Ron Saunders

[TRO]

13 hours ago, John said:

I think that was the only time he was invited back! 

I really hope we do not wait to give him a fitting tribute until he has joined the HEITS. Both Ron and Peter McParland sadly will not be around forever and I hope both will get a belated yet fitting tribute very, very soon.

He might not depending on how far the dementia has gone but his family would and I'm sure they would do what they could to let him know. In any case he deserves what he has done for the club marked in a fitting way I'm sure he has always known how much we all think of him his reaction at Villa Park to the fans in 2007 showed that for me.    

That's my point John.....its what's right, it's what we must do.

[TRO]

13 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I'm not sure if you've thought that sentence through TRO. We should respect the man's wishes no matter what they are within reason, no matter what mental state he's in.

My point was his mental state of mind is immaterial......we should be sure he's honoured by us and the club properly.

perhaps I never wrote it particularly well.

thanks Dave

[TRO]

On 3/27/2017 at 17:00, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I heard a rumour once, way way back, that he wanted nothing to do with the club after he left, in any way shape or form. He is a very stubborn man, once he takes a dislike to you that's that.

However he then did return in 2007 for the 25 year European Cup anniversary, so I'm not sure what is and isn't the truth.

Unfortunate as it is, I imagine there will only finally be some tribute to him when he's gone. 

There is probably bits of truth everywhere.

Ron was of a certain character, that may not appeal to all.....personally, I admire and respect that type of character......He immersed himself in the day to day rigours of the job fitness was his thing and the 110 % workrate was prevalent, but slightly misleading, he knew how to win and he knew creativity was part of that too.

What Ron created was fantastic, never getting the true accolades and never ever courting them either.Ron got solace from the training field , he was a gladiator and expected his players to play like one.

For those people like Ellis, he was always despised for achieving so much without his involvement, very sad.

Ron was a stubborn man and in some ways that stubbornness got us winning what we did....... a woolly approach or an indecisive manager may not have achieved what he did.

He built about 3 teams, so it was not just a lucky season.....He had a vision and it was great to be a Villa fan while it was going on.

He will always be a hero to me.

Ps with a proper chairman who appreciated him, so much more could have been achieved

Edited March 28, 2017 by TRO

[PaulC]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

That '77 side was so exciting too.......Rimmer in lieu of budgie and we would have won the league.

I think it was the most exciting I have seen. Great guy Budgie but totally bonkers. Only 6pts from the top but I guess that equates to 10 now as it was only 2pts for a win then.

[PaulC]

You think of other managers of that era who have stands named after them. Bobby Robson, Ipswich, Taylor and Clough at Forest, Kendall, bit later at everton. There many more that honour there great managers or players but not us!

[AntrimBlack]

5 hours ago, TRO said:

There is probably bits of truth everywhere.

Ron was of a certain character, that may not appeal to all.....personally, I admire and respect that type of character......He immersed himself in the day to day rigours of the job fitness was his thing and the 110 % workrate was prevalent, but slightly misleading, he knew how to win and he knew creativity was part of that too.

What Ron, created was fantastic, never getting the true accolades and never ever courting them.Ron got solace from the training field , he was a gladiator and expected his players to play like one.

For those people like Ellis, he was always despised for achieving so much without his involvement, very sad.

Ron was a stubborn man and in some ways that stubbornness got us winning what we did....... a woolly approach or an indecisive manager may not have achieved what he did.

He built about 3 teams, so it was not just a lucky season.....He had a vision and it was great to be a Villa fan while it was going on.

He will always be a hero to me.

Ps with a proper chairman who appreciated him, so much more could have been achieved

This. Ellis, over the course of 2 decades, took us from the top to the bottom. If it had not all been about him, financially and his ego, and instead with a good chairman, we would now be one of the much despised Sky luvvies. I would take that. I could put up with being despised for always being one of the top dogs.

[TRO]

14 players my goodness.....that will never be achieved again.

They must have been as fit as "a butchers dog"

[NIVillan]

8 hours ago, TRO said:

That '77 side was so exciting too.......Rimmer in lieu of budgie and we would have won the league.

Didn't that team just get bogged down with games.  Won League Cup but had loads of replays including QPR and of course 3 games against Everton fro the Final.  Also Quarter final of Cup where they lost to Ipswich.

I was only 5 but I was given the programmes from that season which I read everyone cover to cover!

[TRO]

On 3/28/2017 at 19:34, NIVillan said:

Didn't that team just get bogged down with games.  Won League Cup but had loads of replays including QPR and of course 3 games against Everton fro the Final.  Also Quarter final of Cup where they lost to Ipswich.

I was only 5 but I was given the programmes from that season which I read everyone cover to cover!

I was 26 and Hung out with Andy, Jake & Bobby Mac and a bunch of mates.....Its a bit embarrassing now but we called ourselves the " Box O' Toys" ( bit of a drinking/ women culture in those days) .....Particularly in the Aero club  near the airport........If you ever ask Andy he will probably laugh with embarrassment too.

.......but fabulous times.

"I could write a book".

ps they never went out with us after Wednesday night though,when they were playing.

Edited March 30, 2017 by TRO

[John]

2 hours ago, NIVillan said:

Didn't that team just get bogged down with games.  Won League Cup but had loads of replays including QPR and of course 3 games against Everton fro the Final.  Also Quarter final of Cup where they lost to Ipswich.

I was only 5 but I was given the programmes from that season which I read everyone cover to cover!

We lost 2-1 to Manchester United in the FA Cup QF at Old Trafford that year this was the third game we had played in 8 days (the other two were LCF draws with Everton).

We lost 5 of our 16 league games after that 1-2 at Derby, 0-3 at Arsenal, 1-3 at Spurs, 1-2 at Small Heath and 2-3 at Newcastle so there is a case to be made that we did run out of steam in the last couple of months of the season. I myself thought that we were more of a cup side back then and that the number of games we had played before the FA Cup QF (that we took the lead in) might have cost us a serious shot at the FA Cup that year rather than the league title which I felt would prove to be just beyond our reach. Our return to Old Trafford in the following month brought us the LC at the third time of asking and what a night and game that was!   

[romavillan]

that we have Herbert's name on the Witton and no Ron Saunders stand is ridibulous.

[PaulC]

 

13 hours ago, John said:

We lost 2-1 to Manchester United in the FA Cup QF at Old Trafford that year this was the third game we had played in 8 days (the other two were LCF draws with Everton).

We lost 5 of our 16 league games after that 1-2 at Derby, 0-3 at Arsenal, 1-3 at Spurs, 1-2 at Small Heath and 2-3 at Newcastle so there is a case to be made that we did run out of steam in the last couple of months of the season. I myself thought that we were more of a cup side back then and that the number of games we had played before the FA Cup QF (that we took the lead in) might have cost us a serious shot at the FA Cup that year rather than the league title which I felt would prove to be just beyond our reach. Our return to Old Trafford in the following month brought us the LC at the third time of asking and what a night and game that was!   

2 replays with qpr in semis and same in the final. I remember going to wembley and it was 0-0 after 90 mins. no extra time. it was so dumb in those days. I guess players played when they were injured, Saunders would expect nothing less. anybody that wouldn't play with a broken leg was no use to him 

[John]

14 minutes ago, PaulC said:

2 replays with qpr in semis and same in the final. I remember going to wembley and it was 0-0 after 90 mins. no extra time. it was so dumb in those days. I guess players played when they were injured, Saunders would expect nothing less. anybody that wouldn't play with a broken leg was no use to him 

The semi-final was played over 2 legs and there was one replay. Ron picked the same starting line-up in each of these three games. Glory Days! 

[PaulC]

1 hour ago, John said:

The semi-final was played over 2 legs and there was one replay. Ron picked the same starting line-up in each of these three games. Glory Days! 

Ok I remember we had a terrific game against QPR in the 2nd leg. they were a very good team then with the likes of Bowles and Francis who I think was still there.

Edited March 29, 2017 by PaulC

[John]

25 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Ok I remember we had a terrific game against QPR in the 2nd leg. they were a very good team then with the likes of Bowles and Francis who I think was still there.

Yes they had Gerry Francis and Stan Bowles along with the likes of Phil Parkes, John Hollins, Frank McLintock, David Webb, Dave Thomas and Don Masson but we had Brian Little. He was at his very best that season and there was no stopping him. Brian got three in the SF replay and two in the 2nd LCF replay.Both the final at Old Trafford and the semi-final at Highbury that season are among the Villa games that I will never forget.    

[The Fun Factory]

22 hours ago, AntrimBlack said:

This. Ellis, over the course of 2 decades, took us from the top to the bottom. If it had not all been about him, financially and his ego, and instead with a good chairman, we would now be one of the much despised Sky luvvies. I would take that. I could put up with being despised for always being one of the top dogs.

Wellll- that is a slight overreaction. He took Villa from top to bottom then up to runners up twice within 4 years, and then a solid top 8 side for best part of a decade along with 2 trophies. He just stayed on too long- if we sold up in 2000 then the gap between us and the big boys might have been a lot less. 

Bendall got the success but did not do much- he just didn't fall out with Villa's best ever manager until after Saunders had delivered the title. 

Ellis did a lot wrong but he also did some good for Villa- getting in Taylor, Big Ron, Little, took a interest in the youth development, rebuilt the ground (demolishing the trinity is a continuous subject though)- so to say Ellis took us to the bottom is a bit far of the mark. Underachieving yes- but Lerner did not do much in 10 years either did he? 

Edited March 29, 2017 by The Fun Factory

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Wellll- that is a slight overreaction. He took Villa from top to bottom then up to runners up twice within 4 years, and then a solid top 8 side for best part of a decade along with 2 trophies. He just stayed on too long- if we sold up in 2000 then the gap between us and the big boys might have been a lot less. 

Bendall got the success but did not do much- he just didn't fall out with Villa's best ever manager until after Saunders had delivered the title. 

Ellis did a lot wrong but he also did some good for Villa- getting in Taylor, Big Ron, Little, took a interest in the youth development, rebuilt the ground (demolishing the trinity is a continuous subject though)- so to say Ellis took us to the bottom is a bit far of the mark. Underachieving yes- but Lerner did not do much in 10 years either did he? 

Well getting rid of Tony Barton for finishing 10th wasn't a good move (in my view.) either.....after what he had done.( albeit different expectations then I know)

Tony wasn't Ron......as Peter Taylor wasn't Cloughie.......but Tony deserved better than that.

Some say it was Ron's Team that won the Euro cup......but Tony took over in the Feb, I think and we was struggling in the league......If we had of gone down would that have been Ron'S team then, or Tony's.?

Tony was responsible for identifying the new players and done a fine job of that.

Truth is, it was a trio.....Ron,Tony & Roy, they were great.

shame HDE couldn't see it.

Edited March 29, 2017 by TRO

[PaulC]

Its interesting that at the time Vic Crowe was sacked Brian Clough applied for the job. I know we achieved great things under Ron but would we have had even greater success under Brian clough. If you think what he did at forest, Villa a much bigger club, he could have made us into a Liverpool, but we'll never know.

 

Winning the title and the European cup should have been the platform for us to go on and have continued success but it wasn't we just went downhill until the great Graham Taylor arrested the situation and theres one man to blame for that imo. Well maybe the Bendalls too.

Edited March 29, 2017 by PaulC

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Its interesting that at the time Vic Crowe was sacked Brian Clough applied for the job. I know we achieved great things under Ron but would we have had even greater success under Brian clough. If you think what he did at forest, Villa a much bigger club, he could have made us into a Liverpool, but we'll never know.

 

Winning the title and the European cup should have been the platform for us to go on and have continued success but it wasn't we just went downhill until the great Graham Taylor arrested the situation and theres one man to blame for that imo. Well maybe the Bendalls too.

Interestingly Vic did leave a bit of a legacy in terms of the youth.

[PaulC]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

Interestingly Vic did leave a bit of a legacy in terms of the youth.

Yes Little, Gidman, Macdonald, Pimblett was a great prospect too.