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Draw; or is it?


turvontour
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Its a draw, honours even at Villa Park, a share of the spoils. But is it? Not really. 

A share of the spoils would be 1.5 points, as the spoils are presumably 3 points, so this is more of an OK loss in my book.

Im fascinated by teams attitudes to drawing games and particularly Villa's and some of the fans. A mate of mine said earlier, "well, at least we drew". As have many on this forum, "still unbeaten" etc.

Very simple, if you win all your games in a season, you win the league. If you draw all your games in a season you go down. If you lose all your games in a season you finish bottom. You can be unbeaten, and go down. Thats how bad drawing games consistently is.

We've now drawn 12 games this season. If it was a share of the spoils in the truest sense then we would have 6 more points and be on the verge of the playoffs.

Now im not saying that the players have it in them necassarily to turn these draws into victories, im just cautious of the attitude that i feel has set in around the club. Its something that absolutely has to change next season if there's any chance of promotion. 

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29 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

Very good post turvontour, I can't really disagree with any of it. I guess it shows how important scoring goals really is

Yes, and i can understand why the fans are accepting of draws after the last 5 years of rubbish. I mean, drawing 2-2 with Preston feels better than losing to 2-0 to CrystalPalace. But it doesnt escape the fact that they are both bad results.

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Must admit when I saw this thread I thought this might be something to do with Beckford coming on....

Didn't he get two red cards in two games...isn't that a six match ban? 

Was surprised to see him come on today but don't know how many games he's missed.

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Lets go back to 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw then which would give us "a share of the spoils". It would have helped us big time this season but a point is still better than none at all although as you rightly say not as good as a win and you can have too many draws, too many defeats but never too many wins. ;)   

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5 hours ago, turvontour said:

Its a draw, honours even at Villa Park, a share of the spoils. But is it? Not really. 

A share of the spoils would be 1.5 points, as the spoils are presumably 3 points, so this is more of an OK loss in my book.

Im fascinated by teams attitudes to drawing games and particularly Villa's and some of the fans. A mate of mine said earlier, "well, at least we drew". As have many on this forum, "still unbeaten" etc.

I'm not sure how old you are, but it used to be 2 points for a win - thats where the term "share of the spoils" came from and is still used today out of habit i suppose. When i was first getting into football in the late 80s it was already 3 points for a win here, but  Scotland still had 2 points for a win.

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It's an argument I've often had, but if you 'went for it' every game that was close, even with only a 50% success rate you'd do better than holding on for the draw.

20 matches with a draw; 20pts

20 matches with, 10W & 10L; 30pts

Statistically that's indisputable, but in reality I'm sure it's been proven to be unrealistic or something. Technically even only a 35% success rate would leave you 'ahead' of holding on for a draw in each of those 20 matches. That's also assuming that each failure to win whilst properly going 'gungho' resulted in a loss and not a draw.

Interesting...but irrelevant.

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That's why they increased it to 3 points for a win. When it was 2 for a win, settling for a draw - a 'share of the spoils' - was more appealing than going for the win and risk losing. So the last 10-15 of matches was just a display of sidewards passing. 

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6 hours ago, jackbauer24 said:

It's an argument I've often had, but if you 'went for it' every game that was close, even with only a 50% success rate you'd do better than holding on for the draw.

20 matches with a draw; 20pts

20 matches with, 10W & 10L; 30pts

Statistically that's indisputable, but in reality I'm sure it's been proven to be unrealistic or something. Technically even only a 35% success rate would leave you 'ahead' of holding on for a draw in each of those 20 matches. That's also assuming that each failure to win whilst properly going 'gungho' resulted in a loss and not a draw.

Interesting...but irrelevant.

I agree with all of that apart from the last sentence. One of the key reasons that we wont be going up this season is that we draw half of our matches. 

I just feel that as a club we have become fairly accepting of that type of result and that we need to shake it by next season if we want to be in the mix. Maybe im wrong, perhaps its just the few people i spoke to yesterday. Maybe Bruce is in there hammering them at full time saying that we absolutely cant afford to draw anymore games in this division. I guess we'll never now.

I think Newcastles record sums it up, one draw this season, and that was against us......

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I get what you're saying there but off the back of last season I'm just happy we've found a way to stop losing.

If you had said to me in May that the following January we would be unbeaten at home and 3 wins off the playoffs I'd have laughed.

I just see it as learning to walk again before we start running.

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11 hours ago, Qwpzxjor1 said:

That's why they increased it to 3 points for a win. When it was 2 for a win, settling for a draw - a 'share of the spoils' - was more appealing than going for the win and risk losing. So the last 10-15 of matches was just a display of sidewards passing. 

A_Westwood likes this :thumb:

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