Steve Bruce

[TRO]

4 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

I posted the humble pie gif straight after the match last night, and directed it at myself.

It's not to say that he's proven everyone wrong, because clearly that's not the case.  We have some green shoots, and reasons for optimism, nothing more.

But speaking for myself, I just didn't think it was in his locker to set us up like this, to have us trying this type of football and to have us scoring goals.  As much as we can all say "it was only Burton", I didn't think we'd be spanking ANYONE 4-0 on their own patch.  It was Burton's heaviest home defeat at this level, and only their second defeat in about 7 league games.

For me personally, it was a delicious slice of humble pie.  It wasn't the whole pie.  It wasn't "look how wrong I was, we're going to stroll to the title".  But it was definitely something that, until 3 games ago, I thought wasn't going to happen at all under this manager.

I appreciate your sentiments, but i do not share the view that SB has not got it in his locker to play the kind if football that has got us believing again.....however i agree about the green shoots.

i think it was circumstances and that is down to interpretation.

He has never had a top job, a bit like Neil Warnock if you like and has always had to play it fairly modestly in the transfer market.

He took over us when were in serious state ( and that is no disrespect to RDM either) his first job was to stop the haemarroging, now this is where i think a bit of interpretation between the fans and SB went amiss.

How long does it take to build a squad that takes you away from just holding the fort to expansive entertaining football.....i think he needed a nudge and i think the fans gave it to him.

We all know the squad on paper is in a much better position to morph in to playing that expansive football, whereas last season we was not and it could have undone us.

The "time" we often mention is partly intangible, because none of us know how long these things take.....for sure we can all cite examples, but all clubs have unique circumstances that are difficult to emulate.

I think we have a guy in charge who is a safe pair of hands, not a footballing confusious, but a guy who knows his way around this division, has a good working relationship with steve round and Keith Wyness and i feel a relationship with the owner, where they both want the same thing.

Aston Villa need to win their football matches, then the personalities will disappear and we can get back to a unified ground and us all singing of the same hymn sheet.

and our owner can talk to us again with joy.....just kidding.

Edited September 27, 2017 by TRO

[Rugeley Villa]

I definitely think steve was feeling the pressure and it was showing. I also believe he still believed in himself which is good. Let's hope he's turned it around and keeps this good run going. Also I hope when we have a bit of a bad run of a couple of defeats on the bounce or winless in four that the fans don't jump on him. 

[sidcow]

3 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

I posted the humble pie gif straight after the match last night, and directed it at myself.

It's not to say that he's proven everyone wrong, because clearly that's not the case.  We have some green shoots, and reasons for optimism, nothing more.

But speaking for myself, I just didn't think it was in his locker to set us up like this, to have us trying this type of football and to have us scoring goals.  As much as we can all say "it was only Burton", I didn't think we'd be spanking ANYONE 4-0 on their own patch.  It was Burton's heaviest home defeat at this level, and only their second defeat in about 7 league games.

For me personally, it was a delicious slice of humble pie.  It wasn't the whole pie.  It wasn't "look how wrong I was, we're going to stroll to the title".  But it was definitely something that, until 3 games ago, I thought wasn't going to happen at all under this manager.

It's nowhere near time for humble pie. 

Win against Bolton and I might start rummaging in the fridge. 

Beat Wolves and the oven will be on. This run is going to have to continue for sometime yet though before I am munching away, we have been that bad. 

My heart is hoping for a smothering of ketchup with a side order of chips off Bruce's shoulder. 

My head says the pie will be on the side cooling wrapped in tinfoil by Christmas. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by sidcow

[TRO]

1 hour ago, macandally said:

Let's see where we are come Christmas eh?  For me he has just done what people have been slating him for over the last 40 games.  Get on the front foot, stop being so defensive and pick a settled team for a few weeks.  Look what that brings, pity it has taken so long, we might already be a league above!

But that 40 games as you nonchalantly dismiss is a period of time he has been trying to reverse our fortunes......by bringing players in and stopping the rot of 5 wins in 18 months.it may not be to all our liking, but is there a defined timescale.

you , me or anyone else do not know how long these things take, no one does.

the last few games, results have been encouraging, no more, no less.....but lets stop beating ourselves up......its promising and we should embrace that.

whether folk have got SB right or wrong, who gives a ****' We need to unite and drive this team over the line with sheer encouragement.

I am tired of listening to negative talk of Bruce can't do this Bruce can't do that.

Well if he can win 3 on the bounce, he can win. 13 or 23.

He makes mistakes like we all do......lets concentrate of the good bits.

We just need to be winning games......we ALL know that.

Edited September 27, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

I definitely think steve was feeling the pressure and it was showing. I also believe he still believed in himself which is good. Let's hope he's turned it around and keeps this good run going. Also I hope when we have a bit of a bad run of a couple of defeats on the bounce or winless in four that the fans don't jump on him. 

I think you make an excellent point.

I think he was too.....the old saying who motivates the manager, he is only human too.

We are all good at supporting a team like now, its easy.it was easy in the late 70's early 80's.....our away fans are magnificent for what they have had to endure.

sometimes its when they are struggling, they need us......i don't think we quite get that.

However, we have to dig deep too.

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by TRO

[Grasshopper]

5 hours ago, terrytini said:

I've not disagreed with you for a while GH but I disagree on this bit.

Weve had good players all along. The problem has been twofold in that (a) Bruce hasn't instilled anything resembling a style into them and (b) he's been too cautious, too defensive. 

what are you disagreeing with?

It's the lack of style & Defensive cautious approach which is what doesnt suit the better players we have.

No Style , suits Hutton, Bacuna and Gaby

5 hours ago, terrytini said:

Whether it lasts or not is another issue ( I doubt it) but last nights performance and to a lesser extent the weekend ( I don't go along with those who have found others as well) showed evidence of a style ( ok not to everyone's tastes - actually I quite like it) and more crucially Bruce removing the caution.

That is down to him - imo Late in the day - and has produced results.

 

I didnt see the game, but I'm happy with the 3 points and if we played well (which seems to be) then great. Because thats exactly why I, you and others have critisized the hoofball.

Now here's hoping he doesnt revert to type like post Norwich/Wigan.

Somehow it's in me to believe he will revert at some point, I wonder why that is?

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

what are you disagreeing with?

It's the lack of style & Defensive cautious approach which is what doesnt suit the better players we have.

No Style , suits Hutton, Bacuna and Gaby

I didnt see the game, but I'm happy with the 3 points and if we played well (which seems to be) then great. Because thats exactly why I, you and others have critisized the hoofball.

Now here's hoping he doesnt revert to type like post Norwich/Wigan.

Somehow it's in me to believe he will revert at some point, I wonder why that is?

He won't ........its called development.

we have developed past that......but there will be times, when we don't get our own way and the expansive play is hard to impliment and we are drawn in to the ugly stuff, and we need to cope with that too.

Managers styles are not always set in tablets of stone......cardiff the other night played some enterprising stuff, but NW has a reputation for dour football.

sometimes necessity is the mother of invention.....we sometimes need to chill and have belief.

Edited September 27, 2017 by TRO

[Rugeley Villa]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think you make an excellent point.

I think he was too.....the old saying who motivates the manager, he is only human too.

We are all good at supporting a team like now, its easy.it was easy in the late 70's early 80's.....our away fans are magnificent for what they have had to endure.

sometimes its when they are struggling, they need us......i don't think we quite get that.

However, we have to dig deep too.

 

You should support the team whether it's doing well or not. A club like us should never have a decrease in away support because we are having a bad season. Leeds are a great example of staying loyal on the road. As sad as it sounds I was lay in bed with a big stonker last night, not because I was getting some, but because I was excited about the villa for once. I lay there wondering whether Steve was doing the same because it's been a while since things have been going his way. I genuinely want him to be the man who takes us back up. Long way to go yet though. 

[Grasshopper]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Well said Terry.....but can you not see that posts like GH's  just wind folk up.....and just add fuel to the flames of disagreement....as do the others with the contrasting view. 

Excuse me?

You outposted everyone, were you winding people up?

I post my opinion and always explain why.

The most wind-up thing is that it seems just to have an "anti-bruce" view goes against the grain. The only fact on Bruces side is that he's still in the job. We werent promoted last season cos we finished 13th, AND we are still NOT in 1st/2nd now. Finishing 3rd or 6th is irrelevant as its who wins the final (I dont think my nerves or heart could handle that)

1 hour ago, TRO said:

GH is entitled to his opinion....but as we all know, this intransigence.....just invites further intransigence in the opposite direction. 

well at least that is true

1 hour ago, TRO said:

We all know SB is not in the top ten of world managers.....but for where we fell to a pragmatic style like is was, was probably the best bet......don't forget, the club, the behind the scenes had problems, not just on the pitch.

I have always liked Neil Warnock but i know his limitations just like our Steve.

He has had a difficult job and the things we have been calling for, perhaps he felt was too soon, and that more time was required, before he succumbed to our pleas.....its not a get out of jail free card, just an opinion.

we all need to respect each others opinions are get on with the job of enjoying Aston Villa rise like a phoenix from the ashes.

If he stays - he must deliver

if not - he must go

Who eats the humble pie is neither here or there

[TRO]

35 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

You should support the team whether it's doing well or not. A club like us should never have a decrease in away support because we are having a bad season. Leeds are a great example of staying loyal on the road. As sad as it sounds I was lay in bed with a big stonker last night, not because I was getting some, but because I was excited about the villa for once. I lay there wondering whether Steve was doing the same because it's been a while since things have been going his way. I genuinely want him to be the man who takes us back up. Long way to go yet though. 

I think there is a difference between knowing what to do and it happening or working.

I have never doubted he knows what he is doing.....However it has not always worked.

and I accept some of the comments against him.

I get some of the criticisms and the difference of opinion, who should be playing and who should not.....me not a big Bacuna fan , so i got the criticism there.

but it's a big picture, we can't agree with the manager all the time....plus the fact form changes and our opinions on players naturally change too.

The wins will have us all on the same hymn sheet.

Edited September 27, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

27 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

Excuse me?

You outposted everyone, were you winding people up?

I post my opinion and always explain why.

The most wind-up thing is that it seems just to have an "anti-bruce" view goes against the grain. The only fact on Bruces side is that he's still in the job. We werent promoted last season cos we finished 13th, AND we are still NOT in 1st/2nd now. Finishing 3rd or 6th is irrelevant as its who wins the final (I dont think my nerves or heart could handle that)

well at least that is true

If he stays - he must deliver

if not - he must go

Who eats the humble pie is neither here or there

GH there is nothing in life that is all bad, everything if we search hard enough has a bit of good.

you have never troubled yourself to look for the slightest bit of good in Steve Bruce no matter how trivial.....I find that intransigent and mean.

I take it all the footballing philosophies you call on, but you have rarely seen his point of view, even if you disagreed with him.....one of stopping the rot, even if it was boring.

i have understood your position and acknowledged the football was turgid, but not once did you ever acknowledge that it could be that the work needed time to buy players and blend them.....it was always now, why are we crap now.....why is it not happening now.

We all have differences of opinion ,i accept that, i can't remember you ever seeing the other side of the coin, even when other opinions supporting Bruce was put forward.

so sorry mate, i think you could of made more of an effort of at least acknowledging another point of view.

but hey.......lets just support the Villa.

Edited September 27, 2017 by TRO

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

Yes. Hence "form". 

Well yes. Form is over a small period of time, picking a small sample of games to class it as form for something required over a long period of games is daft and pointless. 

We're in promotion form yet league position, points and average points are not promotion, makes perfect sense. 

It's the same as saying Adomah is in Ballon dor winning form, he isn't, he's in good form in a small sample of games recently. 

 

[Rugeley Villa]

26 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think there is a difference between knowing what to do and it happening or working.

I have never doubted he knows what he is doing.....However it has not always worked.

and I accept some of the comments against him.

I get some of the criticisms and the difference of opinion, who should be playing and who should not.....me not a big Bacuna fan , so i got the criticism there.

bit its a big picture, we can't agree with the manager all the time....plus the fact form changes and our opinions on players naturally change too.

The wins will have us all on the same hymn sheet.

Pressure does funny things to people and people act in a way that's not normal for that person. Obviously more mistakes can happen under pressure and that's what was happening to Bruce and the players. Make no doubt about it, there is huge pressure at this club. 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Pressure does funny things to people and people act in a way that's not normal for that person. Obviously more mistakes can happen under pressure and that's what was happening to Bruce and the players. Make no doubt about it, there is huge pressure at this club. 

I totally agree.

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Well yes. Form is over a small period of time, picking a small sample of games to class it as form for something required over a long period of games is daft and pointless. 

We're in promotion form yet league position, points and average points are not promotion, makes perfect sense. 

It's the same as saying Adomah is in Ballon dor winning form, he isn't, he's in good form in a small sample of games recently. 

 

True.

but the league position is only reflective of the amount of games played.

if we maintained this form for say 75% of the season as opposed to 25% currently.....we would be in the top 2 positions.

there is a danger though of over analysing.

if we win all our games, you don't have to check on any table.

[Stevo985]

29 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Well yes. Form is over a small period of time, picking a small sample of games to class it as form for something required over a long period of games is daft and pointless. 

We're in promotion form yet league position, points and average points are not promotion, makes perfect sense. 

It's the same as saying Adomah is in Ballon dor winning form, he isn't, he's in good form in a small sample of games recently. 

 

This is so pedantic.

Form is generally accepted to be 5 or 6 games.

If you're bottom of the league, but then you win your next 6, you've produced title winning form. It doesn't matter that you're not going to win the league.

 

We are currently producing promotion form. That doesn't mean we're going to get promoted.

[BigJim]

SB has changed things more than I dared believe he could. Long way to go though, as has been said many times.

One probably unrelated thing I find pleasing is that we're getting a lot of the rub of the green lately: Penalty decisions, that "save" by Johnstone against Forest, the 2nd (mis-hit) and 3rd (deflected) goals against Burton, just to name a few things. The sort of thing we have seen go against us a lot in recent seasons. Fortune favours the brave?

 

[Eastie]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I think there is a difference between knowing what to do and it happening or working.

I have never doubted he knows what he is doing.....However it has not always worked.

and I accept some of the comments against him.

I get some of the criticisms and the difference of opinion, who should be playing and who should not.....me not a big Bacuna fan , so i got the criticism there.

but it's a big picture, we can't agree with the manager all the time....plus the fact form changes and our opinions on players naturally change too.

The wins will have us all on the same hymn sheet.

Only saw highlights as I'm away in Italy but it looked a very good display - in fairness to Bruce he seems to have turned things around and fair play for now , however let's not forget many of his critics have urged him to play on the front foot for months so it's no great tactical decision of his to get things on track - he's just now doing what the vast majority on here have been crying out for him to do .

that said however we got here let's enjoy it and hope that this is the beginning of our revival .

Credit to Bruce for getting it right in the end  

onwards and upwards from here !

Edited September 27, 2017 by Eastie

[DaveAV1]

It seems incredible to me that in just 3 games Steve Bruce has managed to erase the history of the 40 odd previous games. People were so keen to wait and see what happens, but as soon as we experience a small winning streak he is smugly hailed as the messiah. This run of form is now considered to be the way it was all planned and it is bound to continue. I'm afraid that just isn't realistic. Obviously we all hope that the run continues and we get promoted, but there is a bloody long way to go.

SB had longer winning streaks last season and we finished 13th. The encouraging thing is that we are actually playing better football and that encourages me, but only to a level of slight optimism, rather than planning a promotion party. I'm not trying to have a dig, anymore than saying I haven't enjoyed the turn round in style and results, but it will probably be May before we will really know which division we will be playing in next season.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Only saw highlights as I'm away in Italy but it looked a very good display - in fairness to Bruce he seems to have turned things around and fair play for now , however let's not forget many of his critics have urged him to play on the front foot for months so it's no great tactical decision of his to get things on track - he's just now doing what the vast majority on here have been crying out for him to do .

that said however we got here let's enjoy it and hope that this is the beginning of our revival .

Credit to Bruce for getting it right in the end  

onwards and upwards from here !

I don't want to reopen a whole debate.....but he now has the players ( in the form they are in)to play on the front foot.

i accept he had been defensive....but also  equally acknowledge 5 new faces coming in this season...He had just got his best player back, discovered a young talent and signed a winger with guile....he has a midfielder showing signs of what we thought we had bought and a goalkeeper that few fancied, now looking sound.

These things take time.....but hey perhaps he did listen to the fans too.

Edited September 27, 2017 by TRO