Xann Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 Some Labour MPs didn't have the bottle to fight against the media for a man that threatened their share portfolios. If he'd got in? They would have had to reassses their positions. I think some here are trying to justify a voting pattern that let the Tories in. Nice job if you've sold it to yourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 It hurt me voting labour but I still had to do it. Pointless in the end, but regardless of my dislike of Corbyn and Momentum I had to do it. We ended up with a relative of Rees-Mogg and she is trying her level best to be voted out at the next GE. Absolute shower of shit and so quick to show this too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 At the end of the day whoever did wrong, along the lines of sabotage, racism or sexism, they have to be kicked out. It's just not acceptable if you are one of these people to claim you were misrepresented and to suggest we should all just move on. Kick them out and then move on - otherwise this smoulders for much longer and it won't help Labour win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 3 hours ago, darrenm said: She goes around calling people antisemitic simply because they're left wing. She called Noam Chomsky an antisemite. She's close with David Collier, a really nasty guy behind the frequently suspended Gnasherjew account, she dogpiles people a lot. Along with Tracy Ann Oberman she doxxed a left wing account and tried to get them sacked. And perhaps the most egregious, bullied a 16 year old girl with mental health problems online. It's her right to act as she does and it's my right to think she's a thoroughly unpleasant person. I remember being shocked by this at the time. As I understand it, Riley has Jewish heritage but was not raised within Judaism - fair enough then for her to take an interest in antisemitism and speak out where she sees it. But for her to then accuse a Jewish intellectual with actual lived experience of antisemitism (not to mention time spent living on a Kibbutz) of being a 'spreader of antisemitism' struck me as being particularly nasty and distasteful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Seat68 said: It hurt me voting labour but I still had to do it. Pointless in the end, but regardless of my dislike of Corbyn and Momentum I had to do it. We ended up with a relative of Rees-Mogg and she is trying her level best to be voted out at the next GE. Absolute shower of shit and so quick to show this too. Exactly. Amongst the angriest people are the ones that that changed their preferred vote to stop the Tory filth. The dipshits plopped into the traps laid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, Xann said: Exactly. Amongst the angriest people are the ones that that changed their preferred vote to stop the Tory filth. The dipshits plopped into the traps laid. Well perversely, that’s me in that bracket. Having said I wouldn’t vote Labour it then looked possible that they could win here and get rid of the awful Alun Cairns. Unfortunately, my switch to labour didn’t offset what happened. Plaid and LibDems declined to put up a candidate in the hope of bolstering the Labour vote. But the Green Party did put up a candidate as did a right wing Welsh Nationalist party, and between them they mopped up pretty much all the votes that were, in theory, supposed to be tactically switched to Labour as the ‘anyone but Cairns’ vote. Shambles. I’ll not dabble in tactical voting again. Until the next time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Well perversely, that’s me in that bracket. I should have put "other dipshits". The Liberals pulled another Tory enabling blinder. Edited August 7, 2020 by Xann 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Well, she is more politically important than *just* being a TV host, obviously. Nobody thinks Alexander Armstrong is 'politically important' because he doesn't talk about politics on social media all the time or sue political activists for libel. I'm guessing that if political activists started (allegedly) libelling him then he might. Edited August 7, 2020 by ml1dch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, ml1dch said: I'm guessing that if political activists starting (allegedly) libelling him then he might. In the case I'm thinking of, she dropped the case and ended up contributing to the defendant's legal costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Xann said: Exactly. Amongst the angriest people are the ones that that changed their preferred vote to stop the Tory filth. I didn't vote at all. If I had, it wouldn't have been for Labour. No chance with Corbyn as leader. I was just dejected and at times angry throughout his time as leader, because he was so palpably unfit to be leader and (IMO) never ever was going to get elected to be PM. Which meant the Tories would stay in power because of Corbyn and the people keeping him in place. If by some miracle I'd voted for Labour despite my views on Corbyn, the Tories would have lost this seat and Labour would have wo....actually no scrub that sorry, - I messed up the sums. The tories majority here would have been cut to a narrow 16,610 over second place Labour. Labour was effed, and the system is effed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 Plop into the traps they fell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2020 50 minutes ago, Xann said: The Liberals pulled another Tory enabling blinder. More than aided and abetted by selfish Labour's idiocy. The (leftish) opposition parties, apart from Labour who wouldn't co-operate, came up with pacts and deals to "we'll stand down here, you stand down there". Labour refused to take part in the anti-tory plan. Labour doesn't play with the others to beat the tories. it's more important to behold their virtue, than beat the tories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, blandy said: More than aided and abetted by selfish Labour's idiocy. The (leftish) opposition parties, apart from Labour who wouldn't co-operate, came up with pacts and deals to "we'll stand down here, you stand down there". Labour refused to take part in the anti-tory plan. Labour doesn't play with the others to beat the tories. it's more important to behold their virtue, than beat the tories. 'Not standing down candidates' is not virtue-signalling, it is competing across the country. Labour wanted a Labour government, not an unstable patchwork of parties that would have collapsed in no time. People are also in different parties because they believe in different things. 'Anti-Conservatives' is not a party, nor is it a coherent philosophy that would be sustainable beyond an election. Edited for being overly confrontational, sorry. Edited August 7, 2020 by HanoiVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said: Not standing down candidates' is not virtue-signalling, it is competing across the country. How did that go - the "competing" thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2020 Actually, talking of standing down candidates - it shouldn't be forgotten how much it helped the tories that the UKIPs didn't stand. That did help the baby eaters significantly. It worked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, blandy said: How did that go - the "competing" thing? Badly. But you are not going to find a Labour leader from any part of the party - neither left of Corbyn nor right of Blair nor any point in between - who is going to indulge the idea of Labour not being a national political party any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2020 Just now, HanoiVillan said: Badly. But you are not going to find a Labour leader from any part of the party - neither left of Corbyn nor right of Blair nor any point in between - who is going to indulge the idea of Labour not being a national political party any more. Who knows, you're perhaps right, HV. My perception is that they'd have ended up with more seats if they had. Next time, they'd be wise to contemplate doing it. it would be beneficial for the Country IMO if we had a parliament that more reflected the way people vote. Was it something like 40,000 national votes got a Tory elected, and out to vast multiples of that for several other parties? The system's broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, blandy said: Who knows, you're perhaps right, HV. My perception is that they'd have ended up with more seats if they had. Next time, they'd be wise to contemplate doing it. it would be beneficial for the Country IMO if we had a parliament that more reflected the way people vote. Was it something like 40,000 national votes got a Tory elected, and out to vast multiples of that for several other parties? The system's broken. I think there are two things being conflated here, which are not the same, and one of which is plausible and arguably a good idea, and one of which is implausible and not a good idea. The former is a system of proportional representation, which would better match the distribution of MP's to the distribution of votes. Should Labour ever take office again, and without the benefit of about four-score guaranteed seats in Scotland and Wales, they might be well advised to pursue a PR system, especially something like AV top-up which maintains the constituency link. The latter is the question of parties standing down for particular seats. I am not in favour of this anywhere, and not for parties competing for Labour either. It's hard enough for socialists and social democrats to cooperate within the Labour party, without adding liberals and soft nationalists in different parties as well. This kind of arrangement would be unjust (deciding who could compete where would be based on a moment in time, so if Labour are 2nd in my seat today I would lose any opportunity to vote for anyone other than Labour, and ditto for other parties), impossible to coordinate (see above), open to bad-faith betrayals, and would be easily portrayed as a corrupt stitch-up by the Conservatives. And as I say, it just isn't going to happen anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2020 2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: I think there are two things being conflated here, which are not the same, and one of which is plausible and arguably a good idea, and one of which is implausible and not a good idea. There's a bit of a catch 22 in there, IMO. You seem to agree PR is plausible and perhaps a good idea. And you think Labour might be well advised to pursue a PR system if they ever get in again. They've been out of power for 10 years already, now. Scotland is lost to them. They're what needing to overturn what? a 160+ seat advantage to the tories, basically in England and Wales. That kind of swing to the oppo doesn't happen in one go. So the thing they'd be well advised to do, they're not fgoing to get a chance to do. In the meantime.... So that leads back towards co-operating with other parties to get to a point where they can do something. It's either no power and purity, (and the tories carrying on making things worse) or power with some co-operation. I detest this siloed "party first" bollex. They're up the creek with no paddle, and the crew are refusing to use an oar because it's got a green logo on it, or a Bird logo or a Welsh flag on it. If you look at the things that need sorting out, that need changing - there's not much difference in what the Labours, Greens, Libs or Plaid view as the things that matter - enviro, NHS, Housing, and there's not a massive difference in what to do about it, or even how to do it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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