bickster Posted December 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, hippo said: JC - Wouldn't win a vote of no confidence - no tories or DUP would support it Its a side show, it means nothing 1 minute ago, hippo said: The Hard Brexit people can't oust TM as leader of the Tory party - they can't get the 48 signatures to force a contest I suspect you may be proved wrong on that in the very near future 2 minutes ago, hippo said: 4.A second referendum gambles with the the prospect of a 2nd leave vote - and a subsequent ultra right wing government Where is the Ultra Right wing Government coming from? You just said they can't get 48 signatures together, you really can't have it both ways. Ideally, the Tory Party will split irrevocably. I'm not entirely sure why a second referendum is a gamble. A second leave vote and we leave, we're leaving anyway without it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, bickster said: I've been thinking about this quite a bit, I think Iain Drunken-Shit came out with it at the weekend. It's utter freakin nonsense, this riven with rage, rioting on the streets bollocks. These people that will be riven with rage fall into two categories and the larger of the two won't be around much longer, the other group is the disenfranchised youth who are far far far more likely to be riotous under a No Deal exit because they'll suffer even more. Aside from those two groups, there'll be the empowered Tommy Robinson type neanderthals, who again will be just as likely if not more so to cause racially aggravating violence after we leave than they currently do. Talk about Project Fear. We have to deal with the neanderthals either way and they'll be worse if we leave As for constantly on the brink of a new Brexit process, again this is utter nonsense, the referendum happened imo at peak Brexit in the UK it couldn't have been timed better for the leavers, it's already on a demographic slide. The country will absolutely not want to go through this process again in the near future and the longer that goes on, the numbers will continue to stack up on the side of remain. Really not sure - UKIP and Leave piggy backed on immigration - really not sure that sentiment has gone away - the opinion polls suffer from shy racist factors - Leave on an anti immigration ticket could easily win again. I heard someone at the weekend say "is Corbyn the one who let all the blacks in?" - thats what you're up against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, bickster said: Its a side show, it means nothing I suspect you may be proved wrong on that in the very near future Where is the Ultra Right wing Government coming from? You just said they can't get 48 signatures together, you really can't have it both ways. Ideally, the Tory Party will split irrevocably. I'm not entirely sure why a second referendum is a gamble. A second leave vote and we leave, we're leaving anyway without it Because the right would have got there way over Brexit ......highly likley the next leader would be towards the right of the party - and would pitch to a right wing public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, hippo said: UKIP Who? They are an irrelevance. They managed to muster 3,000 people from all over the country this weekend, there's more people in the Holte End on a match day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, hippo said: Because the right would have got there way over Brexit ......highly likley the next leader would be towards the right of the party - and would pitch to a right wing public. Much more likely that there'll be two parties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 On the potential for a second referendum, I've had a mini tour around Nottingham / Retford / Sheffield today. I've been offered, totally unsolicited, some pretty strong views on what's happened today and the prospect of not leaving or a soft leaving. Everyone I have met today that's expressed an opinion, and that's a good handful, have been 100% leave and angry it's still being debated. Apparently, this has all been planned and plotted by the French since the start? Fair to say I've been well out of my little bubble today. Totally unrelated (not), I've also had grief for my accent and been called taff by someone I met for the first time. It was pefectly understandable, the guy was clearly just a prick. Apparently, it's 'ridiculous' that I've got work in Nottingham. Just bloody glad now that I hadn't blacked up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 4 hours ago, a m ole said: As opposed to No Deal or May’s Way? He's giving a view from Europe about how we are perceived, not commenting on what is best for the UK. Also see earlier Norway clip about not wanting us in their arrangement because we'll mess it up for them like we have for ourselves. We seem to be viewed as both destructive, and stupid. A bit like how we see Trump. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Everyone I have met today that's expressed an opinion, and that's a good handful, have been 100% leave and angry it's still being debated And they are right to be impatient. Personally, I can't wait to take delivery of my unicorn. I've built a stall, and arranged bedding and everything, and I want it NOW! Don't stand in my way. The people have spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 8 hours ago, bickster said: Much more likely that there'll be two parties I don't think anybody knows how this will pan out. A breakaway split from the Tories is amongst the more unlikely outcomes IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 9 hours ago, bickster said: Its a side show, it means nothing 9 hours ago, bickster said: I suspect you may be proved wrong on that in the very near future Where is the Ultra Right wing Government coming from? You just said they can't get 48 signatures together, you really can't have it both ways. Ideally, the Tory Party will split irrevocably. I'm not entirely sure why a second referendum is a gamble. A second leave vote and we leave, we're leaving anyway without it The Hard Brexit people can't oust TM as leader of the Tory party - they can't get the 48 signatures to force a contest I suspect you may be proved wrong on that in the very near future - Well if you believe what you read they got an extra signature yesterday - putting them on 26 - still 22 short. I think that is a way off yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2018 59 minutes ago, hippo said: The Hard Brexit people can't oust TM as leader of the Tory party - they can't get the 48 signatures to force a contest I suspect you may be proved wrong on that in the very near future - Well if you believe what you read they got an extra signature yesterday - putting them on 26 - still 22 short. I think that is a way off yet. So how do you get from that to a hard right-wing party in charge of the country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, bickster said: So how do you get from that to a hard right-wing party in charge of the country Because once Brexit is done ...it wont be an issue in terms of votes. They Dump May as ' yesterdays politics' - and appoint a right wing leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted December 11, 2018 Author Moderator Popular Post Share Posted December 11, 2018 6 hours ago, peterms said: Personally, I can't wait to take delivery of my unicorn. I've built a stall, and arranged bedding and everything It's not a stall you need for your Unicorn - it's a strong stable, surely? 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 No room whatsoever to renegotiate Hard Brexit it is then , except parliament won't pass that , so that leaves us with No Brexit , which of course parliament might not be able to pass either time to sharpen my pitchfork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Hard Brexit it is then On the terms that were being discussed back in 2016 May's arranged deal constitutes a hard Brexit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: No room whatsoever to renegotiate Hard Brexit it is then , except parliament won't pass that , so that leaves us with No Brexit , which of course parliament might not be able to pass either time to sharpen my pitchfork Haven't you heard. This is the best deal available therefore it doesn't need to be negotiated as it's impossible to get better than 'best', surely? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 No Deal would be an absolute disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 hour ago, hippo said: Because once Brexit is done ...it wont be an issue in terms of votes. They Dump May as ' yesterdays politics' - and appoint a right wing leader. Yes, let's appoint a leader we don't agree with just for the sake of it. The vast majority of MPs are not Hard Right. It is them that get the say until the final two If the wider Party elect a hard right leader then that is the point where the Tory Party splits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 14 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: No Deal would be an absolute disaster. I wonder if it would be a bigger disaster than this deal , which is probably the important question I think the EU (and various other people ) are hoping we can be "cornered " into withdrawing article 50 ... No Deal might be the outcome of this play ... lot will now depend on who replaces May in the coming days ... a Tory Remainer or a Tory Brexiter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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