VillaChris Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 You gotta feel for Messi. Both times should have won the final. This game especially, he put it on a plate in the last minute. Yep you're only as good as the players you have around you. Neymar and Suarez dont miss those type of chances. Aguero, Di Maria, Higuain, Tevez, Lavezzi is one of the best attacking combinations in world football, it's miles better than what Brazil, England, Italy even Spain I'd argue can pick from. Argentina always look unbalaced to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Sanchez no tats either makes him even more likeable! Just waiting for Mantis to pop up with Alexis should move to a better team 'cos their fans never sing at cup finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 You gotta feel for Messi. Both times should have won the final. This game especially, he put it on a plate in the last minute. Yep you're only as good as the players you have around you. Neymar and Suarez dont miss those type of chances. Aguero, Di Maria, Higuain, Tevez, Lavezzi is one of the best attacking combinations in world football, it's miles better than what Brazil, England, Italy even Spain I'd argue can pick from. Argentina always look unbalaced to me. I think that's why it's a bit harsh to write off the likes of Luis Enrique, easy job cos look who he gets to pick, you've got to get them to click, for years now the argies can't do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 its the personnel though for me they have a decent goalkeeper, solid defence top class defensive midfielder and awesome front line no Veron or Redondo to connect them together and thats what they are missing, relying on a bit of individual magic every game is not goign pay off every game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 They go from one extreme to the other....under Maradona it was all out attack and ridiculous formations now it's very conservative. The best chance of winning something was between 02-07.... As much as I love him Biesla completely messed up world cup 2002 by wierdly putting a way past it Batistuta ahead of Crespo who'd been in excellent form. Argies back then had Samuel and Ayala at the back so strong defence. Another problem was that was the season Veron moved to Man. United and he lost some of his spark. Copa America 2004 Brazil completely mugged them. World cup 2006- blew it when they should've beaten Germany in the quarters with Peckeman famously leaving Messi as unused sub. Riquelme was one of the best players in the world at that point and you also had Tevez and Mascherano in their early 20s back then so exciting team. Remember that goal Cambiasso scored against Serbia? Copa America 2007- Messi, Tevez, Mascherano, Riquelme, Ayala and Crespo were old but still around then. Brazil beat them 3-0 in final with facking Vagner Love and Baptista upfront. Despite the history I'm a massive fan of Argentine football and the players they produce so I hate the football they play now just like Brazil do. Going to be really interesting the world cup qualifiers when they start in October... To me Chile are the all round best team in South America which the Copa win has confirmed and which could kick them onto the next level as they'll still have a good team for the 2018 world cup. Colombia will be fine aswell with all their strikers. So Brazil and Argies in a mix with Uruguay (think they'll struggle without Suarez for first few games), Ecuador, Venezuela and possibly Peru for remaining top spots and play off. Think Paraguay and Bolivia are the only two who have no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Black mark for me....how could I forget Javier Zanetti in that period. One of the all time greats in his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 another problem for Argentina like Brazil is their players are going EUrope too soon and not been allowed develop at home as for World Cup qualifying it will be brilliant to watch as I think a surprise wont make it and I think that be Uruguay as they are an aging team and without Suarez. Bolivia going to try play a Bielsa style game so be interesting to watch as think a lot of the South American nations will soon go for that style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Well they're not exactly failures. World cup finalists and copa america finalists and they didn't loose the game last night and Chile were at home. Maybe we expect too much of Messi, he's heavily marked, . Maradonna had one great world cup but the other world cups he failed in. No way Chile would allow him to run through their defence like England did for the second goal and the first one he cheated. Pele prob goes down as the greatest player ever if world cups are the yardstick. He's most certainly ahead of the other Ronaldo as the best Brazil player of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Maradona carried a horrible negative Argentina to World Cup final in 1990, as for not allowing him to run through the Chile defence he put up with tackles 100 times worse than what Chile did to Messi last night in todays game Gentile would never have got past 5 minutes Edited July 5, 2015 by Zatman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Yes very true, Maradonna was a great player. Probably stronger than Messi and a better international record. Its always been between Pele and Maradonna for the best player for me but Messi is the best footballer i have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Maradona > Messi, all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Chile, with an Argentine manager, defeat Argentina. Give the trophy to Argentina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 You gotta feel for Messi. Both times should have won the final. This game especially, he put it on a plate in the last minute. Yep you're only as good as the players you have around you. Neymar and Suarez dont miss those type of chances. Aguero, Di Maria, Higuain, Tevez, Lavezzi is one of the best attacking combinations in world football, it's miles better than what Brazil, England, Italy even Spain I'd argue can pick from. Argentina always look unbalaced to me. I think that's why it's a bit harsh to write off the likes of Luis Enrique, easy job cos look who he gets to pick, you've got to get them to click, for years now the argies can't do it Even though with all that talent they should be doing better they did still get to 2 finals in the last 2 years and should really have won them both. Messi clearly wasn't himself at the last World Cup. Would have love to have seen him firing like he did this season. They would have won it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Is it a case for making the argument now that for all the great player relevant for international teams, the nations themselves are more closely matched than ever. Look at the last world cup and the knockouts, there was an old guard feel with Holland, Brazil, Germany and Argentina as the last 4 but none of them were imperious getting there. Argentina were 30 seconds from a penalty shoot out with the Swiss, Brazil had penalties with Chile, Holland were about 2 minutes from losing to Mexico and couldn't beat Costa Rica over 120 minutes and Germany struggled a lot against Algeria. They won through because they had the big game players to make the difference at key moments or indeed take better penalties but given the talent still produced there doesn't seem to be a major gulf between the heavyweights and the others anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 another problem for Argentina like Brazil is their players are going EUrope too soon and not been allowed develop at home as for World Cup qualifying it will be brilliant to watch as I think a surprise wont make it and I think that be Uruguay as they are an aging team and without Suarez. Bolivia going to try play a Bielsa style game so be interesting to watch as think a lot of the South American nations will soon go for that style Most of Argentina players still end up in Italy or Spain so play in high quality standard leagues. Problem with Brazil is so many of their players are going to play in the Ukrainian league which is obviously nowhere near that standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Maradona > Messi, all day Seriously baffled how people can call messi the best ever, they must of only seen messi play scoring fun against shite teams in spain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Maradona > Messi, all day Seriously baffled how people can call messi the best ever, they must of only seen messi play scoring fun against shite teams in spain 77 goals in 99 Champions League games suggest he can score prolifically against decent teams too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Well they're not exactly failures. World cup finalists and copa america finalists and they didn't loose the game last night and Chile were at home. Maybe we expect too much of Messi, he's heavily marked, . Maradonna had one great world cup but the other world cups he failed in. No way Chile would allow him to run through their defence like England did for the second goal and the first one he cheated. Pele prob goes down as the greatest player ever if world cups are the yardstick. He's most certainly ahead of the other Ronaldo as the best Brazil player of all time. Argentina haven't won a single title at senior level since 1993 (I don't count the Olympics). That is a serious drought for them with all the opportunities they continue to blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Maradona > Messi, all daySeriously baffled how people can call messi the best ever, they must of only seen messi play scoring fun against shite teams in spain 77 goals in 99 Champions League games suggest he can score prolifically against decent teams too. He doesnt turn up for argentina though, a truely great player plays well for both club and country and if he is that great he would surely perform alot better in world cups and copa americas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Its a bit harsh to say he doesn't turn up for Argentina. He isn't as good for them as Barcelona but for Barcelona he is unbelievably good. Argentina have no divine right to win world cups. They aren't the biggest nation in South America and the likes of Germany, Italy and Spain have been incredibly strong in the last 20 years or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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