DCJonah Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Since we are going with completely misleading stats, at least refer to the slightly more relevent one of 'chances created'*: Although anyone who has actually watched our games and isn't engaging in sheer revisionism to try and exonerate the manager doesn't need statistics to know that we are simply not creating anywhere near enough. *This one isn't much better (as I've expanded on a few times in the Westwood thread), just more appropriate to this debate. Excellent post. Watch the game. We do not create lots of good opportunities for our players to score. We're on course to set a premier league record. A team doesn't do that just because a striker is out of form. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If Paul Lambert can see where it's going wrong way has he made no attempt to change it. He has broken just about every bad record there is to break. Anyone in here defending him are either on a wind up or a bit spesh. He is terrible,dour uninspiring and actually a liar as well. The day he leaves this once great club will be the day I start to believe again Just like winding people up by pretending to be ITK then daz? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Just seen an interesting stat.On average it takes us 14.3 shots in the opponents box to score a goal. The next worst to that is Burnley with 7.4 shots average in the opponents box to score a goal. We have been let down by our forwards over the past couple of months. Also over the last 6 games we stand 11th for shots, ahead of Man Utd and Southampton. Normally if we lose its by 1 goal so I think it's fair to say that our forward players are letting us down more than the manager.Genuine question: what counts towards these stats? Because a shot in the box one-on-one with the keeper is different to a shot pinged hopefully against the legs of the three defenders surrounding you, but that difference might not reflected in those stats. Not trying to disprove your point, I'm genuinely interested. Didn't someone say the other day that Aguero only scores 24% of his shots? I suspect he gets many more chances than Benteke, so isn't it expecting a lot of him (Benteke) to convert everything?Well one way to look at that stat is in comparison to other teams and we are by far the worst. As for the 25% chance conversion stat of augero. Bony has a 51% conversion rate for Swansea this season, if Benteke had that we would be challenging for Europe and on the flipside if Bony had the same conversion rate as Benteke then Swansea would be alot nearer the relegation places. Wow that's impressive from bony. But then it would be because it's made up. Bony has an 18% goal scoring rate for Swansea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Just seen an interesting stat.On average it takes us 14.3 shots in the opponents box to score a goal. The next worst to that is Burnley with 7.4 shots average in the opponents box to score a goal. We have been let down by our forwards over the past couple of months. Also over the last 6 games we stand 11th for shots, ahead of Man Utd and Southampton. Normally if we lose its by 1 goal so I think it's fair to say that our forward players are letting us down more than the manager. Genuine question: what counts towards these stats? Because a shot in the box one-on-one with the keeper is different to a shot pinged hopefully against the legs of the three defenders surrounding you, but that difference might not reflected in those stats. Not trying to disprove your point, I'm genuinely interested. Didn't someone say the other day that Aguero only scores 24% of his shots? I suspect he gets many more chances than Benteke, so isn't it expecting a lot of him (Benteke) to convert everything? Well one way to look at that stat is in comparison to other teams and we are by far the worst. As for the 25% chance conversion stat of augero. Bony has a 51% conversion rate for Swansea this season, if Benteke had that we would be challenging for Europe and on the flipside if Bony had the same conversion rate as Benteke then Swansea would be alot nearer the relegation places. Wow that's impressive from bony. But then it would be because it's made up. Bony has an 18% goal scoring rate for Swansea. Lets be having some actual links or quotes here so we can see where these stats are coming from please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Right so now the shift of blame is moving onto Benteke, if he does start scoring and we improve I assume the people saying the forwards have let us down will be congratulating benteke and will give little credit to the manager? I can't imagine that happening somehow. But Benteke was supposed to be our saviour and when he became fit and returned to the side everything would be rosy. How did that work out I wonder. It's only you guys who seem obsessed with finding scapegoats. Some people just like to acknowledge that there's more to the situation than blaming one man, whether that's Lambert or Benteke or anyone else. Seriously! There is nobody absolving Lambert and blaming everything on Lerner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Haha Hull. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think its pretty clear we aren't creating enough quality chances per game but we are creating enough that we should be scoring goals. Also, showing tables of us at the bottom of the attacking charts isn't surprising, we are awful, but those stats should be offset against our defensive ones to show a more balanced view. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agbonla-score Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Haha Hull. Look how many chances QPR have created....and look how prolific Austin is....and look where QPR are in the table. Its about balance, and we're halfway there with a relatively good defence. We're not far off being a decent side gentleman, believe it or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Premier League 2014-2015 - Best Defence Pos. Team Goals against 1 Southampton 16 2 Chelsea 19 3 Manchester United 21 4 Manchester City 22 5 West Ham United 25 5 Arsenal 25 5 Aston Villa 25 8 Liverpool 27 8 Stoke City 27 10 West Bromwich Albion 29 11 Swansea City 30 11 Hull City 30 11 Tottenham Hotspur 30 14 Crystal Palace 33 14 Sunderland 33 16 Leicester City 34 16 Everton 34 18 Newcastle United 35 19 Burnley 36 20 Queens Park Rangers 39 Just to add a bit of balance not saying this means anything either way was just stuck by how bad our attacking stats are bearing in mind league position but as you can see it is offset by the defence. Actually third best in league for away goals condeded. Exciting times... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Premier League 2014-2015 - Best Defence Pos. Team Goals against 1 Southampton 16 2 Chelsea 19 3 Manchester United 21 4 Manchester City 22 5 West Ham United 25 = Arsenal 25 = Aston Villa 25 8 Liverpool 27 = Stoke City 27 10 West Bromwich Albion 29 11 Swansea City 30 = Hull City 30 = Tottenham Hotspur 30 14 Crystal Palace 33 = Sunderland 33 16 Leicester City 34 = Everton 34 18 Newcastle United 35 19 Burnley 36 20 Queens Park Rangers 39 Sorry, Just had to edit it for my own eyes so thought i'd post it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Premier League 2014-2015 - Best Defence Pos. Team Goals against 1 Southampton 16 2 Chelsea 19 3 Manchester United 21 4 Manchester City 22 5 West Ham United 25 = Arsenal 25 = Aston Villa 25 8 Liverpool 27 = Stoke City 27 10 West Bromwich Albion 29 11 Swansea City 30 = Hull City 30 = Tottenham Hotspur 30 14 Crystal Palace 33 = Sunderland 33 16 Leicester City 34 = Everton 34 18 Newcastle United 35 19 Burnley 36 20 Queens Park Rangers 39 Sorry, Just had to edit it for my own eyes so thought i'd post it anyway. Be interesting to see this table after we have played Arsenal and Chelsea over the next couple of weeks. Perhaps you could update it and post it again. If we are still as high up it would be really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Be interesting to see this table after we have played Arsenal and Chelsea over the next couple of weeks. Perhaps you could update it and post it again. If we are still as high up it would be really good. Well to be honest now and the end of the season are the best times to look at tables like this as you've either played every team once or twice. I think its obvious we won't be that high after those games just as it would probably be obvious that we'd be in a similar position as we are now if we had a run of games against Hull and Sunderland coming up instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Be interesting to see this table after we have played Arsenal and Chelsea over the next couple of weeks. Perhaps you could update it and post it again. If we are still as high up it would be really good. Well to be honest now and the end of the season are the best times to look at tables like this as you've either played every team once or twice. I think its obvious we won't be that high after those games just as it would probably be obvious that we'd be in a similar position as we are now if we had a run of games against Hull and Sunderland coming up instead. A good politicians answer. After 19 games and at the end of the season would actually be the best times but hey ho, I am not going to fall out with my new bestie over a couple of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Be interesting to see this table after we have played Arsenal and Chelsea over the next couple of weeks. Perhaps you could update it and post it again. If we are still as high up it would be really good. Well to be honest now and the end of the season are the best times to look at tables like this as you've either played every team once or twice. I think its obvious we won't be that high after those games just as it would probably be obvious that we'd be in a similar position as we are now if we had a run of games against Hull and Sunderland coming up instead. A good politicians answer. After 19 games and at the end of the season would actually be the best times but hey ho, I am not going to fall out with my new bestie over a couple of games. I'll happily edit and repost it but you get the point i'm making. After the next 2 games that table will most likely look a lot better for those with the viewpoint that Lambert should go whereas if we had Hull and Sunderland it would probably suit the people who think Lambert should stay. I've said this before, stats are easy to tweak for whatever agenda you may have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Be interesting to see this table after we have played Arsenal and Chelsea over the next couple of weeks. Perhaps you could update it and post it again. If we are still as high up it would be really good. Well to be honest now and the end of the season are the best times to look at tables like this as you've either played every team once or twice. I think its obvious we won't be that high after those games just as it would probably be obvious that we'd be in a similar position as we are now if we had a run of games against Hull and Sunderland coming up instead. A good politicians answer. After 19 games and at the end of the season would actually be the best times but hey ho, I am not going to fall out with my new bestie over a couple of games. I'll happily edit and repost it but you get the point i'm making. After the next 2 games that table will most likely look a lot better for those with the viewpoint that Lambert should go whereas if we had Hull and Sunderland it would probably suit the people who think Lambert should stay. I've said this before, stats are easy to tweak for whatever agenda you may have. Just to show that I have no hidden agenda do it at the end of February when we have also played Hull, Stoke and Newcastle. That seems fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Just to show that I have no hidden agenda do it at the end of February when we have also played Hull, Stoke and Newcastle. That seems fair. Like the results matter anyway, you'll still be calling for his head. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) The stat is that we score 1 goal per 14.3 shots inside the box, we are bottom of that table. Burnley are second from bottom with 1 goal per 7.4 shots inside the box. Chelsea are top with 1 goal per 3.4 shots inside the box. The stat is relevant in the sense that it shows we are way behind everyone else in the league for taking our chances. Can you provide a link that shows us these stats? So (if I read this right) we need 14.3 shots per goal, we have 11 goals, 11x14.3= 157.3, this means we would have had 7.15 shots in the area per game, which means, in theory, we will score in half our games only. Why hasn't the manager done something to change this? Why not shake up the team? Drop players, change formation? Edited January 22, 2015 by DK82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Haha Hull. Look how many chances QPR have created....and look how prolific Austin is....and look where QPR are in the table. Its about balance, and we're halfway there with a relatively good defence. We're not far off being a decent side gentleman, believe it or not. I think we're a bit away from being 'halfway there'. Our defence is good, but those standards have slipped a bit of late. We kept clean sheets against Sunderland, Palace and Blackpool, but it's all the others teams that we concede against that cause us problems. Earlier this season we kept a clean sheet against Liverpool, then we all know what happened last weekend. Obviously that's just one game, but I don't think we're as watertight at the back as we were earlier in the season, and that's worrying. I would actually say that QPR are the ones that are halfway there to being a decent side. Yes, Austin is relied upon for their goals, but at least they've found a system that suits him and gets him scoring. Their 'chances created' and 'shots' stats are impressive. They're also not that of a relegation battling side, so I think it'll take less for them to become a decent side, than it will for us. Unfortunately, I think it's because end this, that we could see QPR overtake us in the league shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Since we are going with completely misleading stats, at least refer to the slightly more relevent one of 'chances created'*: Although anyone who has actually watched our games and isn't engaging in sheer revisionism to try and exonerate the manager doesn't need statistics to know that we are simply not creating anywhere near enough. *This one isn't much better (as I've expanded on a few times in the Westwood thread), just more appropriate to this debate. We have had good chances and haven't taken any, that's the main point I'm trying to make. If our strikers took a few of them we would be in a much better place. Why are you trying to protect players who are under performing? The blame doesn't just lie with the manager and if you were watching all the games you would know that we have created good chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Just seen an interesting stat.On average it takes us 14.3 shots in the opponents box to score a goal. The next worst to that is Burnley with 7.4 shots average in the opponents box to score a goal. We have been let down by our forwards over the past couple of months. Also over the last 6 games we stand 11th for shots, ahead of Man Utd and Southampton. Normally if we lose its by 1 goal so I think it's fair to say that our forward players are letting us down more than the manager.Genuine question: what counts towards these stats? Because a shot in the box one-on-one with the keeper is different to a shot pinged hopefully against the legs of the three defenders surrounding you, but that difference might not reflected in those stats. Not trying to disprove your point, I'm genuinely interested. Didn't someone say the other day that Aguero only scores 24% of his shots? I suspect he gets many more chances than Benteke, so isn't it expecting a lot of him (Benteke) to convert everything?Well one way to look at that stat is in comparison to other teams and we are by far the worst. As for the 25% chance conversion stat of augero. Bony has a 51% conversion rate for Swansea this season, if Benteke had that we would be challenging for Europe and on the flipside if Bony had the same conversion rate as Benteke then Swansea would be alot nearer the relegation places. Wow that's impressive from bony. But then it would be because it's made up. Bony has an 18% goal scoring rate for Swansea. Well sky put that stat up the other day about Bony so blame them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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