dn1982 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I think at times people on here over simplify things regarding the hoof ball. We are no where near what Stoke were. Since Lambert has been here we have always tried to knock the ball about from defence sometimes our movement hasn't been good enough further forward so we end up lumping it which I agree at times was awful. I'd say there's games where playing the longer ball was a tactic but we don't aimlessly hit it. In Benteke we have someone who's very good in the air so why not use it. Unfortunately because he is so good it also becomes the easy ball out instead of trying harder to pass it. I don't think it's a coincidence that when we hit a bad run and confidence was low we resorted to it more. We can play good football and with confidence and more creative signings down the road it will get even better. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Well either way, I just don't accept that Lambert sends the team out with instructions to play negative hoofball. Three centre-backs against a West Ham side playing with no strikers? The negativity is implicit in the selections and tactical nature of them. It doesn't have to be verbal. That is just your view, my view is that he picks a line up and formation that gives him what he thinks is the best chance of winning the game. On top of that, McLeish played hoofball to actually not lose a game, not by winning it hence the despair. You keep bringing McLeish into this argument, but lets not forget this is the same man who at the Emirates said we need to re-allign our ambitions here as we shouldn't expect to win there. Anyway lets just end this one, McLeish in his first season won 7 games out of 38. This season this hoofball manager has won 9 from 31. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I don't really think we do play long ball (I'm sick of this daft term goofball) half as much as you do Stats have showed we play more long balls than the vast majority of teams in the league. I'd say that's a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 17, 2014 Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2014 I don't really think we do play long ball (I'm sick of this daft term goofball) half as much as you do Stats have showed we play more long balls than the vast majority of teams in the league. I'd say that's a lot. Ah yes stat's the new way everything has to be judged in football. I prefer to just watch football and draw my own conclusions, after all stats have been used before to claim Bannan was a potentially world class player and the best crosser of a ball in the PL. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 This season this hoofball manager has won 9 from 31. 9 from 29. Also more home wins than McLeish's season already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Well yes I watch football and see we play a lot of long ball. And I was wrong the stats actually show no team plays more long balls per game than us. That's the kind of stat that supports what I see with my eyes. Not sure how that stat can be viewed any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted March 17, 2014 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2014 Well yes I watch football and see we play a lot of long ball. And I was wrong the stats actually show no team plays more long balls per game than us. That's the kind of stat that supports what I see with my eyes. Not sure how that stat can be viewed any other way. Well that is your view, it doesn't mean that your assertion that Lambert sends the team out with this express aim is correct. As for stats, as I said previously with the example of Bannan they can be made to show anything anyone wants I pay little attention to them not least because a stat on long ball doesn't take into account the nature of the pass itself. They would I assume not see the difference between a quick, long range pass to catch a side on the break and one hit aimlessly into the corner of the pitch. Stats are really quite misleading at times. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Can any one clarify what is classed as a long ball these days? To me there's a hell of a difference between hitting and hoping a long pass and picking out a target man. I know we do play lots of passes down the channels for our wide men. Were as West Ham hit Carroll from all angles then feed off him especially at home. When does a short pass become a long pass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I don't think you can base a whole opinion on stats but I also don't think you can dismiss them like you have just to suit your argument. Its a fact we play more long balls per game than anyone else in the league. Combined with that only 2 teams play less short passes a game than us. West ham and palace, two managers known for certain styles. I think its quite clear we play a lot of long balls and I find it very hard to believe a team playing it that often do it without the instructions of the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 So what constitutes a long ball then? 30 yards +? 40 yards +? maybe even 20 yards+? No-one knows, it's not definitive therefore it's irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 17, 2014 Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2014 I don't think you can base a whole opinion on stats but I also don't think you can dismiss them like you have just to suit your argument. Its a fact we play more long balls per game than anyone else in the league. Combined with that only 2 teams play less short passes a game than us. West ham and palace, two managers known for certain styles. I think its quite clear we play a lot of long balls and I find it very hard to believe a team playing it that often do it without the instructions of the manager. I don't have an argument as such, I just don't think you can claim to know under what instructions the team take to the pitch based upon stats. As I've tried to show there are other considerations. I simply don't much care what the stats say, I watch our games and I don't consider us a long ball side. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 17, 2014 Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2014 So what constitutes a long ball then? 30 yards +? 40 yards +? maybe even 20 yards+? No-one knows, it's not definitive therefore it's irrelevant. Indeed. It doesn't I would imagine take into account the accuracy or nature of the ball itself. Bannan used to get almost all of his corners into the box so had good stats but we all know they were rubbish because he just floated them in. Stats can be hugely misleading and aren't really of a lot of interest to me personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Well I watch our games and I think we've played far too much long ball at times. This is why I think its something the manager has instructed. Statistics support what I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) He had us playing exciting yet sometimes car crash football last season. After Benteke got injured he had a big brain fart and decided the best way to not concede is to touch the ball as little as possible. The 2-2 draw at Anfield seemed to re-awaken him to the benefits of actually holding onto the ball and looking for a pass. Edited March 17, 2014 by Wainy316 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Stats can be hugely misleading I agree and stats have to be taken into context and thought about. When talking about how often we play long ball surely stats on long balls and short passes per game are relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 On top of that, McLeish played hoofball to actually not lose a game, not by winning it hence the despair. You keep bringing McLeish into this argument, but lets not forget this is the same man who at the Emirates said we need to re-allign our ambitions here as we shouldn't expect to win there. Sorry to disappoint you SIT but this was a discussion about whether Lambert intends for the team to play as it does at times. McLeish wasn't mentioned as he isn't relevant to the tactics employed by his successor. Anyway lets just end this one, McLeish in his first season won 7 games out of 38. This season this hoofball manager has won 9 from 31. Firstly, you are the one who just butted into the conversation, so please don't tell me to 'end it' as if it were solely between me and you. Also, we are talking about style of play and set-up of the team, which is not automatically linked to results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) We also can, and do, pass it short. This Delph video shows our shorter passing play around 2:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aGDQ_ZoZEQ Edited March 17, 2014 by GENTLEMAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 17, 2014 Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2014 Stats can be hugely misleading I agree and stats have to be taken into context and thought about. When talking about how often we play long ball surely stats on long balls and short passes per game are relevant. Would you consider say Southampton to be a long ball team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 17, 2014 Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2014 On top of that, McLeish played hoofball to actually not lose a game, not by winning it hence the despair. You keep bringing McLeish into this argument, but lets not forget this is the same man who at the Emirates said we need to re-allign our ambitions here as we shouldn't expect to win there. Sorry to disappoint you SIT but this was a discussion about whether Lambert intends for the team to play as it does at times. McLeish wasn't mentioned as he isn't relevant to the tactics employed by his successor. Er…yes he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 So what constitutes a long ball then? 30 yards +? 40 yards +? maybe even 20 yards+? No-one knows, it's not definitive therefore it's irrelevant. On Opta a long ball is 25 yards so a quarter of the pitch! So I assume most crosses corners are counted as long?? I'll use my own judgement and say we are not quite Wimbledon and not quite Barcelona somewhere in the middle like 90% of the league!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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