Villa Park redevelopment

[thabucks]

10 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said:

Hopefully. If that's the case,  though, why not give a bit more info last December beyond 'we aren't doing that' and it was 'a bad idea' etc.

Who’s knows for sure but maybe the new boardroom appointments were considered necessary to work on a master plan. I take away from Heck’s interview that he wanted to squeeze current demand and upgrade the whole fan experience first before looking at a large expansion. Also pressures the council to do more than focus groups to renovate the train station(s) … No one is privy to what meetings are being held behind the scenes. I’d rather our owners did their work in the background then announce finalised plans for regeneration  rather than them down the road speaking of spaceship stadiums and pie in the sky plans for a sporting hub, training ground etc which isn’t doable on the space they’ve acquired. 

Edited May 7 by thabucks

[OutByEaster?]

I wouldn't place any faith at all in that article given the bit I read on the Lower Grounds.

 

[Captain_Townsend]

8 hours ago, thabucks said:

Who’s knows for sure but maybe the new boardroom appointments were considered necessary to work on a master plan. I take away from Heck’s interview that he wanted to squeeze current demand and upgrade the whole fan experience first before looking at a large expansion. Also pressures the council to do more than focus groups to renovate the train station(s) … No one is privy to what meetings are being held behind the scenes. I’d rather our owners did their work in the background then announce finalised plans for penetration rather than them down the road speaking of spaceship stadiums and pie in the sky plans for a sporting hub, training ground etc which isn’t doable on the space they’ve acquired. 

Aye, but you see we had a big master plan. Very well publicised. Video render on YouTube and they just said we aren't doing that with nothing else. Hence all the speculation. 

[TRO]

On 29/02/2024 at 21:12, OutByEaster? said:

I think Heck sees Chelsea as a model for us - the idea isn't so much about increasing capacity as increasing yield and I think the club still very definitely believe that there is an opportunity to do that.

That's pounds per person - the amount they can get from each person attending, rather than adding more people who are paying less. Part of that will be converting some of those that currently attend from being regular seats to GA+ and Hospitality seats, part of it will be changing the Hospitality offers to add more 'exclusive' opportunities and higher prices (stuff like a tunnel club and the seats around the dugout) and part of it will no doubt be increasing the prices for matchday fans and season ticket holders.

I think the challenge the club see is how to get us from £2m a game to £4m a game without adding additional seating.

It's certainly a way, but I am not sure its the right way, assuming it could change the profile of the fan base....for the worst.

I am not an expert on this, just posting my pennyworth.

It doesn't seem to my knowledge ,it's a  way the Germans look at it....With Munich, and Dortmund, I am told have cheaper, prices and less expensive Beer, No wonder they have huge crowds and I guess the maths spell huge volumes.

I fear, doing it the way, you suggest, would diminish, not enhance the atmosphere.....it could be in danger of creating a ground full of "Prawn Sandwiches".....people who could take it or leave it.

I guess Chris Heck has forgot more than I know, about Marketing....but Chelsea, is a completely different environment to B6.....He needs to be careful, with his ambitions.

I am getting to an age, where it doesn't really matter, I have had 60 odd years of Supporting Villa, and I will continue, until my health, says no more.....but I have witnessed, many , many years where the club, would have bitten off your arm for a full house....Even the greatest season 1980/81 was c 30-35,000.....very up and down in terms of volume/attendance.

I am now supporting Villa, with a full house, every week.....He wants to be careful not to kill the goose who lays the golden egg.

Folk tell me it takes time to build a squad, and yes I know......and it takes time to increase entrance fees without being avarice....to keep raising prices too quick, could lead to unrest, and an inevitable reversal of feet.

The intrinsic nature of a fan, with a battle hardened loyalty, that is not easily put off, by a run of bad defeats, are not easy to come by...Chris Heck, should be aware of that....some corporate fans are here today and gone tomorrow, its business....but the business, wants the buzz of the lay crowd....kill that, and there is no corporate interest.

He needs to be careful, what he wishes for and his aspirations of us fans with a perceived bottomless pocket.

Edited May 8 by TRO

[TRO]

On 04/05/2024 at 20:21, Villa_Vids said:

It seems like Andy Street has lost - will this affect re-development and witton station?

good question.

[TRO]

On 04/05/2024 at 20:45, Rich192 said:

New mayor is keen to fund it, as per a few months ago. 

but let's hope, it doesn't become a political football game....with a reason for inaction.

Conservative Government, and a Labour council, spell Silo.

Maybe  I am being cynical.

Edited May 7 by TRO

[sidcow]

46 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I wouldn't place any faith at all in that article given the bit I read on the Lower Grounds.

 

Yes I thought that. A wedding venue and bangueting suite is a derelict room? One hell of a lot of poetic licence there. 

Over exaggeration is different to completely making up that the owner stated it's his aim to redevelop the area though. 

[thabucks]

23 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Yes I thought that. A wedding venue and bangueting suite is a derelict room? One hell of a lot of poetic licence there. 

Over exaggeration is different to completely making up that the owner stated it's his aim to redevelop the area though. 

Well it’s was after it flooded technically … 

[thabucks]

1 hour ago, Captain_Townsend said:

Aye, but you see we had a big master plan. Very well publicised. Video render on YouTube and they just said we aren't doing that with nothing else. Hence all the speculation. 

No we had a new stand and a municipal style building. I’m talking regeneration of the whole surrounding area master plan to bring the whole area up and make it a place people want to visit outside of match days. That will take a lot of will, money and no doubt government assistance through the levelling up fund which them down the road have accessed and utd are also looking at exploiting. We need none Villa fans coming to the area and spending money as well as the local community. We need more than just a new stand to achieve this. Aston as a whole is ripe for redevelopment  and if we get onboard and be the driver for this we can ensure it’s in the clubs long term benefit.

Who the hell would wanna stay in a hotel next to the ground currently, but if the immediate vicinity for want of a better word is gentrified then we could look to host more seminars, exhibitions.etc and an onsite hotel becomes feasible over looking Aston Hall grounds and Villa park. 

Edited May 7 by thabucks

[Captain_Townsend]

8 minutes ago, thabucks said:

No we had a new stand and a municipal style building. I’m talking regeneration of the whole surrounding area master plan to bring the whole area up and make it a place people want to visit outside of match days. That will take a lot of will, money and no doubt government assistance through the levelling up fund which them down the road have accessed and utd are also looking at exploiting. We need none Villa fans coming to the area and spending money as well as the local community. We need more than just a new stand to achieve this. Aston as a whole is ripe for this and if we get onboard and be the driver for this we can ensure it’s in the clubs long term benefit. 

All sounds great and I would agree with you 110% on the scale of that. Regarding the plan we had for the new NS and Villa Live etc, I don't see how they are incompatible with what you outline to be honest. The tagine of the video render two years ago even ends 'New era for Aston and Witton' and they always said there were other phases to follow.

Also, I still query a comms strategy of going from a bombshell announcement coming up to Christmas and no follow up over the next 6 months - we were accustomed to being kept in the loop by Purslow. Even a sentence 'The club is still working on plans for redevelopment of Villa Park and will update in May 2024' would have gone a long way.

The lack of said sentence has led to speculation ranging from we are copying Chelsea  with a 40k range stadium but full of premium to we are building a new stadium! 

Edited May 7 by Captain_Townsend

[thabucks]

2 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said:

All sounds great and I would agree with you 110% on the scale of that. Regarding the plan we had for the new NS and Villa Live etc, I don't see how they are incompatible with what you outline to be honest. The tagine of the video render two years ago even ends 'New era for Aston and Witton' and they always said there were other phases to follow.

Also, I still query a comms strategy of going from a bombshell announcement coming up to Christmas and no follow up over the next 6 months - we were accustomed to being kept in the loop by Purslow. Even a sentence 'The club is still working on plans for redevelopment of Villa Park and will update in May 2024' would have gone a long way.

The lack of said sentence has led to speculation ranging from we are copying Chelsea  with a 40k range stadium but full of premium to we are building a new stadium! 

It comes down to personal preference then as I’d rather the club did their talking through actions and not soundbites. We’ve appointed a highly experienced new board whose backgrounds could be read as being something major is being worked on. Heck has come out and said he hasn’t been doing a lot of taking these 9 months as he’s been working a hard on increasing our commercial contracts which have more than doubled across the board.

He’s put pressure on the inept council to do something about the transportation issues and we now have a bus service to central Brum. Who knows what else is to be announced when it’s signed sealed and delivered. They’re not empty words & hollow promises but hard fact actions.

Whats wrong with fans speculating either ? It’s a forum which is a place to muse, share opinion etc. 

Purslow loved the sound of his own voice and face on camera. He did well to a level but now we’re looking at operating against the established big clubs and give me silence yet tangible results than a 6 monthly look at me press release. 

Again I will highlight the comment from Heck it’s currently about all fans and not just one stand. Yes the North stand isn’t fit for purpose and it will be replaced when it’s right for the club.

We’ve got the financial backing and an expert board to really make a difference now. It’s a one shot once in a lifetime opportunity to make Villa park the central part of a broader redevelopment and that takes time to piece together. If the club doesn’t do that then someone else will and then it won’t serve and benefit our long terms interests at all. 
 

if we can purchase the houses surrounding the north stand and behind the Witton -  those areas can be used to house more people & apartments which are fit for the 21st century. We can build bigger housing more fans. By doing so we don’t have to worry as much about right to light and then build a larger north stand and Witton stand better serving us. By being in control of the immediate area surrounding our ground then expansion becomes easier and financially viable. We can host more events with less carnage on locals, we can make more money from people outside of Aston coming to Villa Park - if they have a reason to. 

Edited May 7 by thabucks

[MrBlack]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

but let's hope, it doesn't become a political football game....with a reason for inaction.

Conservative Government, and a Labour council, spell Silo.

Maybe  I am being cynical.

Probably for the time being that may be the case, but conservatives won't be in power much longer so if Labour get in after then he's the right colour to get the support when it will be time to start doing something.

Not like any major progress was made under Street, although we've no idea how much was impacted by the club changing their minds on the wider stadium redevelop. 

I'll be surprised if nothing happens given the latest news coming out of the Edens camp and the appointments made to the board. 

[Captain_Townsend]

17 minutes ago, thabucks said:

It comes down to personal preference then as I’d rather the club did they’re talking through actions not soundbites. We’ve appointed a highly experienced new board whose backgrounds could be read as being something major is being worked on. Heck has come out and said he hasn’t been doing a lot of taking these 9 months as he’s been working a hard on increasing our commercial contracts which have more than doubled across the board.

He’s put pressure on the inept council to do something about the transportation issues and we now have a bus service to central Brum. Who knows what else is to be announced when it’s signed sealed and delivered. They’re not empty words & hollow promises but hard fact actions.

Whats wrong with fans speculating either ? It’s a forum which is a place to muse, share opinion etc. 

Purslow loved the sound of his own voice and face on camera. He did well to a level but now we’re looking at operating against the established big clubs and give me silence yet tangible results than a 6 monthly look at me press release. 

Again I will highlight the comment from Heck it’s currently about all fans and not just one stand. Yes the North stand isn’t fit for purpose and it will be replaced when it’s right for the club.

We’ve got the financial backing and an expert board to really make a difference now. It’s a one shot once in a lifetime opportunity to make Villa park the central part of a broader redevelopment and that takes time to piece together. If the club doesn’t do that then someone else will and then it won’t serve and benefit our long terms interests at all. 
 

if we can purchase the houses surrounding the north stand and behind the Witton -  those areas can be used to house more people & apartments which are fit for the 21st century. We can build bigger housing more fans. By doing so we don’t have to worry as much about right to light and then build a larger north stand and Witton stand better serving us. By being in control of the immediate area surrounding our ground then expansion becomes easier and financially viable. We can host more events with less carnage on locals, we can make more money from people outside of Aston coming to Villa Park - if they have a reason to. 

We both want what is best.

It's just I have seen two previous plans for a new NS stalled over the past 25 years and nothing ended up being done. I would rather we just pushed ahead rather than delay - even if it is to plan something bigger. Events deqr boy, events. I can easily see a scenario where something  unforseen goes wrong in the next 3 or 4 years (remember the impact of Lerner's Divorce!) And we end up looking at the 1977 North stand and thinking "blimey,  how many lives does that thing have".

On Purslow, he definitely left things in better shape than he found them and those now occupying senior roles inherited something of a different plane to the mess he walked into in 2018.

Edited May 7 by Captain_Townsend

[wishywashy]

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I wouldn't place any faith at all in that article given the bit I read on the Lower Grounds.

 

It's an odd one. Seems that the author's spoken to Wes directly, probably as best a source as you could get, yet there are some details that are definitely a bit dubious: particularly the Lower Grounds bit which doesn't really add up.

Edited May 7 by wishywashy

[allani]

17 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

Probably for the time being that may be the case, but conservatives won't be in power much longer so if Labour get in after then he's the right colour to get the support when it will be time to start doing something.

Not like any major progress was made under Street, although we've no idea how much was impacted by the club changing their minds on the wider stadium redevelop. 

I'll be surprised if nothing happens given the latest news coming out of the Edens camp and the appointments made to the board. 

Also assuming that Labour do win the GE then I am sure that the government would be keen to support the Labour mayor of Birmingham in order to ensure that at the next mayoral election the gap over the Conservatives is much bigger.  Governments always look to spend more money into potential "swing" areas.  It would also paint a good story that they can take to other cities / areas and point to how they've made big improvements that they can replicate elsewhere.

[thabucks]

29 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said:

We both want what is best.

It's just I have seen two previous plans for a new NS stalled over the past 25 years and nothing ended up being done. I would rather we just pushed ahead rather than delay - even if it is to plan something bigger. Events deqr boy, events. I can easily see a scenario where something  unforseen goes wrong in the next 3 or 4 years (remember the impact of Lerner's Divorce!) And we end up looking at the 1977 North stand and thinking "blimey,  how many lives does that thing have".

On Purslow, he definitely left things in better shape than he found them and those now occupying senior roles inherited something of a different plane to the mess he walked into in 2018.

Again as I said comes down to personal preference but we’re all the same as in we want what’s best for the club. Just I’m happy with non sound bites and can see actions happening for the long benefit of us fans.
 

I also didn’t say Purslow wasn’t good for us but he did love the sound of his own voice and face on camera - fact  and in NSWE eyes reached his ceiling and served his purpose so was politely moved on. 

Edited May 7 by thabucks

[MrBlack]

35 minutes ago, allani said:

Also assuming that Labour do win the GE then I am sure that the government would be keen to support the Labour mayor of Birmingham in order to ensure that at the next mayoral election the gap over the Conservatives is much bigger.  Governments always look to spend more money into potential "swing" areas.  It would also paint a good story that they can take to other cities / areas and point to how they've made big improvements that they can replicate elsewhere.

As long as its good for Villa, I'm happy. I've given up expecting any Government to help me personally.

You're right though,  it should be a good window for them to really make a good example.

Given Heck's latest interview, it sounds like the club are waiting until the surrounding area amd infrastructure better supports an expansion, so the quicker we see some action from Wes and the council/mayor on that front the better.

Edited May 7 by MrBlack

[OutByEaster?]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

It doesn't seem to my knowledge ,it's a  way the Germans look at it....With Munich, and Dortmund, I am told have cheaper, prices and less expensive Beer, No wonder they have huge crowds and I guess the maths spell huge volumes.

I fear, doing it the way, you suggest, would diminish, not enhance the atmosphere.....it could be in danger of creating a ground full of "Prawn Sandwiches".....people who could take it or leave it.

I guess Chris Heck has forgot more than I know, about Marketing....but Chelsea, is a completely different environment to B6.....He needs to be careful, with his ambitions.

The German leagues make less money than us. Enhancing the atmosphere is not a Premier league essential - this league is a corporate structure that tries to make money - anything else is immaterial - that's the choice that was made in 1992.

[The Fun Factory]

Re housing development. I hope they have done their research, B6 has to be in the lowest 20 percentile of property prices. Unless they want to do social housing but I can't see hard nosed businessman bothering with that. On the flip side, an increase of population within the area would help to justify any works on Aston or Witton station, as the business case for either at the moment just for matchday is flimsy at best.

It just seems yet another change in direction, I am not sure what they really want to do with Villa Park. In terms of prep work they spent about 18 months working up a masterplan for a new north stand, at the time Villa Live, and a new walkway to the academy by Witton station, and possible next steps of further expansion. You would have thought they would have gone through all of this when they did that. The north stand is not  large enough nor fit for purpose and is not generating enough matchday revenue for every game played now. And yet we keep waiting.

Edited May 8 by The Fun Factory

[sidcow]

4 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Re housing development. I hope they have done their research, B6 has to be in the lowest 20 percentile of property prices. Unless they want to do social housing but I can't see hard nosed businessman bothering with that. On the flip side, an increase of population within the area would help to justify any works on Aston or Witton station, as the business case for either at the moment just for matchday is flimsy at best.

It just seems yet another change in direction, I am not sure what they really want to do with Villa Park. 

This is literally the next station along the line at perry Barr

 

Edited May 8 by sidcow