Big_John_10 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 as I said earlier he's the fifth longest serving manager in the premiership. To be fair, and I'm not getting involved in the argument, but that is a totally misleading statistic that you're using.Why exactly is it misleading? Lambert being 5th gives absolutely no context. The reason he's 5th is down to the nature of the PL, with managers not lasting a long time in their jobs. This isn't a climate where managers routinely last 2/3 years and so saying he's the '5th longest serving manager' is misleading because it offers no context. I could have been working in an office for 3 months and they've taken on 10 new staff in the last month. I could be the longest serving member of staff, but actually when using the context, I haven't been there long at all. This is a football fans forum. Surely you don't have to explain current context about things that are quite obvious to football fans. Well clearly I do, because 3 people think using '5th longest serving manager' in a debate without any context is relevant. Firstly, I doubt anyone will read that stat and think "**** hell he's been here for ages!" And secondly, it is relevant. In terms of modern day football it shows he's been here a while and is certainly relevent when disagreeing with someone who claimed we expect immediate success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Another one of those undisputable 'facts'...ugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 5th longest-serving implies that he's been in the job a long time but really it's not even been 2 years. There's been a high turnover of managers recently in the PL.It implies that he's the 5th longest serving manager in the league. The point is he hasn't just been here a few months. And neither has been given sufficient time nor money to produce a squad capable of better. Why has he not bought world class players? Because he doesn't have world class money. He has spent c. £40m in 4 transfer windows....so £10m a window on average. That doesn't even buy James Milner. Villa are 4th from bottom in the league in terms of gross spend on transfers this season. Only WBA, Stoke and Newcastle have spent less. Fact of the matter is this....Lambert is doing crap because he hasn't been given the resources to do better. It hasn't helped and I think Lerner is the major issue. Unlike most I've thought it for years. But thats not the only reason. His own limitations, poor coaching, managerial skills and decision making has played a big part in his abysmal 2 year period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 12 teams changed managers this season. They skew the stats at the bottom end. The fact of the matter is, 5th longest serving manager says nothing without the context. Which is that he's been here less than 2 seasons. If you think that's a long time then fair enough. But that isn't my point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 5th longest-serving implies that he's been in the job a long time but really it's not even been 2 years. There's been a high turnover of managers recently in the PL.It implies that he's the 5th longest serving manager in the league. The point is he hasn't just been here a few months.And neither has been given sufficient time nor money to produce a squad capable of better. Why has he not bought world class players? Because he doesn't have world class money. He has spent c. £40m in 4 transfer windows....so £10m a window on average. That doesn't even buy James Milner. Villa are 4th from bottom in the league in terms of gross spend on transfers this season. Only WBA, Stoke and Newcastle have spent less. Fact of the matter is this....Lambert is doing crap because he hasn't been given the resources to do better. It hasn't helped and I think Lerner is the major issue. Unlike most I've thought it for years. But thats not the only reason. His own limitations, poor coaching, managerial skills and decision making has played a big part in his abysmal 2 year period. Lerner and the lack of ££ isnt the biggest factor for me in our current situation. That's the lack of a decent footballing brain on the board. The club has no direction no identity. Just the mindless proud (irrelevant) history nonsense. Lambert has made mistakes yes...but so have the players. I believe they've already checked into their holidays on their own heads. The players signed by Lambert on the whole have struggled at PL level because they haven't played there. Sylla came from Ligue2 and looks like a dog chasing a tennis ball. Lambert's failure for signing him Randy's for not allowing Lambert to sign better. I've never expected anyone to agree with me...just tried to construct a debate that acknowledges there are other issues and doesn't rely on "Lambert you're a useless word removed" level arguements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 5th longest-serving implies that he's been in the job a long time but really it's not even been 2 years. There's been a high turnover of managers recently in the PL. It implies that he's the 5th longest serving manager in the league. The point is he hasn't just been here a few months. And neither has he been here for a particularly long time. 5th longest-serving implies that he's been in the job a long time but really it's not even been 2 years. There's been a high turnover of managers recently in the PL. A 'long-time' is contextual though. In the current Premier League managerial climate, he has been given quite a bit of time which is why he is 5th on the list. One could argue that he hasn't had a massive amount of time to sort out the problems at Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Lambert is not even 2 years into his project. How many times do fans need to realise that this is not an instant fix. It's all about building gradually.Lambert has been deprived of most of his major investments for lengthy periods during his current tenure. A lesser manager would have gone under with such massive expectation from the fans but Lambo simply comes out fighting & `Goes Again` as to his credit that is in his DNA. What do fans want him to do, buckle under & quit. Fortunately that is not going to happen. He has the full support of the Board & rightly so as it is their realistic parameters that he has to work in & all things considered he is doing a remarkable job. He never takes a backward step & always plays to win. Even when decimated & paralysed by injuries & regardless of the opposition too. You'll do for me Lambo. Take a bow son, take a bow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) One could argue that he hasn't had a massive amount of time to sort out the problems at Villa. They could. I believe two seasons is enough time though. Edit: By 'enough time' I mean to have acheived a lot more progression than he currently has, not that it's enough time to reach the final step or anything. Edited April 8, 2014 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 The injuries have been unfortunate but it's what happens during a long season so you have to prepare for losing key players at times as best you can. The worst injury crisis I can remember was under Houllier as in his season at one stage we had all our senior midfielders out which meant we had a central midfield of Hogg and Bannan and also our main strikers so we went with the Fonz upfront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) BJ riddle me this before I go to bed. Earlier in the season when people used league position as a barometre of progress, you immediately shot them down because "league position is a misleading stat." However, when somebody uses a 'manager time in job' league table (of sorts) as a reason to show that Lambert should be doing better, it suddenly isn't a misleading stat. Surely you should remain consistent with your approach that both 'league tables' are misleading without context? Just a bit baffled that's all. Edited April 8, 2014 by StefanAVFC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Lambert is not even 2 years into his project. How many times do fans need to realise that this is not an instant fix. It's all about building gradually.Lambert has been deprived of most of his major investments for lengthy periods during his current tenure. A lesser manager would have gone under with such massive expectation from the fans but Lambo simply comes out fighting & `Goes Again` as to his credit that is in his DNA. What do fans want him to do, buckle under & quit. Fortunately that is not going to happen. He has the full support of the Board & rightly so as it is their realistic parameters that he has to work in & all things considered he is doing a remarkable job. He never takes a backward step & always plays to win. Even when decimated & paralysed by injuries & regardless of the opposition too. You'll do for me Lambo. Take a bow son, take a bow. Get a grip, mate. The club is in a downward spiral under Lambert. Even a blind man could see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 One could argue that he hasn't had a massive amount of time to sort out the problems at Villa. They could. I believe two seasons is enough time though. Edit: By 'enough time' I mean to have acheived a lot more progression than he currently has, not that it's enough time to reach the final step or anything. With the current financial restrictions I'm not so sure. Hasn't been helped this season by horrendous injuries either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 12 teams changed managers this season. They skew the stats at the bottom end. The fact of the matter is, 5th longest serving manager says nothing without the context. Which is that he's been here less than 2 seasons. If you think that's a long time then fair enough. But that isn't my point. It says only four mangers in the premier league and looking at it further 21 managers in the whole football league have had had more time in the job than Paul Lambert. Is a debate for another time/thread whether mangers get the sack to soon, so I'm still failing to grasp how using a statistic which compares how long a football manger has been in a job compared to his peers is out of context when used in a football forum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 And I can't put it any simpler without coming across as a patronising wotsit. Good night then I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Lambert is not even 2 years into his project. How many times do fans need to realise that this is not an instant fix. It's all about building gradually.Lambert has been deprived of most of his major investments for lengthy periods during his current tenure. A lesser manager would have gone under with such massive expectation from the fans but Lambo simply comes out fighting & `Goes Again` as to his credit that is in his DNA. What do fans want him to do, buckle under & quit. Fortunately that is not going to happen. He has the full support of the Board & rightly so as it is their realistic parameters that he has to work in & all things considered he is doing a remarkable job. He never takes a backward step & always plays to win. Even when decimated & paralysed by injuries & regardless of the opposition too. You'll do for me Lambo. Take a bow son, take a bow. Get a grip, mate. The club is in a downward spiral under Lambert. Even a blind man could see that. No! We are actually in a plateau stage & hopefully soon ready to kick on onwards & upwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) 12 teams changed managers this season. They skew the stats at the bottom end. The fact of the matter is, 5th longest serving manager says nothing without the context. Which is that he's been here less than 2 seasons. If you think that's a long time then fair enough. But that isn't my point.It says only four mangers in the premier league and looking at it further 21 managers in the whole football league have had had more time in the job than Paul Lambert. Is a debate for another time/thread whether mangers get the sack to soon, so I'm still failing to grasp how using a statistic which compares how long a football manger has been in a job compared to his peers is out of context when used in a football forum. Edit...misread the post. Too tired to give a shit anymore today. Night all. Edited April 8, 2014 by Eames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 After 2 years we're pretty much as bad as when Lambert took the job. It is time to cut our losses with this manager and start again with someone who can get us playing decent football regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 There are 12 on my count (but it is late). StokeChelseaFulham NorwichCardiffSwanseaMan Utd Spurs Man City Palace West Brom Sunderland Just this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 One could argue that he hasn't had a massive amount of time to sort out the problems at Villa. They could. I believe two seasons is enough time though. Edit: By 'enough time' I mean to have acheived a lot more progression than he currently has, not that it's enough time to reach the final step or anything. With the current financial restrictions I'm not so sure. Hasn't been helped this season by horrendous injuries either. We have a squad though. For example, Lambert chose to give Clark and Baker new contracts in the summer so if neither are good enough to offset Okore's* injury then that is a result of a failure in his judgement. *And although he is a promising talent, we can't know how much of a success he would've been this season anyway in truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) And I can't put it any simpler without coming across as a patronising wotsit. Good night then I suppose. Stefan - It's way way best your bed time Sweet Dreams ps - it's way past my bed time too. Cocoa anyone? Edited April 8, 2014 by villa-revolution 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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