The retro gaming thread!

[Ingram85]

I’ve just bought an mclassic hdmi device. When it arrives my first experiments will be Wii games running on Wii U. Expecting good things. I’m hoping, as I have a decent Wii hdmi pass through device that GC games will also benefit. 

It still pisses me off to this day that PAL OG Xbox’s didn’t have HD capabilities like the ntsc one does. It’s really not fair that and Im scared of soft/hard mods. 

PS2 I’ve just given up with entirely. No idea how to get that looking good at all outside of £££ mega bucks being thrown at OSSC/Framemeister devices and whatnot. 

If the mclassic gets Wii and GC games looking good that’ll be a big boost to my retro gaming.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Ingram85

[Keyblade]

8 hours ago, Ingram85 said:

I’ve just bought an mclassic hdmi device. When it arrives my first experiments will be Wii games running on Wii U. Expecting good things. I’m hoping, as I have a decent Wii hdmi pass through device that GC games will also benefit. 

It still pisses me off to this day that PAL OG Xbox’s didn’t have HD capabilities like the ntsc one does. It’s really not fair that and Im scared of soft/hard mods. 

PS2 I’ve just given up with entirely. No idea how to get that looking good at all outside of £££ mega bucks being thrown at OSSC/Framemeister devices and whatnot. 

If the mclassic gets Wii and GC games looking good that’ll be a big boost to my retro gaming.

PS2 is really annoying. Backwards compatible PS3's make it look pretty nice but those are like 16 years old and so unreliable it's not even worth getting one anymore. 

I thought Wii games looked pretty good with the Wii U's upscaling, much better than the original Wii. Be interested to know how the mClassic improves on this. The Wii is hopeless on an HDTV because it has this inherent blur on the horizontal axis. Even on the OSSC it looks like crap. GC games on the Wii are super crisp though ironically so I'm guessing that doesn't apply there.

Honestly though, I'd highly recommend you invest in the Retrotink 5X. That will solve all of your retro gaming needs on an HDTV for the next decade imo. Costs a fair bit but it is an incredible piece of kit. Makes the PS2 look really good with its multitude of deinterlacing options. My favourite is the "bob scanlines" mode which really recreates the look of 480i on a CRT quite well from what I've seen. Its regular scanlines for 240p content is honestly the best I've ever seen:

It even has support up to 1440p and I think 4K is planned in a future firmware update.

[Ingram85]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

PS2 is really annoying. Backwards compatible PS3's make it look pretty nice but those are like 16 years old and so unreliable it's not even worth getting one anymore. 

I thought Wii games looked pretty good with the Wii U's upscaling, much better than the original Wii. Be interested to know how the mClassic improves on this. The Wii is hopeless on an HDTV because it has this inherent blur on the horizontal axis. Even on the OSSC it looks like crap. GC games on the Wii are super crisp though ironically so I'm guessing that doesn't apply there.

Honestly though, I'd highly recommend you invest in the Retrotink 5X. That will solve all of your retro gaming needs on an HDTV for the next decade imo. Costs a fair bit but it is an incredible piece of kit. Makes the PS2 look really good with its multitude of deinterlacing options. My favourite is the "bob scanlines" mode which really recreates the look of 480i on a CRT quite well from what I've seen. Its regular scanlines for 240p content is honestly the best I've ever seen:

It even has support up to 1440p and I think 4K is planned in a future firmware update.

Thanks for this, how much is the retrotink? It’s food for thought re: PS2

With regards to GC games on Wii, if my hdmi converter does a poor job couple with the mclassic I think I may get some Wii component cables and a component to hdmi converter instead and use that with the mclassic. 

Just leaves the dumbass pal Xbox to sort then.

 

[Keyblade]

13 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

Thanks for this, how much is the retrotink? It’s food for thought re: PS2

With regards to GC games on Wii, if my hdmi converter does a poor job couple with the mclassic I think I may get some Wii component cables and a component to hdmi converter instead and use that with the mclassic. 

Just leaves the dumbass pal Xbox to sort then.

 

I think it's $300 USD. I think you get diminishing returns on the mClassic (which is already like half that price) for retro consoles. I was seriously considering one at one point. I think where it truly shines is with consoles like the PS3 and the Switch.

If you get Wii component cables you're setting yourself up for the best possible picture. The HDMI converters are almost all notoriously bad. They add weird post-processing effects and have washed out colours and crush blacks. 

The Retrotink is such a great device because it supports most consoles you throw at it. It has composite, component, s-video and even SCART input and it can handle a multitude of signals. It's even better than the OSSC because it doesn't have compatibility issues with modern TV's (the OSSC is a bit of a crapshoot, it literally spits back the weird old-school off-spec refresh rates from the consoles and not every TV can recognize the signal).

Quote

• The first automatic optimal phase algorithm to produce the sharpest image with zero adjustments needed beyond selecting the base mode.
• The first custom developed FPGA-based Motion Adaptive Deinterlacing algorithm specifically for games to make 480i titles shine without adding lag or flicker.
• The first high resolution (1080p and above) video scaler that is capable of covering virtually all analog inputs: composite, S-video, component and RGB out of the box.
• Fully compliant CEA-861 standard 1080p modes to maximize compatibility across displays and capture cards.
• High quality polyphase scaling at both integer and non-integer factors for sharp pixels without shimmer.
• Seamless handling of resolution switches for drop free gaming on titles that switch between 240p and 480i.

The last 3 points are pretty important I think (especially the last one. If you've ever run into the "Chrono Cross problem" you'll know how annoying that is). Check out this video. These guys go in way more depth than I ever could.

 

[Ingram85]

22 hours ago, Keyblade said:

I think it's $300 USD. I think you get diminishing returns on the mClassic (which is already like half that price) for retro consoles. I was seriously considering one at one point. I think where it truly shines is with consoles like the PS3 and the Switch.

If you get Wii component cables you're setting yourself up for the best possible picture. The HDMI converters are almost all notoriously bad. They add weird post-processing effects and have washed out colours and crush blacks. 

The Retrotink is such a great device because it supports most consoles you throw at it. It has composite, component, s-video and even SCART input and it can handle a multitude of signals. It's even better than the OSSC because it doesn't have compatibility issues with modern TV's (the OSSC is a bit of a crapshoot, it literally spits back the weird old-school off-spec refresh rates from the consoles and not every TV can recognize the signal).

The last 3 points are pretty important I think (especially the last one. If you've ever run into the "Chrono Cross problem" you'll know how annoying that is). Check out this video. These guys go in way more depth than I ever could.

 

I watched this and also a few others (MVG has a good one also). My question is, PAL Xbox only does 480i, the retrotink takes a 480i input, would this actually work and improve a PAL Xbox image? I can’t seem to find a definitive answer anywhere, in theory it would work wouldn’t it? 

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

I watched this and also a few others (MVG has a good one also). My question is, PAL Xbox only does 480i, the retrotink takes a 480i input, would this actually work and improve a PAL Xbox image? I can’t seem to find a definitive answer anywhere, in theory it would work wouldn’t it? 

The Retrotink is the absolute best thing you can get for 480i images, even better than the Framemeister. It can do a deinterlace that gets it to look pretty much like 480p (motion adaptive), or it can do the simulated CRT look which I'm partial to.

How were you playing the XBox before out of curiosity? 480i handling is pretty terrible by most everything really. If you were using some kind of converter, I would suggest just sending the unaltered signal to your TV and let it do the deinterlacing as most X-HDMI converters on the market do something messed up to the signal.

Modern TV's deinterlacing have actually become really good. I have a 2018 Sony TV and its deinterlacing looks pretty much indistinguishable from this other scaler I have that does motion adaptive deinterlacing (the GBS-Control...speaking of which, this is a really good, affordable option that I forgot to mention).

[Ingram85]

9 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

The Retrotink is the absolute best thing you can get for 480i images, even better than the Framemeister. It can do a deinterlace that gets it to look pretty much like 480p (motion adaptive), or it can do the simulated CRT look which I'm partial to.

How were you playing the XBox before out of curiosity? 480i handling is pretty terrible by most everything really. If you were using some kind of converter, I would suggest just sending the unaltered signal to your TV and let it do the deinterlacing as most X-HDMI converters on the market do something messed up to the signal.

Modern TV's deinterlacing have actually become really good. I have a 2018 Sony TV and its deinterlacing looks pretty much indistinguishable from this other scaler I have that does motion adaptive deinterlacing (the GBS-Control...speaking of which, this is a really good, affordable option that I forgot to mention).

I’ve tried a few ways, I bought an Xbox scart lead to connect to my crt which is good enough for now but I’d like to get it looking good on my 4K TV so I can rely less on my crt.

I did get it hooked up to my modern set but I’d have to rifle through my cables box to find whatever cable I used but I suspect it was the standard RCA/composite and no surprise it looked horrendous. 

I’ve bought a steam deck to cut down on a lot of Xbox titles and I’ll use the steam deck dock to play them on my 4K tv, but that still leaves 60% of my OG xbox games left. 

It eats at me all the time that the PAL Xbox is so gimped for absolutely no reason. 

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, Ingram85 said:

I’ve tried a few ways, I bought an Xbox scart lead to connect to my crt which is good enough for now but I’d like to get it looking good on my 4K TV so I can rely less on my crt.

I did get it hooked up to my modern set but I’d have to rifle through my cables box to find whatever cable I used but I suspect it was the standard RCA/composite and no surprise it looked horrendous. 

I’ve bought a steam deck to cut down on a lot of Xbox titles and I’ll use the steam deck dock to play them on my 4K tv, but that still leaves 60% of my OG xbox games left. 

It eats at me all the time that the PAL Xbox is so gimped for absolutely no reason. 

Yeah that shocked me that PAL Xbox can only do 480i because I'm pretty sure it could even do 720p in other regions, forget about 480p. Yeah if you're using composite, it's not likely to look good on a modern TV. CRT's used to make composite look tolerable. Blown up to 4K and you start to see the low quality signal. Did you hook it up directly to a TV or use a converter? Those can make things even worse than they need to be. 

[Ingram85]

I also got my mclassic today. Been playing Metroid Prime Trilogy Wii and Mario Kart Wii through the Wii U all evening. It’s night and day compared to the standard Wii U up scaling, not life transforming but it makes the old games more palatable.

I haven’t had a chance to try it with my wii2hdmi converter yet for GC games although I suspect it won’t be much good unless my converter performs flawlessly as a signal pass through, I suspect it degrades the image slightly which means the mclassic can only do so much with compared with a lossless source.

[Ingram85]

6 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Yeah that shocked me that PAL Xbox can only do 480i because I'm pretty sure it could even do 720p in other regions, forget about 480p. Yeah if you're using composite, it's not likely to look good on a modern TV. CRT's used to make composite look tolerable. Blown up to 4K and you start to see the low quality signal. Did you hook it up directly to a TV or use a converter? Those can make things even worse than they need to be. 

Straight up, I haven’t got a converter for Xbox. I’m hesitant to buy the RT5X as I’d want to know for sure that on a 4kTV it did a genuinely decent job of upscaling the original 480i image. I think I have a Xbox component cable somewhere which could help things. A Xbox > Component > RT5X > hdmi > 4KTV set up is what I’m hoping saves the day. Just it seems no one on the planet has actually tested it with a PAL Xbox. Maybe it’s a fruitless endeavour and I should stick with the CRT. My head hurts. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Ingram85

[Keyblade]

4 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

Straight up, I haven’t got a converter for Xbox. I’m hesitant to buy the RT5X as I’d want to know for sure that on a 4kTV it did a genuinely decent job of upscaling the original 480i image. I think I have a Xbox component cable somewhere which could help things. A Xbox > Component > RT5X > hdmi > 4KTV set up is what I’m hoping saves the day. Just it seems no one on the planet has actually tested it with a PAL Xbox. Maybe it’s a fruitless endeavour and I should stick with the CRT. My head hurts. 

Ah okay. That's the absolute best setup you can get. Plus all your other consoles will benefit too.

The GBS-Control I mentioned can be a cheap option. You can even test the Xbox on it as it does the same motion adaptive deinterlacing that the Retrotink does. It takes in component, SCART and VGA.

[Ingram85]

33 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Ah okay. That's the absolute best setup you can get. Plus all your other consoles will benefit too.

The GBS-Control I mentioned can be a cheap option. You can even test the Xbox on it as it does the same motion adaptive deinterlacing that the Retrotink does. It takes in component, SCART and VGA.

Yeah I might have to look at solutions on a console to console to basis as I can’t justify £270 plus customs/shipping (£300+) for the RT5X. Not too familiar with the GBS Control devices? Any manufacturers/brands trusted to go with?

I’ve found something called the Xedusa for Xbox which may do the same thing but for £70 shipped. Saw it in an Adam Koralik vid.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Ingram85

[Keyblade]

57 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

Yeah I might have to look at solutions on a console to console to basis as I can’t justify £270 plus customs/shipping (£300+) for the RT5X. Not too familiar with the GBS Control devices? Any manufacturers/brands trusted to go with?

I’ve found something called the Xedusa for Xbox which may do the same thing but for £70 shipped. Saw it in an Adam Koralik vid.

Depending on how many consoles you have, that can add up, but I feel you...it's a lot. 

I saw this, seems pretty reasonable for the standard version. You can also get it on AliExpress. It's open source so anyone can build it with the easily available parts (you can even do it yourself if you're so inclined).

Not sure about the Xedusa, I know next to nothing about Xbox. I've never had a single Xbox system in my life lol. I see it's made by the Beharbros which make quality stuff for sure. Seems like it gets the best quality out of your Xbox (component) and does a clean conversion to HDMI. Sounds like exactly what you're looking for.

What I'm not sure of is how the Xbox signal works. PAL consoles can only do 480i, but I'm wondering if that's a restriction done just before the signal is converted to analog. Since the Xedusa gets the digital signal straight from the board and bypasses the analog conversion, maybe it can unlock the higher resolutions? Interesting thought.

[Ingram85]

Metroid Prime is 1/5th of a Century old today. Blimey. After the Vice City Anniversary and this I think it’s time I bought a dressing gown and some werthers originals. Jeez. 

Now how about a HD Trilogy for switch Ninty you lazy bastards! 

[Tegis]

Cruising in 2nd place. Liverpool are impossible

 

[Demitri_C]

21 hours ago, Tegis said:

Cruising in 2nd place. Liverpool are impossible

 

I literally want to get CM  97/98 out and play it. Man what epic gamws they were. Shamw you cant really play them anymore

[Tegis]

44 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I literally want to get CM  97/98 out and play it. Man what epic gamws they were. Shamw you cant really play them anymore

Way to new, that's 93-94

You can scratch the itch for 97 in the browser here. Saving is the limit so you have to play it in a single go.

https://www.myabandonware.com/game/championship-manager-season-97-98-2db/play-2db

Edited November 15, 2022 by Tegis

[Demitri_C]

On 15/11/2022 at 19:41, Tegis said:

Way to new, that's 93-94

You can scratch the itch for 97 in the browser here. Saving is the limit so you have to play it in a single go.

https://www.myabandonware.com/game/championship-manager-season-97-98-2db/play-2db

Thanks ill give this a go! I wonder if u buy the old cds if they would work on todays laptops?

[Jonesy7211]

On 17/11/2022 at 07:17, Demitri_C said:

Thanks ill give this a go! I wonder if u buy the old cds if they would work on todays laptops?

Install DOSBox and download the files from here.

Quote

Championship Manager

 

Old versions of CM with download links and a dedicated LLMPicker for each version

https://www.the9llamas.com/retro/championship-manager?fbclid=IwAR2dTyWhlYb5CeZR9Ks9oGaSxy_ILQLSZhnNVLUVmDsGK3iLw8g2qS3etOM

Still play these wonderful early CM games. On the link there's multiple versions of 93/94, CM1, and Italia, and Norge. There's an offline save editor in one of the downloads too which works on all the English versions of CM 93/94.

[Designer1]

The good lady wife is getting me an Amiga A500 Mini for Xmas to go with my C64 Mini.

Apart from the PS3 it's probably my favourite game machine of all time so I'm pretty excited already