The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[blandy]

15 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

He didn't, one is talking about victims, one is talking about perpetrators. The times article is behind a paywall so can't see Rob Liddles nuanced comments.

To be fair, the victims and perpetrators largely come from the same, er, demographic.

[Jareth]

Labour being pressured by the NEU to include free school meals for primary aged kids in England as part of its manifesto. Labour not particularly giving ground at this moment. I get we are all waiting for the big policy reveal but on issues like this, if they don't differentiate from the tories soon, why would anyone vote for them simply because they are saying they'd be less shit? Get Marcus Rashford front and centre and commit to free school meals, it's not hard.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Jareth

[bickster]

25 minutes ago, Jareth said:

if they don't differentiate from the tories soon

What is this nonsense?

Are the Tory Party committed to scrapping their own Anti-Union legislation?

There are plenty of other glaringly obvious differentiations pretty much across the policy spectrum but I mention the above in particular because of the sea change in policy, that the left / unions should approve of that indicates Labour's path ahead for policy

Freeze Council Tax, paid for by windfall tax on Oil and Gas companies

Re-introduction of neighbourhood policing

Free Breakfast clubs in Primary Schools (paid for by abolishing Non Dom Status)

Do any of those sound like the Tory Party?

They are already quite clearly not the same

 

 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

Lab 44 % (LAB -1 from 9th April)

Con 29 % 

Politico GE Poll https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/
April 14th

 

 

 

 

[Jareth]

55 minutes ago, bickster said:

They are already quite clearly not the same

That's not the perception they're going for at the moment - but of course, we see this differently.

[bickster]

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

That's not the perception they're going for at the moment - but of course, we see this differently.

Yes I see it objectively as I'm not voting Labour as it currently stands. You on the other hand appear to be basing your statements on your own biases and not any kind of analysis

There is nothing wrong with that as such but I find that saying Labour are the same as the Tory Party doesn't really stack up when you look at the currently announced policy differences and the currently announced policies are massively different, with a completely different focus as you'd hope for.

[Jareth]

3 hours ago, bickster said:

Yes I see it objectively as I'm not voting Labour as it currently stands. You on the other hand appear to be basing your statements on your own biases and not any kind of analysis

There is nothing wrong with that as such but I find that saying Labour are the same as the Tory Party doesn't really stack up when you look at the currently announced policy differences and the currently announced policies are massively different, with a completely different focus as you'd hope for.

Disagree. So too a lot of politics commentators. Easy enough to find them on t’internet. 

[bickster]

23 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Disagree. So too a lot of politics commentators. Easy enough to find them on t’internet. 

Yeah, that really isn't an answer. Those political commentators will be the ones that reflect your own biases. We all do it's a natural thing to do

But when you look at the currently announced policies, they are miles apart. I gave you just a few brief examples, I notice you haven't disputed them so you must think they align with Tory policy and ideology (they clearly do not)

[Jareth]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Yeah, that really isn't an answer. Those political commentators will be the ones that reflect your own biases. We all do it's a natural thing to do

But when you look at the currently announced policies, they are miles apart. I gave you just a few brief examples, I notice you haven't disputed them so you must think they align with Tory policy and ideology (they clearly do not)

How do you account for the fact that they are both chasing the same small group of ‘hero voters’? Politics is about this group that will deliver the next election. How radically different is Labour’s message to them other than ‘you can trust us we are less shit?’ 

[KentVillan]

7 hours ago, Jareth said:

That's not the perception they're going for at the moment - but of course, we see this differently.

Nonsense. The Corbynite left can’t accept that their electoral strategy was bonkers and Starmer actually knows what he’s doing, so they’re reduced to throwing Tory Lite accusations at him while he slowly works his way to the first Labour majority in over a decade.

It’s very obvious from just a cursory glance at the Labour MPs and candidates that they will be a different party with different priorities.

[KentVillan]

12 minutes ago, Jareth said:

How do you account for the fact that they are both chasing the same small group of ‘hero voters’? Politics is about this group that will deliver the next election. How radically different is Labour’s message to them other than ‘you can trust us we are less shit?’ 

Those voters aren’t true blue Tories though. That’s the whole point.

And each party will naturally appeal to those same voters on different strengths and policy areas.

Just because you’re trying to win over the same voters at the margins doesn’t mean you stand for identical things.

[Jareth]

32 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Those voters aren’t true blue Tories though. That’s the whole point.

And each party will naturally appeal to those same voters on different strengths and policy areas.

Just because you’re trying to win over the same voters at the margins doesn’t mean you stand for identical things.

They’re not the margins - they’re the main battle ground - both parties want them - and will tailor their message to get them. Hence starmer is in lock step with the tories. 

[meregreen]

No he isn’t.

[bickster]

9 minutes ago, Jareth said:

They’re not the margins - they’re the main battle ground - both parties want them - and will tailor their message to get them. Hence starmer is in lock step with the tories. 

The margins are the battleground, its the same thing.

The core doesn't need persuading

Let's try this another way.

Which Labour policies are the same as the Tory ones?

SO far you've not challenged or even commented on the policies I mentioned, you just keep ploughing on with your same point citing ZERO evidence to back it up
 

[blandy]

6 minutes ago, bickster said:

Which Labour policies are the same as the Tory ones?

All the ones the tories stole! - like windfall tax, energy price cap, that kind of thing. All the things they said were terrible, until they decided they might be a good idea after all.

[villaajax]

The core don't need persuading? Starmer has lost 3 Labour votes in this house alone. I know he's lost my neighbours opposite too, so that's 5. Maybe seems nothing but how far does it spread? When I was a member, the people who actually bothered to go to CLP meetings were pretty left wing generally and now they're not even standing a candidate here for the local elections last I checked.

[bickster]

Just now, blandy said:

All the ones the tories stole! - like windfall tax, energy price cap, that kind of thing. All the things they said were terrible, until they decided they might be a good idea after all.

Well yes quite! Labour lead the line on both of those. The Tories criticised them for it and then enacted them because they were popular. People also saw through that

[bickster]

32 minutes ago, villaajax said:

The core don't need persuading? Starmer has lost 3 Labour votes in this house alone. I know he's lost my neighbours opposite too, so that's 5.

So by definition, you aren't their core voters because you aren't voting for them

Which of Labour's policies do you object to that have caused to to cast your vote elsewhere?

[Jareth]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Which Labour policies are the same as the Tory ones?

SO far you've not challenged or even commented on the policies I mentioned, you just keep ploughing on with your same point citing ZERO evidence to back it up
 

Where are they both on the biggest issue at the previous election - Brexit? 

[ml1dch]

2 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Where are they both on the biggest issue at the previous election - Brexit? 

That it is a thing that has happened?