Jacob Ramsey

[est1874]

9 minutes ago, villa89 said:

Same, Whatever people see in him I don't see it. He's a decent player, he makes good forward runs but he doesn't control possession the way you would expect a midfielder to. Maybe he will improve with age. 

He's a great ball carrier who makes positive moves in possession - we don't have much of that in CM roles, McGinn does it best from the rest and that's only on the strength of his arse tbh.

[est1874]

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

People are so set on hating Gregg Evans is that they can't admit he got something right, even when it's as trivial as 'Villa are in difficulties with the same rules causing everyone else difficulties' and basically anyone at the club could have told him that. 

How much trouble are we in? Well, Ornstein's article may be worded in a misleading way, but he makes it sound like a lot: 'But funds must be raised before the end of June to stay compliant with profit and sustainability rules and that has alerted suitors, who believe offers above £50million will at least be contemplated. Should Villa decide to keep Ramsey, there are other ways in which the money could be found [selling Jhon Duran].' (highlight mine)

If that were really true then we wouldn't be buying Rogers for £15m. What's the point in doing that while countenancing selling JJ?

JJ can play in the same positions/roles, broadly speaking, is worth more, and we already have him.

The logic doesn't stack up there 

[Kiwivillan]

3 minutes ago, est1874 said:

The only way Emery would be happy to sell is if JJ's fitness/availability outlook for the future is deemed poor. If he's thought of internally as being a real injury threat in the long term, then 50m would be a good deal. But there's no way this happens based on his quality and output alone, and I don't believe we are that close to falling foul of FFP in the next 1-2 years.

Buying Diaby for 50m and selling JJ for the same would be madness IMO, especially considering JJ is homegrown 

I think Diaby cost 50m is grossly exaggerated

[Kiwivillan]

1 minute ago, est1874 said:

If that were really true then we wouldn't be buying Rogers for £15m. What's the point in doing that while countenancing selling JJ?

JJ can play in the same positions/roles, broadly speaking, is worth more, and we already have him.

The logic doesn't stack up there 

It does stack up. Tweet someone posted on here if Rogers 10m plus add ons over 5 years = 2m per year. Azaz sale covers the first year of Rogers. If JJ sells for 50m pure profit that's a lot of FFP wiggle room

[useless]

There will be many others that we would sell before Ramsey, and the few that we wouldn't sell before him, would probably still be more likely to leave, as they would more likely want to leave, attract more interest, and at this moment in time, fetch a bigger fee, but if we're really desperate for money owing to FFP, then I think we will make up the money by selling some some squad players

I think people underestimate how difficult he would be to replace as well, if we wanted somone to do the specific job he does on that left hand side, it wouldn't be as simple as just buying another winger, for such a player wouldn't bring the box-to-box midfield qualities that Ramsey brings to that role, there aren't many that can play that hybrid winger/midfielder role as well, or that are even suited to that role, as it happens Morgan Rogers could potentially be one, but if Ramsey was leaving he would be replaced with a more established player, Rogers will be his understudy, as well as being able to play several other roles

The article itself that people are responding to, says it's unlikely anyway, as he's a key player, so the real story is is that other teams are interested in him, which is something we knew anyway if common sensed is used, he's a very good player, one of the best in his age group in the country, of course other teams are going to be interested

It's not the same as selling Philogene and Aaron Ramsey in the summer, as they weren't even first team squad members, or hadn't been up to that point

[HanoiVillan]

4 minutes ago, est1874 said:

If that were really true then we wouldn't be buying Rogers for £15m. What's the point in doing that while countenancing selling JJ?

JJ can play in the same positions/roles, broadly speaking, is worth more, and we already have him.

The logic doesn't stack up there 

You've answered your own question! We would be buying a guy for £15m to replace a guy we'd be selling for ~£50m. That's what clubs up against it financially would be doing. 

[RichW]

I've always had the impression that unless the club get Champions League then this summer was going to be one where the club would need to sell a key player for FFP (have thought this would be Douglas Luiz tbh) but I wouldn't be surprised if it was Ramsey in the summer. Selling Ramsey in January would be baffling to me and especially to Newcastle or Spurs. Bayern Munich I could probably see but again maybe the summer.

Would normally dismiss this as just paper talk but I only think there's substance to it because of Ornstein. People will probably think it's just clickbait from Ornstein but I remember watching him on The Overlap and Gary Neville was adamant Pochettino wouldn't consider going to Villa and he defended the club/owners about how ambitious they were so it's not as if he'd like to put out some random clickbait stuff about Villa.

I'm sure the club will send out a message of some description to Percy/Evens/Maher at some point this week. 

[HanoiVillan]

1 minute ago, useless said:

There will be many others that we would sell before Ramsey, and the few that we wouldn't sell before him, would probably still be more likely to leave, as they would more likely want to leave, attract more interest, and at this moment in time, fetch a bigger fee, but if we're really desperate for money owing to FFP, then I think we will make up the money by selling some some squad players

I think people underestimate how difficult he would be to replace as well, if we wanted somone to do the specific job he does on that left hand side, it wouldn't be as simple as just buying another winger, for such a player wouldn't bring the box-to-box midfield qualities that Ramsey brings to that role, there aren't many that can play that hybrid winger/midfielder role as well, or that are even suited to that role, as it happens Morgan Rogers could potentially be one, but if Ramsey was leaving he would be replaced with a more established player, Rogers will be his understudy, as well as being able to play several other roles

The article itself that people are responding to, says it's unlikely anyway, as he's a key player, so the real story is is that other teams are interested in him, which is something we knew anyway if common sensed is used, he's a very good player, one of the best in his age group in the country, of course other teams are going to be interested

It's not the same as selling Philogene and Aaron Ramsey in the summer, as they weren't even first team squad members, or hadn't been up to that point

The nature of 'squad players' is their value is low because they aren't playing, and in any case we do not obviously have many 'squad players' to sell. Doubtless we would sell Chambers or Traore if we could, but since they'd probably not raise £5m between them it wouldn't make a difference, and neither has seen any concrete interest. We have sold most of the young players we could get £5m+ for at this stage. 

I'm not saying he's certain to go, and as you say Ornstein doesn't say that either, but the word 'must' in his article does have a clear and specific meaning so either he shouldn't have used 'must' or we will have to sell either Duran or Ramsey. 

[useless]

That is a big ‘if’ because Ramsey has established himself as a key player and ideally this would not be a consideration, but funds must be raised before the end of June to stay compliant with profit and sustainability rules and that has alerted suitors, who believe offers above £50million ($63.5m) will at least be contemplated. Should Villa decide to keep Ramsey, there are other ways in which the money could be found.

[Leeroy]

48 minutes ago, david-avfc said:

Would be a shambolic decision and would be the first time in a while I’d genuinely question the direction of the club 

The club can't help it if it has to sell an important player in order to fund improvements in the team because of FFP sh*te. 

 

We would probably get relatively big money for the following (i.e. at least £50m+): Martinez, Luiz, Kamara, Watkins, Diaby, Bailey (possibly), Pau Torres, Konsa, Ramsey. Out of all those players Ramsey makes the most sense because we didn't pay a fee for him and all of that money + extra can be reinvested back into the team. 

 

It really depends how much a team offers for Ramsey. I think £50m is too low, but £60-70m is a decent amount and would fund two new young full backs (good enough to go straight into the starting lineup) which is where I think the majority of our budget should go this summer. And if we offload Cash, Diego Carlos, Dendoncker, Chambers, possibly Digne for another £50-60m that should at least fund a new younger centre back and another holding midfielder + maybe a replacement for Ramsey.

 

I really like Ramsey and wouldn't want to lose him but he makes the most sense if we want to be able to spend relatively big money this summer. I also think Ramsey isn't the best against low blocks, he's better running into space, but because of how good we have become teams now put 10 men behind the ball against us especially at Villa Park. So we probably need someone with a bit more guile playing off the left than Ramsey moving forward. 

[duke313]

1 hour ago, rodders0223 said:

Ornstein doesn't make up bullshit. I imagine we are close to FFP or it's seriously hampering us.

If you don't think Monchi and Emery would sell a player for 100% profit to be reinvested you're not keeping up and are wilfully ignorant.

It's the system and I **** hate it.

I said this a while ago, Ramsey could be sold as it would be pure FFP profit same as Grealish.  It's shit, but those are the rules.

[GeordieVillan]

Like most/all clubs, we have to sell the buy. I would rather not lose Ramsey, but it might make good business sense and give us more wiggle room to invest in other areas.

Especially if we already have Rogers lined up at a fraction of the cost.

Hopefully we don’t need to sell him though, and he stays for the long term!

[Kiwivillan]

I love JJ I really do but man he's been off it back from injury. I thought he was brutal vs Manure and honestly a big reason we capitulated. Not the only one that was rubbish. I remember several weeks last season he was poor too. Did he get injury that affected. Can't remember. Way I see it is half a season to make himself invaluable or he's on the market. Can't see him leaving in January because of the form back from injury. He's not first XI pick for me right now

[Anything11]

There is no getting around the fact that this would be a painful sale.

Don't care about arguments regarding his fit in the team or injuries. It would absolutely suck to see him leave. 

This is FFP right now and it sucks.

[useless]

We're more likely to sell the likes of Cash, Mings, McGinn, Buendia, Duran and Bailey before Ramsey, if we really need.

The very article that people are responding to actually says, ideally selling him wouldn't be under consideration and there are other ways of raising the money

Exemple classique de people responding to the headlne and not the actually contents

[Captain_Townsend]

With FFP, they need to make it fairer. Clubs who develop their own talent should get some sort of sunset clause - an additional 10% wriggle room or something.

Don't hate on me, I haven't done the maths, but surely there has to be a way to rewards clubs who spend a lot developing their talent and making a path for them to the first team.

[Anything11]

2 minutes ago, useless said:

We're more likely to sell the likes of Cash, Mings, McGinn, Buendia, Duran and Bailey before Ramsey, if we really need.

The very article that people are responding to actually says, ideally selling him wouldn't be under consideration and there are other ways of raising the money

Exemple classique de people responding to the headlne and not the actually contents

Don't agree. The sale on a homegrown player far exceeds anything we would fetch for those players other than possibly McGinn.

There is a reason we sold so much youth this last summer instead of developing them here.

[HanoiVillan]

Just now, useless said:

We're more likely to sell the likes of Cash, Mings, McGinn, Buendia, Duran and Bailey before Ramsey, if we really need.

The very article that people are responding to actually says, ideally selling him wouldn't be under consideration and there are other ways of raising the money

Exemple classique de people responding to the headlne and not the actually contents

On the contrary, people are reacting to the contents of the article. The plain English meaning of 'funds must be raised before the end of June to stay compliant with profit and sustainability rules' is we have no choice ('must') but to sell a player this window (the summer window doesn't open until after the end of June). Ornstein gives two example of how the money could be raised: selling Ramsey, or selling Duran. 

It's your claim that we could sell 'Cash, Mings, McGinn, Buendia [or] Bailey' (in the next two days? While two of them are out with long-term injuries? None of them linked with a move?) that is based on nothing in the article. 

[markavfc40]

A fully fit and firing Ramsey (something that due to injuries and his stop/start season) that we haven't seen this season would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me. He is by far our best ball carrier, a very good passer of the ball, two footed with an eye for goal, excellent work rate, good vision and good link up player. He is arguably the most complete player we have and still only 22 with room to improve. He'd be one of the last players I'd be selling and it should take a ridiculous offer for us to even contemplate it

Edited January 29 by markavfc40

[Tom13]

Just now, markavfc40 said:

A fully fit and firing Ramsey (something that due to injuries and his stop/start season) that we haven't seen this season would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me. He is by far our best ball carrier, a very good passer of the ball, two footed with an eye for goal, excellent work rate, good vision and good link up player. He is arguably the most complete player we have and still only 22 with room to improve. He'd be one of the last players I'd be selling and it should take a ridiculous offer for us to even contemplate it

His link up isn't great. He struggles as soon as it gets tight and isn't really one for the one-touch intricate play, just doesn't have it in his locker. The rest I'd agree with.