The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[blandy]

3 minutes ago, peterms said:

Cheeky boy.

Sorry, with the Clough thing I was meaning like this:

“Brian , you need to stop doing anti semitism”

”Well, young man, what we’ll do here is have a sensible discussion about the difference between antisemitism and antizionism, and the difference between criticism of the actions of Israel and being antisemitic, for the next 20 minutes and then we’ll decide I was right to praise the murderer”

 

[OutByEaster?]

9 hours ago, blandy said:

But BDS, yeah definitely. I agree there.

Racist!

[peterms]

Another point to make about the latest smear is that it is based on deliberate misrepresentation.

What Corbyn is reported as saying is

Quote

“The other evening we had a meeting in Parliament in which Manuel made an incredibly powerful and passionate and effective speech about the history of Palestine and the rights of the Palestinian people. This was dutifully recorded by the – the thankfully silent Zionists who were in the audience on that occasion and then came up and berated him afterwards for what he had said.  They clearly have two problems: one is they don’t want to study history and secondly having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives, they don’t understand English irony either. Manuel does understand English irony and he uses it very very effectively.”

How this is relayed, including by the anti-Corbyn article from which I copied this, here, is that he is referring to all Zionists, when even a child would understand the comment to refer to the specific people who berated the speaker.

It is further extended to suggest he refers to all Jews, which is an even greater lie.

But it seems that many people have been taken in by the lies.

This is part of the reason why dialogue is becoming pointless; it assumes good faith, which appears to be lacking.

[blandy]

4 hours ago, peterms said:

even a child would understand the comment to refer to the specific people who berated the speaker

Yeah, ‘cus when I called them **** blokes  **** *******s I wasn’t calling all ****s *******s, only those blokes, so I int racist, innit.

but he’s done himself no favours there, he really hasn’t. He knows it, too.

[HanoiVillan]

The absolute **** state of this country, I swear to God

 

[tonyh29]

Becoming ?

Thought it already was  

 

[peterms]

And the latest smear: Aaranovitch suggests Corbyn was linked to a group who "may have been" linked to the Warrington bombing (treading carefully in view of the libel laws).  Earlier that day, Wikipedia is edited to link Corbyn to that group.

Full marks for malevolence and persistence; subtlety, not so much.

[sharkyvilla]

On 26/08/2018 at 12:04, tonyh29 said:

Becoming ?

Thought it already was  

 

Surely about time we added 'Jew hating' to the title of the thread innit?

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, peterms said:

And the latest smear: Aaranovitch suggests Corbyn was linked to a group who "may have been" linked to the Warrington bombing (treading carefully in view of the libel laws).  Earlier that day, Wikipedia is edited to link Corbyn to that group.

Full marks for malevolence and persistence; subtlety, not so much.

He once wrote a book called 'Voodoo Histories', which was a 'stinging assault on the shocking, dotty and sinister world of modern conspiracy theories', per the jacket blurb. 

[bickster]

Getting beyond silly now

 

[peterms]

14 minutes ago, bickster said:

Getting beyond silly now

 

Yes.  Though I don't suppose Javid's daft tweet is meant to stand up to scrutiny, it's just there to add to the torrent.  The fact of it existing counts for more than the spurious content.  Most who read it won't care to think about it too much, and it's done its job.

[bickster]

Just now, peterms said:

Yes.  Though I don't suppose Javid's daft tweet is meant to stand up to scrutiny, it's just there to add to the torrent.  The fact of it existing counts for more than the spurious content.  Most who read it won't care to think about it too much, and it's done its job.

Yes, very Trumpian

[Chindie]

You just look at that comment from Javid, supposedly someone in with a shout at replacing May, and just despair at the state of politics in this country.

[peterms]

 

[peterms]

I see that nice Mr Sacks has criticised Corbyn.

Hmmm, Mr Sacks.

 

[magnkarl]

Again Peter, just because the people criticizing Corbyn are sometimes idiots themselves doesn't mean that their points are moot. Sacks, Javid et. al. clearly have an agenda, but Corbyn is the one who's made it extremely easy to pin something on him with his partisan back bencher shit-show.

Sacks isn't chief Rabbi anymore for good reason, Corbyn is the leader of the opposition party and he's got no clear strategy on how to deal with his naive past. Just like many of his supporters he's stuck in the mindset of "I did it for peace", or "you're just as bad as me!", when in fact he's had a whole career of extremely unfortunate decisions. The biggest gripe that people have with him in the community that I frequent is that he left Livingstone in the party so long after he clearly had no intention of owning up to his idiocy. There is no consistency in the way he's dealing with any of this which shows that he's got an internal conflict about the issue himself.

When you get "ZIIIIO" chanted at yourself enough by the same kind of people that Corbyn used to be when he was a back-bencher it's not Israel-specific anymore. It's bullying and a pattern of racism. It's a way to suppress someone's view in a way that isn't acceptable in any British political party.

[Chindie]

Frank Field's resigned the whip.

Good riddance.

He's claimed it's because of a culture of nastiness in the party (dogwhistle).

If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Chindie

[peterms]

On 29/08/2018 at 12:13, magnkarl said:

When you get "ZIIIIO" chanted at yourself enough by the same kind of people that Corbyn used to be when he was a back-bencher it's not Israel-specific anymore. It's bullying and a pattern of racism. It's a way to suppress someone's view in a way that isn't acceptable in any British political party.

Two things on this.  First, if you think Corbyn is or was the kind of person who chants insults at others to bully them, I suggest you are wrong.  He has very, very often been the subject of inappropriate personal attacks by political opponents, but when he attacks others, it's on the basis of challenging (often forcefully) their views or their conduct, not levelling personal insults or seeking to intimidate.  Linking him to people chanting at you on the basis that you place their views in a similar part of the political spectrum is desperate.

Second, the point about suppressing views is deliciously ironical.  The whole thing is a concerted effort to suppress criticism of Israel.  That's what it's all about.

[blandy]

3 minutes ago, peterms said:

if you think Corbyn is or was the kind of person who chants insults at others to bully them, I suggest you are wrong. 

Yes, absolutely wrong....

 

...His people, his "band of furious tramps*" do that for him, whether online or in person.

 

*(c) stewart lee

[peterms]

Poor old Frank.  He did some good work at CPAG, and subsequently on poverty issues as an MP.  Over the years he seems to have retreated into a kind of inner space, drifting away from working with others, slightly monastic.  He seemed to be headed for deselection over Brexit, having lasted many years and having had many disagreements with party members. There are limits to how much of a maverick anyone can be if they want to be in a political party, and I guess he recognised that.