Awol Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 2 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said: Andrea Leadsom comes across as rather nice. Definitely my choice if I had one, which I don't. She's sharp as a razor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 30, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Xann said: Full interview is here. It's interesting - BBC I am amazed that Johnson is not getting crucified by the press. He's sold the country down the swannie because he lit a fire he thought would glow enough to oust Cameron but not actually ignite. Now he realizes his lies have actually been bought by the nation which he never expected he has run for the hills leaving someone else to sort out the sorry mess he has left behind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, sidcow said: I am amazed that Johnson is not getting crucified by the press. He's sold the country down the swannie because he lit a fire he thought would glow enough to oust Cameron but not actually ignite. Now he realizes his lies have actually been bought by the nation which he never expected he has run for the hills leaving someone else to sort out the sorry mess he has left behind. I think it is more that he has been out manoeuvred. May and Gove have carved up his potential votes behind his back and he's left with no support left in a leadership challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 30, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2016 28 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I think it is more that he has been out manoeuvred. May and Gove have carved up his potential votes behind his back and he's left with no support left in a leadership challenge. I disagree entirely. Just look at the press coverage of him when he won. He was stunned, shocked bewildered that his plan had backfired and he had shafted the nation with his clever meddling to try and oust Cameron. He knows the next PM will be the one who destroys the nation with the exit and he didn't want to be that man so has slunk out. He was the massive favorite and could have crushed Gove, I mean the horrible hypocrisy of Gove is shocking, it wouldn't take a political genius to ridulicule him. I do however wonder if this is all one huge show with a number of people falling on their swords for the good of the nation. I don't believe for one micro second that euro corridors are not abuzz with potential deal discussions. May is a credible person to turn to the nation in a few months and say I am sorry but we need a new referendum because we now know that this is the real situation no maybe x may happen or possibly y may happen. This is how immigration will have to look like and this is the tarrif deal we will have to have, do you still want to do this? It was only Cameron who said it would be a single referendum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 30, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2016 2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Boris gets scapegoated, we get a new leader, an election with a promise of remain if we vote for him and if he wins they get to say "Voice of the people have spoken" etc and pretend they didn't start all this in the first place. Whatever Boris is, and he is many things, he is NO scapegoat he has not built his own bed he has stolen it and now needs to cower in it the slime ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 30, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2016 21 minutes ago, sidcow said: Whatever Boris is, and he is many things, he is NO scapegoat he has not built his own bed he has stolen it and now needs to cower in it the slime ball. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it, just that he's an easy out for an awful lot of others that deserve to be in that bed with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 26 minutes ago, sidcow said: May is a credible person to turn to the nation in a few months and say I am sorry but we need a new referendum because we now know that this is the real situation no maybe x may happen or possibly y may happen. This is how immigration will have to look like and this is the tarrif deal we will have to have, do you still want to do this? It was only Cameron who said it would be a single referendum Perhaps the UK should have continuous referendums until one side is backed unanimously. This appears to be as little as 62% in some circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 30, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2016 21 minutes ago, brommy said: Perhaps the UK should have continuous referendums until one side is backed unanimously. This appears to be as little as 62% in some circles. Not continuous. Just we had this one on opinion and theory. Now here is one one hard absolute facts. Not a lot to ask is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 34 minutes ago, sidcow said: I disagree entirely. Just look at the press coverage of him when he won. He was stunned, shocked bewildered that his plan had backfired and he had shafted the nation with his clever meddling to try and oust Cameron. I don't see how Johnson could have hoped to damage Cameron and obtain a Remain vote. Wouldn't anything other than a Leave result (or possibly a 51% Remain vote that was seen a too slender) have strengthened Cameron's position and pushed Johnson out in to the cold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 1 minute ago, sidcow said: Not continuous. Just we had this one on opinion and theory. Now here is one one hard absolute facts. Not a lot to ask is it? When will we know when all the 'facts' have been established and whose version of the facts do we trust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 17 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it, just that he's an easy out for an awful lot of others that deserve to be in that bed with him. Nobody deserves to be in bed with Boris, that's too cruel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 30, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2016 17 minutes ago, brommy said: I don't see how Johnson could have hoped to damage Cameron and obtain a Remain vote. Wouldn't anything other than a Leave result (or possibly a 51% Remain vote that was seen a too slender) have strengthened Cameron's position and pushed Johnson out in to the cold? His hope was to have a close enough vote to show Cameron he was out of touch but show he was broadly in touch with the common folk. Just enough to distabilise Cameron but not enough to actually sway the nation. In that regard he was just as out of touch with reality as Cameron who never should have and most definitely wouldn't have allowed the referendum if he thought he would have lost. I am still flabbergasted no one gets this. Politicians are so far removed from the population that absolutely none of them really believed Britain would vote leave, not our lot and not the EU lot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 30, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2016 22 minutes ago, brommy said: When will we know when all the 'facts' have been established and whose version of the facts do we trust? When we have ACTUALLY negotiated what we can and cannot have. The out vote was basically won on we can trade with Europe and stop immigration. That IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 18 minutes ago, sidcow said: Not continuous. Just we had this one on opinion and theory. Now here is one one hard absolute facts. Not a lot to ask is it? And what happens if remain win this time , best out of 3 ? its over let it go there isn't going to be a second referendum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, sidcow said: His hope was to have a close enough vote to show Cameron he was out of touch but show he was broadly in touch with the common folk. Just enough to distabilise Cameron but not enough to actually sway the nation. In that regard he was just as out of touch with reality as Cameron who never should have and most definitely wouldn't have allowed the referendum if he thought he would have lost. I am still flabbergasted no one gets this. Politicians are so far removed from the population that absolutely none of them really believed Britain would vote leave, not our lot and not the EU lot. I don't believe any politician, let alone Johnson, would or could plan such a narrow window of defeat amongst such a massive electorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 5 minutes ago, sidcow said: When we have ACTUALLY negotiated what we can and cannot have. The out vote was basically won on we can trade with Europe and stop immigration. That IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Is that you Angela ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, sidcow said: When we have ACTUALLY negotiated what we can and cannot have. The out vote was basically won on we can trade with Europe and stop immigration. That IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Without shouting, aren't there already numerous countries without uncontrolled immigration that trade with the EU? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 30, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2016 16 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: And what happens if remain win this time , best out of 3 ? its over let it go there isn't going to be a second referendum If it's best of 3 I will happily take that. One won by out one the basis of opinion of what we MAY get. One won by in on what we WILL get. What will the third fourth or tenth change? I am flabbergasted that people are STILL suckered by the utopia on no basis which was sold to us even after Boris has run away and the shadow cabinet who know what the future holds have abandoned their leader for failing to avert the apocalypse of the nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 30, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2016 19 minutes ago, brommy said: Without shouting, aren't there already numerous countries without uncontrolled immigration that trade with the EU? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 30, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2016 15 minutes ago, sidcow said: No Not without massively uncompetitive terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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