The Tim Sherwood Thread

[Neil]

Sherwood now and fat sam later?  Isn't that the wrong way round?  It should have been, if anything, fat sam in now and sherwood in later.

 

Sam would have been great to keep us up, but not a long term prospect.  You know what you'll get with him, it's quite predictable mid table meritocrac over the longterm.

 

No thanks, I'd rather take a gamble on the unpredictable but strangely exciting Sherwood to see what he can do with a fresh season.  I would never have picked him as the guy to keep us up in a million years (unproven), but the more I think about it...he has everything to prove with us so keeping us up will be the kick start for his career.

 

Nothing against Sam, he's a good manager in the way he sets teams up hard to beat and he'd done well for a spell with a new style of play at wet spam.  But mid table seems to be his place, we just don't know what Sherwoods place is and that excites me a little bit.  

 

I really want to see what Tim can do given a full season without relegation looming, attack attack attack.

[smetrov]

Sherwood now and fat sam later?  Isn't that the wrong way round?  It should have been, if anything, fat sam in now and sherwood in later.

 

Sam would have been great to keep us up, but not a long term prospect.  You know what you'll get with him, it's quite predictable mid table meritocrac over the longterm.

 

No thanks, I'd rather take a gamble on the unpredictable but strangely exciting Sherwood to see what he can do with a fresh season.  I would never have picked him as the guy to keep us up in a million years (unproven), but the more I think about it...he has everything to prove with us so keeping us up will be the kick start for his career.

 

Nothing against Sam, he's a good manager in the way he sets teams up hard to beat and he'd done well for a spell with a new style of play at wet spam.  But mid table seems to be his place, we just don't know what Sherwoods place is and that excites me a little bit.  

 

I really want to see what Tim can do given a full season without relegation looming, attack attack attack.

 

I think with the budget constraints the best we can hope for is mid table.

 

Personally I think big sam is far more likley to deliver mid table than Sherwood.

 

Sherwood hasn't kept us up yet - and with 2 wins against very poor opposition - I think a lot people are seeing something in Sherwood which isn't actually there.

Edited March 31, 2015 by smetrov

[terrytini]

Sherwood may or may not be the answer, but I find it odd when you say 'two wins against very poor opposition'.......they were both above us in the table, and how many wins against ' poor opposition' had we had recently ?,...not to mention a win in the cup and as many goals since he's been here as in the last how many months ?

Also it ignores the clearly improved performances.

As I say, not saying he will succeed ( although I think he will ) but I think your analysis unfairly negative.

[terrytini]

And personally I no more understand why anyone would want Allerdyce than I do why they would want Pulis.

As a minimum I want to see watchable football for my 30 odd quid !

[smetrov]

Sherwood may or may not be the answer, but I find it odd when you say 'two wins against very poor opposition'.......they were both above us in the table, and how many wins against ' poor opposition' had we had recently ?,...not to mention a win in the cup and as many goals since he's been here as in the last how many months ?

Also it ignores the clearly improved performances.

As I say, not saying he will succeed ( although I think he will ) but I think your analysis unfairly negative.

 

I m not saying its not an improvement on the tail end of the Lambert era. - That wouldn't have taken much.

 

I don't see Sherwood delivering anything other than another relegation battle next season - assuming he keep us up this season.

 

As for my negative analysis - I feel that if Big Sam were in charge next season - we would finish higher up the league than with TS 

[Neil]

 

Sherwood now and fat sam later?  Isn't that the wrong way round?  It should have been, if anything, fat sam in now and sherwood in later.

 

Sam would have been great to keep us up, but not a long term prospect.  You know what you'll get with him, it's quite predictable mid table meritocrac over the longterm.

 

No thanks, I'd rather take a gamble on the unpredictable but strangely exciting Sherwood to see what he can do with a fresh season.  I would never have picked him as the guy to keep us up in a million years (unproven), but the more I think about it...he has everything to prove with us so keeping us up will be the kick start for his career.

 

Nothing against Sam, he's a good manager in the way he sets teams up hard to beat and he'd done well for a spell with a new style of play at wet spam.  But mid table seems to be his place, we just don't know what Sherwoods place is and that excites me a little bit.  

 

I really want to see what Tim can do given a full season without relegation looming, attack attack attack.

 

I think with the budget constraints the best we can hope for is mid table.

 

Personally I think big sam is far more likley to deliver mid table than Sherwood.

 

Sherwood hasn't kept us up yet - and with 2 wins against very poor opposition - I think a lot people are seeing something in Sherwood which isn't actually there.

 

 

I can't disagree regarding budget constraints, going to be our achilles heel whilst we still have the buffoon of an owner we currently have.

I also agree that we can't get over excited and believe that Sherwood will be better than Sam, there is a long way to go.  However, with Sherwood there is every possibility that he *could* be better than Sam and I find that an exciting prospect over and above what Sam would deliver me for a season of entertainment.

There is plenty to be optimistic about with our current owner already.  Yes, he is a long way from safety, but he has done the unthinkable and given us a zog conundrum and suddenly even Cleverly has come out hiding.  He's also given us more away goals already than the rest of the season, you say we're only beating shit opposition...this is the same opposition who were beating us with ease not so long ago.  I think it's unfair to discount the cup game, this was against a premier league side and our rivals...some of their fans were okay with losing the premier game to us as long as they took the cup game.  It was really imported to them, and over games played that is a 50% win ratio...and we're only 6 games into his tenure.

These are all small steps, and I'm not getting ahead of myself at all but I haven't been this excited about what the Villa will do next for what seems like forever.  I really hope he keeps us up and gets a full season to give it a go, he will wet my appetite 10 fold over what Sam would do.

Of course it could all go horribly wrong from here, I really hope not.  It's just nice to be once again in the unknown about what the future holds, a farcry from the slow painful death we were experiencing.  I was really against Sherwood coming on board because of the sheer fact he was totally unproven and the immediate job was safety, an unknown is not the right guy for that kind of job on paper.  But you know, he's here now and has already eclipsed expectations...even if the opposition was shit.

[smetrov]

 

 

Sherwood now and fat sam later?  Isn't that the wrong way round?  It should have been, if anything, fat sam in now and sherwood in later.

 

Sam would have been great to keep us up, but not a long term prospect.  You know what you'll get with him, it's quite predictable mid table meritocrac over the longterm.

 

No thanks, I'd rather take a gamble on the unpredictable but strangely exciting Sherwood to see what he can do with a fresh season.  I would never have picked him as the guy to keep us up in a million years (unproven), but the more I think about it...he has everything to prove with us so keeping us up will be the kick start for his career.

 

Nothing against Sam, he's a good manager in the way he sets teams up hard to beat and he'd done well for a spell with a new style of play at wet spam.  But mid table seems to be his place, we just don't know what Sherwoods place is and that excites me a little bit.  

 

I really want to see what Tim can do given a full season without relegation looming, attack attack attack.

 

I think with the budget constraints the best we can hope for is mid table.

 

Personally I think big sam is far more likley to deliver mid table than Sherwood.

 

Sherwood hasn't kept us up yet - and with 2 wins against very poor opposition - I think a lot people are seeing something in Sherwood which isn't actually there.

 

 

I can't disagree regarding budget constraints, going to be our achilles heel whilst we still have the buffoon of an owner we currently have.

I also agree that we can't get over excited and believe that Sherwood will be better than Sam, there is a long way to go.  However, with Sherwood there is every possibility that he *could* be better than Sam and I find that an exciting prospect over and above what Sam would deliver me for a season of entertainment.

There is plenty to be optimistic about with our current owner already.  Yes, he is a long way from safety, but he has done the unthinkable and given us a zog conundrum and suddenly even Cleverly has come out hiding.  He's also given us more away goals already than the rest of the season, you say we're only beating shit opposition...this is the same opposition who were beating us with ease not so long ago.  I think it's unfair to discount the cup game, this was against a premier league side and our rivals...some of their fans were okay with losing the premier game to us as long as they took the cup game.  It was really imported to them, and over games played that is a 50% win ratio...and we're only 6 games into his tenure.

These are all small steps, and I'm not getting ahead of myself at all but I haven't been this excited about what the Villa will do next for what seems like forever.  I really hope he keeps us up and gets a full season to give it a go, he will wet my appetite 10 fold over what Sam would do.

Of course it could all go horribly wrong from here, I really hope not.  It's just nice to be once again in the unknown about what the future holds, a farcry from the slow painful death we were experiencing.  I was really against Sherwood coming on board because of the sheer fact he was totally unproven and the immediate job was safety, an unknown is not the right guy for that kind of job on paper.  But you know, he's here now and has already eclipsed expectations...even if the opposition was shit.

 

 

But thats my whole point - if re read your post ...there isn't an awful lot there.

 

You talk about the unknown future ? - but in reality we have lost to Stoke, Newcastle and Swansea  - The future is starring you in the face

[terrytini]

Sherwood now and fat sam later?  Isn't that the wrong way round?  It should have been, if anything, fat sam in now and sherwood in later.

 

Sam would have been great to keep us up, but not a long term prospect.  You know what you'll get with him, it's quite predictable mid table meritocrac over the longterm.

 

No thanks, I'd rather take a gamble on the unpredictable but strangely exciting Sherwood to see what he can do with a fresh season.  I would never have picked him as the guy to keep us up in a million years (unproven), but the more I think about it...he has everything to prove with us so keeping us up will be the kick start for his career.

 

Nothing against Sam, he's a good manager in the way he sets teams up hard to beat and he'd done well for a spell with a new style of play at wet spam.  But mid table seems to be his place, we just don't know what Sherwoods place is and that excites me a little bit.  

 

I really want to see what Tim can do given a full season without relegation looming, attack attack attack.

 

I think with the budget constraints the best we can hope for is mid table.

 

Personally I think big sam is far more likley to deliver mid table than Sherwood.

 

Sherwood hasn't kept us up yet - and with 2 wins against very poor opposition - I think a lot people are seeing something in Sherwood which isn't actually there.

 

I can't disagree regarding budget constraints, going to be our achilles heel whilst we still have the buffoon of an owner we currently have.

I also agree that we can't get over excited and believe that Sherwood will be better than Sam, there is a long way to go.  However, with Sherwood there is every possibility that he *could* be better than Sam and I find that an exciting prospect over and above what Sam would deliver me for a season of entertainment.

There is plenty to be optimistic about with our current owner already.  Yes, he is a long way from safety, but he has done the unthinkable and given us a zog conundrum and suddenly even Cleverly has come out hiding.  He's also given us more away goals already than the rest of the season, you say we're only beating shit opposition...this is the same opposition who were beating us with ease not so long ago.  I think it's unfair to discount the cup game, this was against a premier league side and our rivals...some of their fans were okay with losing the premier game to us as long as they took the cup game.  It was really imported to them, and over games played that is a 50% win ratio...and we're only 6 games into his tenure.

These are all small steps, and I'm not getting ahead of myself at all but I haven't been this excited about what the Villa will do next for what seems like forever.  I really hope he keeps us up and gets a full season to give it a go, he will wet my appetite 10 fold over what Sam would do.

Of course it could all go horribly wrong from here, I really hope not.  It's just nice to be once again in the unknown about what the future holds, a farcry from the slow painful death we were experiencing.  I was really against Sherwood coming on board because of the sheer fact he was totally unproven and the immediate job was safety, an unknown is not the right guy for that kind of job on paper.  But you know, he's here now and has already eclipsed expectations...even if the opposition was shit.

 

But thats my whole point - if re read your post ...there isn't an awful lot there.

 

You talk about the unknown future ? - but in reality we have lost to Stoke, Newcastle and Swansea  - The future is starring you in the face

That's why I was comparing now to before, I think considering how poor, and how low, we were, those adverse results ( but with mostly decent performances) shouldn't be held against him. Swansea are a top ten side and the others are thereabouts, and I would think most of us saw enough in those defeats, added to the wins, to suggest Sherwood could succeed. Not cast iron certainty - who is- but enough to suggest better things to come.

Also I don't expect many draws under TS so may well lose a good few.

I could see us top half AND playing decent football next year from what I've seen so far.

Under Allerdyce I'd be back to not wanting to watch us again, plus he is almost yesterdays man, one of the merry go round managers, at least with TS ( just like Lambo had it worked) we have the chance for Club and Manager to embark on a decent journey together.

[Neil]

 

 

 

Sherwood now and fat sam later?  Isn't that the wrong way round?  It should have been, if anything, fat sam in now and sherwood in later.

 

Sam would have been great to keep us up, but not a long term prospect.  You know what you'll get with him, it's quite predictable mid table meritocrac over the longterm.

 

No thanks, I'd rather take a gamble on the unpredictable but strangely exciting Sherwood to see what he can do with a fresh season.  I would never have picked him as the guy to keep us up in a million years (unproven), but the more I think about it...he has everything to prove with us so keeping us up will be the kick start for his career.

 

Nothing against Sam, he's a good manager in the way he sets teams up hard to beat and he'd done well for a spell with a new style of play at wet spam.  But mid table seems to be his place, we just don't know what Sherwoods place is and that excites me a little bit.  

 

I really want to see what Tim can do given a full season without relegation looming, attack attack attack.

 

I think with the budget constraints the best we can hope for is mid table.

 

Personally I think big sam is far more likley to deliver mid table than Sherwood.

 

Sherwood hasn't kept us up yet - and with 2 wins against very poor opposition - I think a lot people are seeing something in Sherwood which isn't actually there.

 

 

I can't disagree regarding budget constraints, going to be our achilles heel whilst we still have the buffoon of an owner we currently have.

I also agree that we can't get over excited and believe that Sherwood will be better than Sam, there is a long way to go.  However, with Sherwood there is every possibility that he *could* be better than Sam and I find that an exciting prospect over and above what Sam would deliver me for a season of entertainment.

There is plenty to be optimistic about with our current owner already.  Yes, he is a long way from safety, but he has done the unthinkable and given us a zog conundrum and suddenly even Cleverly has come out hiding.  He's also given us more away goals already than the rest of the season, you say we're only beating shit opposition...this is the same opposition who were beating us with ease not so long ago.  I think it's unfair to discount the cup game, this was against a premier league side and our rivals...some of their fans were okay with losing the premier game to us as long as they took the cup game.  It was really imported to them, and over games played that is a 50% win ratio...and we're only 6 games into his tenure.

These are all small steps, and I'm not getting ahead of myself at all but I haven't been this excited about what the Villa will do next for what seems like forever.  I really hope he keeps us up and gets a full season to give it a go, he will wet my appetite 10 fold over what Sam would do.

Of course it could all go horribly wrong from here, I really hope not.  It's just nice to be once again in the unknown about what the future holds, a farcry from the slow painful death we were experiencing.  I was really against Sherwood coming on board because of the sheer fact he was totally unproven and the immediate job was safety, an unknown is not the right guy for that kind of job on paper.  But you know, he's here now and has already eclipsed expectations...even if the opposition was shit.

 

 

But thats my whole point - if re read your post ...there isn't an awful lot there.

 

You talk about the unknown future ? - but in reality we have lost to Stoke, Newcastle and Swansea  - The future is starring you in the face

 

 

Well if by your reckoning that the future is actually staring at me in the face, then I make that a 50% win record...I also add that to his Tottenham 50% win record, average them down...and I get 50% all time win record.

 

Fat sam is less than 40%, Sherwood >>>>>> Sam?

[useless]

If Sherwood keeps us in the division then he'll deserve to stay. Unless whoever takes over can somehow attract a really massive name, and even then it'd probably be harsh on Sherwood to fire him.

[HanoiVillan]

If Sherwood keeps us in the division then he'll deserve to stay. Unless whoever takes over can somehow attract a really massive name, and even then it'd probably be harsh on Sherwood to fire him.

 

I have to agree with this. I'd be very disappointed if he was sacked, there's really no justification for it. 

 

EDIT: It's also a huge waste of money, and whoever we're owned by, we'll still need to meet FFP requirements. I'd rather not sack our brand new manager and instead put that money towards quality player recruitment. 

Edited March 31, 2015 by HanoiVillan

[NSmith22]

 

Sherwood may or may not be the answer, but I find it odd when you say 'two wins against very poor opposition'.......they were both above us in the table, and how many wins against ' poor opposition' had we had recently ?,...not to mention a win in the cup and as many goals since he's been here as in the last how many months ?

Also it ignores the clearly improved performances.

As I say, not saying he will succeed ( although I think he will ) but I think your analysis unfairly negative.

 

I m not saying its not an improvement on the tail end of the Lambert era. - That wouldn't have taken much.

 

I don't see Sherwood delivering anything other than another relegation battle next season - assuming he keep us up this season.

 

As for my negative analysis - I feel that if Big Sam were in charge next season - we would finish higher up the league than with TS 

 

  Your memory must be dodgy at best. Have you even bothered to look at Sam's winning %? These type of discussions should be dead for awhile now that Lambert is gone.

[Mantis]

Seems to me as if some people's main problem with Sherwood is that he isn't as big a "name" as Allardyce is.

[gharperr]

Seems to me as if some people's main problem with Sherwood is that he isn't as big a "name" as Allardyce is.

doubt it has anything to do with "name" and that people just think Allardyce is a better manager (Which of course, is understandable). Weird when i see posts turning their nose at Allardyce "predictable and only mid table in the future" like thats a bad thing for us at the moment. Weve been fighting relegation for past few years...give me comfortable mid table for a few years which allows to grow  anyday.

People are just a little worried about sherwood tactical naivety which is a legit concern. We will see more over the next few weeks i guess . Nothing has looked semi comfortable for us at the moment (only sunderland because theyre the biggest pile of slowness crap i seen all season). All other results has huuuuuuuuge variance in them. Still better than previous manager so i cant complain

Edited April 3, 2015 by gharperr

[Stevo985]

Seems to me as if some people's main problem with Sherwood is that he isn't as big a "name" as Allardyce is.

Or that Allardyce has a proven track record of making teams better, getting them performing above their station and, whilst not playing a particularly attractive style of football (although not as bad as people make out), generally makes his teams pretty good. A manager who, in our position, would be a very good appointment to steady the ship and drag us up the table under our current financial restraints.

 

Whereas Sherwood has achieved the square root of **** all so far in the game. He is purely potential.

 

 

I think the only reason people prefer Sherwood, is because he's an unknown quantity. Rather than having Allardyce who we know would be good, but would never win us the league or get us into the Champions League, they'd prefer to have Sherwood who MIGHT turn out to be the best manager since Brian Clough. Of course he could also turn out to be a bang average manager. But the unknown quantity means he's more exciting.

 

I'm just not sure our football club can turn our nose up at a decent but unspectacular manager in favour of someone who MIGHT be better.

 

That's not to say I want Sherwood sacked, of course not. I'm happy with how he's doing. But people favouring Allardyce aren't doing so purely because he's more well known.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

My problem is not with Allardyce or any other manager you care to mention. Each to their own. I could reel off 5 names instantly who I think would be gettable who I would have prefered at the time. But the time has passed, he's here and he's doing a good job.

The conversation is completely ridiculous. That is what is frustrating me, that I do not understand it. At all.

[gharperr]

International week. Got to fill the threads with nonsense to pass the time

Edited April 3, 2015 by gharperr

[Stevo985]

My problem is not with Allardyce or any other manager you care to mention. Each to their own. I could reel off 5 names instantly who I think would be gettable who I would have prefered at the time. But the time has passed, he's here and he's doing a good job.

The conversation is completely ridiculous. That is what is frustrating me, that I do not understand it. At all.

It's a little premature.

 

But I don't think it's ridiculous.

 

A better manager than our current one, who a lot of people suggested we might get before Sherwood was appointed, will be available in the summer. It's only natural that people might compare the two and discuss what might happen if we're relegated (i.e. the only scenario where sherwood would (and should) lose his job, imo) or what could have been if we'd employed him instead.

 

There's not many, if any, people who think Sherwood should be sacked.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Stevo985

[ozvillafan]

Stevo - I'm too lazy to trawl through the thread. Who is this "better manager"?

[Stevo985]

Sam Allardyce