a week that he's rumoured to be seeking.

He needs to deliver more imo.

The other side of the coin could be that some would argue that we could find a decent replacement elsewhere in the world for £60m+ and £160k p/w if push came to shove.

Monchi and Unai will already have a shortlist no doubt.

Looking at our long term situation.  Doubling Ollie's salary to 160k would cost ~£5 million a year. Over a 5 year contract that's £25 million. That's isn't much when we are talking salaries for strikers. Take a look at Spotrac, every lead striker/attacker is clearing over 200k p/w for a top 6 club. 

You would rather fork out £60 million in transfer fees and the increased salary to this mythical new striker. That's just bad business. Ollie deserve the deal and it makes financial sense. While it's true we could possibly find a better striker, we could also spend double what we paid for Ollie and end up with someone much worse. 

[Mic09]

27 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

replace is one thing, in the future

but the insatiable expectation that there is an attainable player just lurking in the shadows, ready, wating to come in and be better than Ollie now.

Not saying there aren't players out there, it just seems to be the hardest position to recruit. Probably why a lot of teams are moving away from traditional strikers and to hybrid attacking players, like we have with Zaniolo and Diaby.

I think you are 100% right.

I never understood the worry of 'what if Watkins gets injured' and 'we should have left Archer'. Our team is built to have goals coming from all directions. Heck, our LB and RB are contributing plenty.

We are fluid in attack. Watkins is the man up front, but if he's not there, we have a lot of depth to replace the attributes he brings in. And arguably, people who are more likely to score, even if it means a slightly worse link up or hold up play. 

The days of 'You are the number 9 and you win headers and get in the box' are long over. 

I am certain if Watkins and Duran are both out, we could play a front 3 of Diaby/Zaniolo/Bailey and still be a big threat.

[Exeter Fan Too]

1 hour ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Well it's the league that were focusing on.

If we want to go into other areas such as Europa conference league then his goal stats and contributions there make for very pleasant reading so far, whilst keeping one eye on who the quality of the opposition have been thus far too.

In the league. There is no exaggerated fact that Ollie had not scored a goal in the league that stretched back to last season which was a run of 11 games in total? Or have we missed seeing Ollie score somewhere in that time and someone's forgot to mention it?

Facts are facts no matter what way you try and dress it up.

If you want to number it differently in terms of goals this season so it looks a but more shiney then it's his first goal in 6 games.

My gripe with him is that he can be frustrating to watch - he probably frustrates himself too I would imagine. You can see the goal yesterday looked like a big weight of relief for him and I'm hoping that he can kick on from this now and find the net more to add to his goal tally and compliment his already glowing numbers in assists and work rate that he already has. It's frustrating his work rate leads to unfortunate situations at times..  like running in trouble, losing possession, not seeing a pass in time and missing scoring opportunities etc.

We know what he's capable of because we seen that last season when he went on a mad run of goalscoring form.

Everyone wants to see that Ollie back and scoring more without a doubt, but there's equally no harm in fans voicing constructive criticism from time to time either when a player isn't delivering as expected.

 

Didn't Ollie score in the final game of last season against Brighton? A goal that clinched European football for Villa?

[Tom13]

1 minute ago, Exeter Fan Too said:

Didn't Ollie score in the final game of last season against Brighton? A goal that clinched European football for Villa?

He had 1 in 12. The goal against Brighton being the one.

[Exeter Fan Too]

6 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

He had 1 in 12. The goal against Brighton being the one.

Indeed. But the post I quoted (not from you) contained a lecture about getting the facts right but said that Ollie had not scored a single goal in an 11 match run. That post stated that facts were facts and asked whether we had missed something when saying Ollie hadn't scored a solitary goal in an 11 match run.   

 

[Tom13]

2 minutes ago, Exeter Fan Too said:

Indeed. But the post I quoted (not from you) contained a lecture about getting the facts right but said that Ollie had not scored a single goal in an 11 match run. That post stated that facts were facts and asked whether we had missed something when saying Ollie hadn't scored a solitary goal in an 11 match run.

Ah ok fair enough!

[AvfcRigo82]

16 minutes ago, Exeter Fan Too said:

Indeed. But the post I quoted (not from you) contained a lecture about getting the facts right but said that Ollie had not scored a single goal in an 11 match run. That post stated that facts were facts and asked whether we had missed something when saying Ollie hadn't scored a solitary goal in an 11 match run.   

No that's my fault and in fact my posts should be reading as 'one' in eleven rather than 'not' scored in eleven.

Well spotted.