Sunny*Nunny Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Without terrible luck with injuries we would almost have certainly done better to the point that 'progress' has been made, on a shoestring. Yes, all clubs have to deal with injuries but this season has been especially damaging for us. Lambert has also made mistakes, but he's human and will have learned from them. I think it's a shame PL won't be given the opportunity to build on the current squad for a third season with a bigger budget. He's been shafted by Lerner by not releasing funds when needed. Without the good luck we had before Xmas we'd have been relegated for sure. When the luck ran out we sank like a stone. It works both ways. Yes I agree, I think we're lucky to have survived based on us picking up points against Man City and Southampton that we should have lost based on our performances. That was when it became even more glaringly obvious that we needed to inject some quality in January and PL practically said that the money wasn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDish Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 15th place not good enough. No progress points wise either. The two years we should give the manager is over. Has not worked. Let's try a new one and wait until summer 2016 to see if the next one is any good. Two new transitional years waiting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I think most of the criticisms against Lambert are fair ones but this "luck" nonsense is really getting tedious. So is the denial that we have ever had any. Nobody is we haven't had any luck. It's just ridiculous how some people overestimate how much "luck" we've had this season. In the grand scheme of things I don't think we've been that lucky at all. Yet a big point of Lambert's support is how unlucky we have been with injuries, surely talking about luck works both ways. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I think most of the criticisms against Lambert are fair ones but this "luck" nonsense is really getting tedious. So is the denial that we have ever had any. Nobody is we haven't had any luck. It's just ridiculous how some people overestimate how much "luck" we've had this season. In the grand scheme of things I don't think we've been that lucky at all. Yet a big point of Lambert's support is how unlucky we have been with injuries, surely talking about luck works both ways. Luck with injuries is a completely different thing. I'm not even supporting Lambert anyway - I've already said I don't care if he goes, I just think this "luck" thing it's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw_nuff Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) I think most of the criticisms against Lambert are fair ones but this "luck" nonsense is really getting tedious. So is the denial that we have ever had any. Nobody is we haven't had any luck. It's just ridiculous how some people overestimate how much "luck" we've had this season. In the grand scheme of things I don't think we've been that lucky at all. You're picking bits of posts and coming up with nonsense. Quite a few of us pointed out that we were riding our luck in a fair few games at the start of the season. That eventually evened out with injuries. So all in all I'd say luck this year season was neutral. What I object to is PL defenders using luck to justify our position without recognising it runs both ways - that is just blinkered. Edited May 11, 2014 by Shaw_nuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
botak Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Pl Is certainly one to partly blame Magnum? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 15th place not good enough. No progress points wise either. The two years we should give the manager is over. Has not worked. Let's try a new one and wait until summer 2016 to see if the next one is any good. Two new transitional years waiting... What's this 2 years we should give the manager? Some kind of unwritten rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Looking at our history of managers since Saunders, it really is poor. I'd actually say that Big Ron was the only 'good' one. Others like Little and Gregory were ok and the rest including MON just crap. You've omitted the best of the bunch there pal. Graham Taylor in his first spell with us did an unbelievable job. He inherited a way bigger shambles than Lambert and not only got us promoted at the first attempt but two years later we were finishing runners up in the top flight. He revamped the club from top to bottom and did it pretty much on a shoe string budget. I thought we were getting another Graham Taylor in Paul Lambert. I was wrong. Slightly OT but Taylor was a revolutionary when he was at Watford and then Villa. He did so well here because no-one else knew his style of percentage football. He worked it out with Charles Reep that long balls and playing off the percentages was the best tactic. We're way past that now. That's a tiny bit of football tactics these days. He was in the right place at the right time wth the right tactics which is why he took Watford and then us straight upwards, but then found it tough at international level. For my money Ron Atkinson was the best manager since Saunders. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I think most of the criticisms against Lambert are fair ones but this "luck" nonsense is really getting tedious. So is the denial that we have ever had any. Nobody is we haven't had any luck. It's just ridiculous how some people overestimate how much "luck" we've had this season. In the grand scheme of things I don't think we've been that lucky at all. You're picking bits of posts and coming up with nonsense. Quite a few of us pointed out that we were riding our luck in a fair few games at the start of the season. That eventually evened out with injuries. So all in all I'd say luck this year season was neutral. What I object to is PL defenders using luck to justify our position without recognising it runs both ways - that is just blinkered. How can you say that and accuse me of coming up with nonsense? First of all you're comparing "luck" in games with luck in injuries. They're two completely different things. I wouldn't say we were particularly lucky or unlucky as far as games are concerned but we've certainly been unlucky with injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1974Centenary Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Why people think a manager should be given all the time in the world to the detriment of the club is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukes Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 What's this 2 years we should give the manager? Some kind of unwritten rule? The point at which our patience runs out after seeing the team go backwards in pretty much every way ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunny*Nunny Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) Why people think a manager should be given all the time in the world to the detriment of the club is beyond me. I think most people would agree that he needs more money more so than time. The time needed is proportionate to the money provided for transfers and wages. . Edited May 11, 2014 by Sunny*Nunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDish Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 15th place not good enough.No progress points wise either.The two years we should give the manager is over. Has not worked. Let's try a new one and wait until summer 2016 to see if the next one is any good. Two new transitional years waiting... What's this 2 years we should give the manager? Some kind of unwritten rule? It is not a rule. It is just what I think is meaningful to be able to judge how a manager has fared. First season is the start of the transition. Second season we see how he has created his team and how well he has done. I said when Lambert was appointed that he should get two years to show what he can do. That time is now up. I feel most club owners are idiots changing managers before a couple of season has passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw_nuff Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 How can you say that and accuse me of coming up with nonsense? First of all you're comparing "luck" in games with luck in injuries. They're two completely different things. I wouldn't say we were particularly lucky or unlucky as far as games are concerned but we've certainly been unlucky with injuries. Er, because luck, whether in games or with injuries normally leads to greater or fewer points. I'm assuming when posters refer to 'bad luck with injuries' they are saying that we would have gotten a healthier tally with better luck. How does this need explaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Pl Is certainly one to partly blame Magnum? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 How can you say that and accuse me of coming up with nonsense? First of all you're comparing "luck" in games with luck in injuries. They're two completely different things. I wouldn't say we were particularly lucky or unlucky as far as games are concerned but we've certainly been unlucky with injuries. Er, because luck, whether in games or with injuries normally leads to greater or fewer points. I'm assuming when posters refer to 'bad luck with injuries' they are saying that we would have gotten a healthier tally with better luck. How does this need explaining? I know how luck works thanks. All I'm doing is disputing this notion that we had lots of luck in the first half of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 It really doesn't matter though does it. What matters is where we finish and going by that we haven't improved. So much for the mid table position which was always build on sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw_nuff Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 How can you say that and accuse me of coming up with nonsense? First of all you're comparing "luck" in games with luck in injuries. They're two completely different things. I wouldn't say we were particularly lucky or unlucky as far as games are concerned but we've certainly been unlucky with injuries. Er, because luck, whether in games or with injuries normally leads to greater or fewer points. I'm assuming when posters refer to 'bad luck with injuries' they are saying that we would have gotten a healthier tally with better luck. How does this need explaining? I know how luck works thanks. All I'm doing is disputing this notion that we had lots of luck in the first half of the season. I'm certainly not going to but if you feel the need go back and read this thread around Xmas time. There were plenty of posters warning that we were riding our luck at the time and quite frankly some of the replies were out of order. We were getting played off the park quite often and getting away with results. All that has happened is the luck has evened out. But that is only my opinion based on what my own eyes saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 It really doesn't matter though does it. What matters is where we finish and going by that we haven't improved. So much for the mid table position which was always build on sand. If its where we finish then we neither improved or gone backwards. Considering the injuries that's not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunny*Nunny Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I recall that when Hairy Hands explained 'the plan' most people (I think) tended to accept it as being realistic and sensible under the circumstances. Seasons 1 and 2 were going to be difficult due to limited funds being spread thin in order to rebuild nearly a full squad. Season 3 was about having a bigger pot of money to inject quality into the squad which would take us forward. That's where we are now, better players needed. The plan would not have been to scrape through a relegation scrap, but projects rarely go to plan especially when things like injuries to key players have such a big impact on the squad. It was up to Lerner to support the project by adjusting the budget to accommodate the risk, but he said no. I feel next season was the year to see a real improvement but it's going to be cut short as soon as the bulk of the hard work has been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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