Next Aston Villa Manager

[striker]

1 hour ago, Eastie said:

This is the key - the championship is indeed changing with new coaches playing football to get results - the old Bruce style of scrapping and scraping results and fighting for results in hard fought battles is being replaced by teams paying fast flowing football and Bruce does not know how to deal with it . 

We need one of these modern thinking managers and jovanovic fits the bill perfectly for me - with our squad he would thrive . 

We're pretty much on the same page with that mate.

I really do wish Bruce had shown something, anything, to not warrant yet another managerial change but can anyone honestly say that during his time here performances and results have been on an upward spiral or have given birth to seeds of hope that Villa fans could hang onto?

He hasn't been able to find a system to suit the players he has purchased. In fact some would argue that most of his signings have regressed in ability since coming here. Bruce has argued that is due to his signings not being able to handle big club atmosphere but if that is the case why did he sign that type of player in the first place? Surely he would have done due diligence on character?

I happen to believe that it's been nothing to do with the traditions of AVFC. For instance you cannot play Davis and Hogan on their own. One must play to complement the other. With Kodjia near fitness watch Villa yet again become a one dimensional team with Bruce playing Kodjia on his own and too much reliance on the spectacular from Villa's star forward which is far too predictable to be consistently successful enough to gain enough points for promotion.

He hasn't got the midfield right either with Hourihane criminally misused until very recently and when given his normal berth look at the return yet Bruce changed system again. No wonder players like Hourihane and Lansbury have found it difficult to settle. It's got **** all to do with not being able to deal with big club expectations. If your going to purchase attacking midfielders then let them do the job you purchased them for and not shoe horn them into something they're not used to.

To commend him he did bring O'Hare through but then dropped him when the kid was flying. Hayes also. I also think Lyden should have been given a chance instead of signing Whelan who to date has been poor.

Bruce then split up a very solid central defensive partnership to bring Terry in. He should have left well alone as Terry's legs have gone.

If as we all believe Bruce is on the verge of being sacked then it is his own doing and he can have no excuses.

Edited September 13, 2017 by striker

[Eastie]

The fact that xia is allowing this farce to continue reflects badly on him - much weaker owner than I originally thought - such a depressing situation .

Edited September 13, 2017 by Eastie

[Nigel]

5 minutes ago, Eastie said:

The fact that xia is allowing this farce to continue reflects badly on him - much weaker owner than I originally thought - such a depressing situation .

Is it weak not doing what everyone wants?

 

[Eastie]

Just now, Nigel said:

Is it weak not doing what everyone wants?

 

When it's doing the wrong thing - yes . 

Rather he held up his hands and admitted he got it wrong and corrected his mistake . 

[Nigel]

Just now, Eastie said:

When it's doing the wrong thing - yes . 

Rather he held up his hands and admitted he got it wrong and corrected his mistake . 

It's easy to talk about this, not so easy when the you control the repercussions!

He can be accused of being stubborn but not weak!

[Nigel]

Further than this only he knows the full picture here. Which managers we can entice ect.

We are blind on a lot of this, just talking with our hearts!

[Eastie]

9 minutes ago, Nigel said:

It's easy to talk about this, not so easy when the you control the repercussions!

He can be accused of being stubborn but not weak!

Depends how much notice he takes of wyness I guess . My post said he's weaker than I originally thought .

Maybe he puts his trust in wyness - either way it's a costly mistake to prolong this .

Edited September 13, 2017 by Eastie

[TRO]

12 hours ago, striker said:

We're pretty much on the same page with that mate.

I really do wish Bruce had shown something, anything, to not warrant yet another managerial change but can anyone honestly say that during his time here performances and results have been on an upward spiral or have given birth to seeds of hope that Villa fans could hang onto?

He hasn't been able to find a system to suit the players he has purchased. In fact some would argue that most of his signings have regressed in ability since coming here. Bruce has argued that is due to his signings not being able to handle big club atmosphere but if that is the case why did he sign that type of player in the first place? Surely he would have done due diligence on character?

I happen to believe that it's been nothing to do with the traditions of AVFC. For instance you cannot play Davis and Hogan on their own. One must play to complement the other. With Kodjia near fitness watch Villa yet again become a one dimensional team with Bruce playing Kodjia on his own and too much reliance on the spectacular from Villa's star forward which is far too predictable to be consistently successful enough to gain enough points for promotion.

He hasn't got the midfield right either with Hourihane criminally misused until very recently and when given his normal berth look at the return yet Bruce changed system again. No wonder players like Hourihane and Lansbury have found it difficult to settle. It's got **** all to do with not being able to deal with big club expectations. If your going to purchase attacking midfielders then let them do the job you purchased them for and not shoe horn them into something they're not used to.

To commend him he did bring O'Hare through but then dropped him when the kid was flying. Hayes also. I also think Lyden should have been given a chance instead of signing Whelan who to date has been poor.

Bruce then split up a very solid central defensive partnership to bring Terry in. He should have left well alone as Terry's legs have gone.

If as we all believe Bruce is on the verge of being sacked then it is his own doing and he can have no excuses.

You make some very valid points.....and clearly things are not right in terms of a cohesive team unit.

I seen an improvement last Night in comparison to a very worrying display against Brentford.....I believe we have a number of problems and then further sub problems, but a couple of the main ones

• We can't seem to find the space that allows our superior technical ability to shine through and sometimes fail to exert the same urgency in closing the opposition down and deny them space that they do to us.
• The other thing is this, we have players who are incomplete and subsequently you change one to gain something and lose something else.....in that sense, to many samey players who are no better than each other and consequently have minimal affect on the team performance and subsequent result....good players but lack that something, someone else has got in the squad.

I am not particularly enamoured in keep changing managers, but accept the argument that not changing for just that reason is shallow.

I hear all the arguments and some have merit, some are just frustration being aired.....I am not privvy to what happens at BMH or privvy to what the players think, but hey that are usually driven by self interest anyway, so not much comfort there.

I would like to mention something that does bother me though and this is in no way trying to negate Steve Bruces down sides, just trying to put some perspective forward.

I think Steve Bruce is doing worse at Present than last Season, here's the reason why,

He came in where I didn't know a win was coming from and arrested the slide and certain introduction of resilience came in to the side, but I would accept the defence was governed by more staff deployed to it, leving the attack under staffed.

However, despite losing his 2 best players who were easily the standout versions, he hit Dec & January like the ugly face of "IRMA" .....We was clearly flirting with pre- Bruce form, but season end he achieved 15 wins from 35 games he presided over in overall terms that is a 42% win ratio.....I accept Win ratio's are not the be all and end all.....but I would equally say its folly to ignore or dismiss them.That ratio stands in good stead in Villa folklore.

This is where I have a tad of empathy with the club.....To dismiss him for that would not fit in well with the industry for further recruitment of his replacement and it may even promote "the job" as a poisoned chalice.

I have equal amounts of empathy for fans who pay good money to go and watch debacles at Cardiff, Reading and Brentford.....and it is also reasonable to say, it can't go on.

I would like him to somehow, get a message across to us of why we are in this situation, in terms that do not incriminate anyone, because we know you can't really do that and the whole question falls flat.

The situation must improve for the future of the club.....I think we all know that, its just a question of hitting on the right solution.

just remember a problem is only a solution waiting to manifest itself.

Edited September 14, 2017 by TRO

[Eastie]

Yes there was an improvement last night but we were against 10 men for an hour tro - not sure it was good enough to be honest - took far long to change things at half time .

we have hit the right solutIon before and then he changed it totally after we had scored eight goals in two games 

long term no faith in him 

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Yes there was an improvement last night but we were against 10 men for an hour tro - not sure it was good enough to be honest - took far long to change things at half time .

we have hit the right solutIon before and then he changed it totally after we had scored eight goals in two games 

long term no faith in him 

I have seen teams struggle against 10 men and so did we.....I think our problems are other than that.

I think Norwich contributed heavily towards our win and that is not trying to take anything away from Bruce or the players.

We have highlighted umpteen times.....give us space and we will perform.....We have got to learn how to work for that Valuable space and then exploit it.....It is abundantly clear to me the word has got round stifle Villa and you will stop them.

We have to circumnavigate this achilles heel.

[Eastie]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I have seen teams struggle against 10 men and so did we.....I think our problems are other than that.

I think Norwich contributed heavily towards our win and that is not trying to take anything away from Bruce or the players.

We have highlighted umpteen times.....give us space and we will perform.....We have got to learn how to work for that Valuable space and then exploit it.....It is abundantly clear to me the word has got round stifle Villa and you will stop them.

We have to circumnavigate this achilles heel.

Bruce is being outthought tactically and the players are being outfought on the pitch - this is what Bruce is paid for to sort it out - other managers are doing their jobs in stopping us .

if he cannot work out the problems he needs to go . 

[alreadyexists]

1 hour ago, Nigel said:

Is it weak not doing what everyone wants?

 

Totally agree Nigel, caving in to pressure is weak, but sticking up for something in spite of what others think is strong. Right and wrong are often subjective, and I think Tony must be fairly ruthless to be a billionaire from business. 

[Eastie]

4 minutes ago, alreadyexists said:

Totally agree Nigel, caving in to pressure is weak, but sticking up for something in spite of what others think is strong. Right and wrong are often subjective, and I think Tony must be fairly ruthless to be a billionaire from business. 

Pity he's not ruthless as a chairman in football - football is very different to his other businesses - maybe he's put his trust in the wrong people . 

 Maybe weak is the wrong word but I sense he probably  knows he's made a mistake and rather than correcting it is hoping it will all come good in the wash - a forlorn  hope . 

Edited September 13, 2017 by Eastie

[TRO]

 

1 hour ago, Nigel said:

Is it weak not doing what everyone wants?

 

·         Whole world minus one with one opinion, has no more right to silence that person than that person has to silence the whole world……John Stuart Mill.

Edited September 13, 2017 by TRO

[Eastie]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

 

·         Whole world minus one with one opinion, has no more right to silence that person than that person has to silence the whole world……John Stuart Mill.

Sounds like something xia would tweet  

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Sounds like something xia would tweet  

the Mrs is out I'm bored and my team don't help.

I was going to go down BMH and let all their tyres down.....with a placard proclaiming " Now you know what is like to be ****** about"

Edited September 13, 2017 by TRO

[alreadyexists]

8 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Pity he's not ruthless as a chairman in football - football is very different to his other businesses - maybe he's put his trust in the wrong people . 

 Maybe weak is the wrong word but I sense he probably  knows he's made a mistake and rather than correcting it is hoping it will all come good in the wash - a forlorn  hope . 

I think sacking RDM after 10 games was on the right side of ruthless... I don't think you get to be a billionaire by making knee jerk reactions though, is imagine some thought must go in to decisions. 

Fwiw I think if Xia had sacked Bruce before Brentford it would've been harsh. Now, is just seems like a matter of time. But as we've said before, the best case scenario is Bruce wins the next 8 games... and I'm sure that's what we all want.

[terrytini]

Wrong thread

Edited September 13, 2017 by terrytini
Wrong thread sorry

[striker]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

You make some very valid points.....and clearly things are not right in terms of a cohesive team unit.

I seen an improvement last Night in comparison to a very worrying display against Brentford.....I believe we have a number of problems and then further sub problems, but a couple of the main ones

• We can't seem to find the space that allows our superior technical ability to shine through and sometimes fail to exert the same urgency in closing the opposition down and deny them space that they do to us.
• The other thing is this, we have players who are incomplete and subsequently you change one to gain something and lose something else.....in that sense, to many samey players who are no better than each other and consequently have minimal affect on the team performance and subsequent result....good players but lack that something, someone else has got in the squad.

I am not particularly enamoured in keep changing managers, but accept the argument that not changing for just that reason is shallow.

I hear all the arguments and some have merit, some are just frustration being aired.....I am not privvy to what happens at BMH or privvy to what the players think, but hey that are usually driven by self interest anyway, so not much comfort there.

I would like to mention something that does bother me though and this is in no way trying to negate Steve Bruces down sides, just trying to put some perspective forward.

I think Steve Bruce is doing worse at Present than last Season, here's the reason why,

He came in where I didn't know a win was coming from and arrested the slide and certain introduction of resilience came in to the side, but I would accept the defence was governed by more staff deployed to it, leving the attack under staffed.

However, despite losing his 2 best players who were easily the standout versions, he hit Dec & January like "IRMA" .....We was clearly flirting with pre Bruce form, but season end he acheived 15 wins from 31 games he presided over in overall terms that is a 48% win ratio.....I accept Win ratio's are not the be all and end all.....but I would equally say its folly to ignore or dismiss them.That ratio stands in good stead in Villa folklore.

This is where I have a tad of empathy with the club.....To dismiss him for that would not fit in well with the industry for further recruitment of his replacement and it may even promote "the job" as a poisoned chalice.

I have equal amounts of empathy for fans who pay good money to go and watch debacles at Cardiff, Reading and Brentford.....and it is also reasonable to say, it can't go on.

I would like him to somehow, get a message across to us of why we are in this situation, in terms that do not incriminate anyone, because we know you can't really do that and the whole question fall flat.

The situation must improve for the future of the club.....I think we all know that, its just a question of hitting on the right solution.

just remember a problem is only a solution waiting to manifest itself.

Excellent post as always Tro.

I think he has consistently answered your question why Villa are in this situation through his interviews. According to Bruce it was too many player changes at once which time was going to heal. With a pre-season and several games into the new season I still haven't seen anything to suggest that Villa are becoming a cohesive unit. That's because he keeps changing it, looking, searching for his magic ingredient. Its like young kids on Christmas morning having too much to choose from and going from one toy to another to try it out but don't know what they like best!

Bruce also suggested that it was taking further time for some of his signings to adjust to a big team mentality. See my answer to that in previous post.

Bruce then recently rounded on the younger players stating they were jaded and that he should have noted it. That's despite those younger players being able to rest through the international break. Tro any manager worth his salt should not criticise younger players being introduced to the team especially in public and when they were doing so well.

He has also implied recently that he hasn't been backed throwing in the statement that Boro had spent 50m on players and were favourites for promotion.

You mention the win ratio and you are correct in implying I should have included that in my previous post to make it more balanced but when Bruce was initially employed as manager his remit was to gain promotion and not to have a win ratio that saw Villa eventually finish 13th in the Championship last season. I'm sure you will note that Villa with a pre-season, seven games into the new season and more new signings on lower to mid Premiership wages collectively forming one of the best squads the Championship, are currently situated 18th!

The overall answer to your question if you asked Bruce is that it is the fault of anyone else but him why Villa are in this situation and that won't change even when he is rightly sacked. 

Edited September 13, 2017 by striker

[TRO]

8 hours ago, Eastie said:

If we were getting the moyes who left Everton I'd tend to agree but he has failed in 3 jobs since then and his stock is low - not sure he can recover from that . 

I agree

I think his swagger has gone, many managers have trouble repeating success they have one spiritual home and his was Everton.....He has been blighted too many times.

Edited September 13, 2017 by TRO