Steve Bruce

[vreitti]

1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I don't think anyone regards him THAT highly, do they? Most seem to think he is a decent manager, which you also say. That's where I'm at to. Where's the confusion?

Well, of course there's no way of knowing exactly how highly someone rates him, if it doesn't explicitly come across as such. Naturally it's just my own interpretation from what I've read on here, ever since he was appointed, that people really do seem to rate him 'highly'. Perhaps this doesn't apply to you specifically, as you've also been openly critical, at least lately. I suppose my point being that he's rated all too highly IMO, mostly based upon previous achievements, and that some seem to neglect the here and now.

1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I don't really know what kind of manager you're expecting to attract in the Championship. It's a bit of a crap shoot down here, we've tried to negate that by going for tried and tested. I doubt Bruce will last more than 18 months in the PL but for me, as it is for the club it seems, getting back to the PL is by far priority number one. 

Honestly I have no idea, as I've only ever followed the Premier League. I'm actually surprised at the level of play in ELC, as it's quite horrible in comparison. I suppose I just wanted a 'continental type' of manager, one with a clearcut, modern footballing philosophy. I fully understand why we went for Bruce, but I'll never agree that it was the correct decision. In fact it was a terrible decision, seeing as we still had every chance of reaching the playoffs, given the squad we had, even considering all of the imbalance issues, etc. I know others disagree on this part, but it hasn't changed my point of view. Hindsight is a wonderful thing...

1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Wyness said the other day that he envisages us having to build 3 squads. One to get up, one to stabilise in the PL and one to excell. I wouldn't be surprised if that plan requires a new manager each time. Maybe then you'll get the man you think we deserve?

I would. It sounds like poor planning to me, if it actually entails building an entirely new squad every time. FWIW I don't believe all managers need to chop and change as much as Bruce has done. I still firmly believe a lot of decent managers would have been able to build a team with what Bruce inherited. 

Anyways, I do hope we get a new manager in the summer.

Edited March 6, 2017 by vreitti

[terrytini]

I don't think three squads is poor planning - its the opposite surely ?  Its realistic.

There's no way we can buy a Mid Table Premier League Team while down here, and its reassuring that they aren't kidding themselves - or us - as to what will be needed.

[Eastie]

3 minutes ago, terrytini said:

I don't think three squads is poor planning - its the opposite surely ?  Its realistic.

There's no way we can buy a Mid Table Premier League Team while down here, and its reassuring that they aren't kidding themselves - or us - as to what will be needed.

 some things are best left unsaid -  I wonder how many of the current first team would be given the chance in the premiership should we get up next season .

Edited March 6, 2017 by Eastie

[vreitti]

1 minute ago, terrytini said:

I don't think three squads is poor planning - its the opposite surely ?  Its realistic.

There's no way we can buy a Mid Table Premier League Team while down here, and its reassuring that they aren't kidding themselves - or us - as to what will be needed.

Well, perhaps not, but surely a complete overhaul isn't needed every time. That to me suggest very shortsighted planning, realistic or otherwise.

[terrytini]

14 minutes ago, Eastie said:

 some things are best left unsaid -  I wonder how many of the current first team would be given the chance in the premiership should we get up next season .

I'm pretty sure the players who aren't good enough will have a fair idea of their limitations - and those that want to do well will have been heartened and challenged by the idea that the Club plans to add quality surely ?

Anyway, we aren't there yet, or until August 2018 at the soonest !

[vreitti]

51 minutes ago, terrytini said:

There's no way we can buy a Mid Table Premier League Team while down here, and its reassuring that they aren't kidding themselves - or us - as to what will be needed.

I do wonder, are we really that far off a team like WBA for instance? Honestly there's not many of their first eleven players I'd be willing to swap with any of ours. GK is probably the only one, and that's a no-brainer. The big difference is they are settled, united and play as real football team. That should be the aim. There's far too much emphasis nowadays on individual talent and flair, IMHO.

Edited March 6, 2017 by vreitti

[Eastie]

32 minutes ago, terrytini said:

I'm pretty sure the players who aren't good enough will have a fair idea of their limitations - and those that want to do well will have been heartened and challenged by the idea that the Club plans to add quality surely ?

Anyway, we aren't there yet, or until August 2018 at the soonest !

Hold onto your hat you old crow and enjoy the ride

[Eastie]

3 minutes ago, vreitti said:

I do wonder, are we really that far off a team like WBA for instance? Honeslty there's not many of their first eleven players I'd be willing to swap with any of our. GK is probably the only one, and that's a no-brainer. The big difference is they are settled, united and play as real football team. That should be the aim. There's far too much emphasis nowadays on individual talent and flair, IMHO.

There is not a great deal between the top 8 of the championship and the bottom 8 of the premiership .

[vreitti]

1 minute ago, Eastie said:

There is not a great deal between the top 8 of the championship and the bottom 8 of the premiership .

If we can all agree that we have a top 8 championship side, irrespective of our current league position of course, then why would there be a need to build three squads as Wyness seem to suggest?

[Davkaus]

5 minutes ago, vreitti said:

I do wonder, are we really that far off a team like WBA for instance? Honestly there's not many of their first eleven players I'd be willing to swap with any of ours. GK is probably the only one, and that's a no-brainer. The big difference is they are settled, united and play as real football team. That should be the aim. There's far too much emphasis nowadays on individual talent and flair, IMHO.

I agree with the rest of your post, but I think there might be some claret tinted glasses involved here, mate.

I can't imagine that many WBA fans, or any other midtable PL club would want any of our squad starting for them.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

57 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Well, perhaps not, but surely a complete overhaul isn't needed every time. That to me suggest very shortsighted planning, realistic or otherwise.

I'm not sure if the words 'complete overhaul' were used. I think you've extrapolated that from very little. 

This squad might well survive in the PL, I think it's way too light beyond the first 11, but I can say for sure it wouldn't compete for European spots. How many players in this squad could? Well we don't know that yet but I doubt it's more than 2/3. Presumably there will be a transitional period between the two as well. So there's your three teams.

I don't think it's controversial at all really.

Back on topic - you think Steve Bruce is and I quote, "decent". So why do you hope our first decent manager in arguably seven years is fired in the summer?  

Edited March 6, 2017 by dont_do_it_doug.

[vreitti]

10 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I agree with the rest of your post, but I think there might be some claret tinted glasses involved here, mate.

I can't imagine that many WBA fans, or any other midtable PL club would want any of our squad starting for them.

I don't think there is. We were a grand mess alright, but there are other reasons for that, and we have an entirely new squad now.

Name one WBA starting player (besides Foster), you'd swap for our equivalent!?

Edited March 6, 2017 by vreitti

[Eastie]

4 minutes ago, vreitti said:

If we can all agree that we have a top 8 championship side, irrespective of our current league position of course, then why would there be a need to build three squads as Wyness seem to suggest?

Maybe 5 or 6 new signings ?

[dont_do_it_doug.]

16 minutes ago, vreitti said:

I do wonder, are we really that far off a team like WBA for instance? Honestly there's not many of their first eleven players I'd be willing to swap with any of ours. GK is probably the only one, and that's a no-brainer. The big difference is they are settled, united and play as real football team. That should be the aim. There's far too much emphasis nowadays on individual talent and flair, IMHO.

You've not watched West Brom much have you lately? 

I'd take Evans, Foster, Chadli, Livermore, MaCauly, Fletcher, Phillips, Brunt, Morrison and Dawson without even thinking twice about it. They might not all be automatic first choice on any given day, but I suspect the majority would walk in.

Waaaaay OT again though. Apologies! 

[JE-]

Someone mentioned the claret and blue specs and I think they are very right 

 

This current side would get slaughtered in the prem absolutely slaughtered 

Our squad was better last season we actually out played some teams but didn't get the wins.. Leciester for example and wba Watford Crystal Palace Norwich Newcastle 

How did we do against Newcastle and Norwich this season? 

[JE-]

Regarding standard of manager... Would rafa have cocked up January as badly as Bruce? That tells you a lot 

[BOF]

Bruce cocked up January?  Not in my opinion.  I do think he dropped the ball with the goalkeeper situation (pun very much intended), but I think everything else that was achieved, both in terms of what we bought, what we sold, and the amounts we received and paid out, were all better than I thought you could achieve in January.  A window everyone loves to remind us is a very difficult one to do any business in.

[Villa Stu]

4 minutes ago, JE- said:

Regarding standard of manager... Would rafa have cocked up January as badly as Bruce? That tells you a lot 

I think most managers of a team in our position would have looked to strengthen their weakest areas. Bruce admitted after that he had tried to do too much too soon, but I don't think many managers would have done any different if they had the opportunity to buy some of the best players in the league along with a couple of good players from other leagues. Most of the players he got in were players that us fans were hoping the club would sign. I think what he has done in January puts us in a brilliant position for next season now, the players have very little pressure on them so they are able to build an understanding with each other and kick on and challenge next season.

[JE-]

4 minutes ago, BOF said:

Bruce cocked up January?  Not in my opinion.  I do think he dropped the ball with the goalkeeper situation (pun very much intended), but I think everything else that was achieved, both in terms of what we bought, what we sold, and the amounts we received and paid out, were all better than I thought you could achieve in January.  A window everyone loves to remind us is a very difficult one to do any business in.

Sorry let me clarify.. He cocked up the integration of the new signings Andy playing players out of position losing 5 in a row.. He should have gone for all those mistakes 

[BOF]

Just now, JE- said:

Sorry let me clarify.. He cocked up the integration of the new signings Andy playing players out of position losing 5 in a row.. He should have gone for all those mistakes 

I think firing someone in the midst of a rebuild while players are trying to gel would be very counter-productive.  There's no shortcut to integration.  Bringing someone else in would still have required the same amount of time.  I do think the one mistake he made was starting so many debutants against Brentford, but he admitted as much afterwards.  I suppose the temptation of using your brand new shiny midfield after having had none to that point was too tempting for him.  But hopefully we're out the other side now and at least over the worst of it.  Onwards and upwards.