Mic09 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 I manage to get to VP once or twice a season, am I a tourist Ads? surely that depends whether you would have a beer outside of VP, and maybe buy yourself or the kids a 50/50 scarf. That is the true measure of somebody being a real fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) I say we completely demolish the stands and just replace them with 4 muddy hills. **** modern football I want pre-historic football. Edited October 11, 2014 by Mantis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 I say we completely demolish the stands and just replace them with 4 muddy hills. **** modern football I want pre-historic football. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuju I say we bring this sh*t back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) I manage to get to VP once or twice a season, am I a tourist Ads?I lot of people seem to have a hard time reading my posts and appear intent on deliberately misinterpreting them, despite the content explicitly stating something to the contrary. Stevo, I haven't said I am content on us slipping down the leagues. I am not sure how you have come to that conclusion. There are several different points of discussion going on here, but to crystallise the issue of increased commercial activity, my frustration with this is that it won't have the serious impact on our ability to compete. I say this because it is the investment that comes from owners in the first instance that makes the difference in reaching the holy grail of Misnomer League football, not the gate revenue or the number of supporters coming in the door, which flows as a consequence of the success attained. Man United are perhaps more unique than Chelsea, Man City or Arsenal, because they were very well supported prior to 1992 and Edwards saw the potential to exploit that before his contemporaries. Almost ten years of unfettered access to the increased revenues and exposure of Champions League created a perfect storm; now they have an official noodle sponsor. Bizarre. The others were able to pump a lot of cash, particularly in Chelsea and Man City's case, into squads to give them that access to the Golden Cow. Arsenal and Liverpool too, as they're able to reap the benefits financially of exploiting tourist dollars, far eastern markets etc, etc- they have the Champions League money which sets their revenues apart dramatically from others, this glitz attracts additional support nationally and globally, we then have the door bolted and sealed behind them with FFP so nobody can spoil the party for the select few. None of this is novel. If Randy were to buy the Villa in 2014, he wouldn't be allowed to put in four years worth of spending equivolent to what took place between 2006-10, because if we were lucky enough to bridge that gap, we would incur a pentalty which wipes out the benefit of the "achievement" in the first place. The system is so rigged, that clubs with significant home support like Newcastle and all the fun they put on with nice bars in and around the stadium, are in exactly the same boat as the likes of ourselves or Everton or Spurs; forever doomed to get as close as pushing your nose against the glass looking in and no further. That is a rotten state of affairs. There is a core of around 20-25,000 Villa fans who turn up at B6 no matter what, there are another 10-12,000 who go very regularly. We were capable of putting 10,000 on top of that for a time; whether that was because we were consistently finishing 6th or whether it was because we were expecting/hopeful that we might bridge the gap, who knows, but we didn't make them stick. They're in a bracket of football supporters that come for the game, not so much because it's Villa but who the Villa are playing, but them coming or not was irrelevant to where we finished. Us slipping down the league table was linked with the level of investment from the owner, the reasons for that not being relevant to this discussion. That's the same with Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and to a lesser extent Arsenal. There is probably a correlation between treatment of supporters and the decrease in dependency of clubs upon the match going fan. I wouldn't mind finishing 6th again, but it's a bit sad that will be as good as it ever gets, while prices increase disproportionately to the quality of football on display. We're on the treadmill, so we have to keep going otherwise, as you say, we will likely be relegated and the same goes for a number of clubs outside of those capable of competing. Pity we have to pay so much for it and be inconvenienced as part of the bargain too. Edited October 11, 2014 by Ads 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I manage to get to VP once or twice a season, am I a tourist Ads?I lot of people seem to have a hard time reading my posts and appear intent on deliberately misinterpreting them, despite the content explicitly stating something to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) I say we completely demolish the stands and just replace them with 4 muddy hills. **** modern football I want pre-historic football.I wonder whether we will see anything quite as wonderful as this example of pre-historic football at Goodison next week? I have my doubts. This idea, and it's fed by "best league in the world" mantra, that the quality of football has some how exponentially increased is nonsense. [i am posting from a mobile, so the embedding of Tony Morley may not work. If a friendly Mod could work the voodoo necessary to embed it, then that would be great] Edited October 12, 2014 by limpid fixed embed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 11, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2014 Ads your post is just another rant at how you hate modern football. Again, nobody is disagreeing with you. You're preaching to the choir. Stop wasting your own energy typing big long posts about how bad football is right now. The only difference in our views is I think we have to accept that and try to adapt or continue to decline. I wasn't suggesting you were happy to see Villa fall down the leagues, I was just saying that's what would happen if the club refuse to adapt to the modern game the way you were suggesting. It's similar to a shop complaining about internet shopping and refusing to make a website, insisting that the old way of going down the highstreet and buying stuff is the best way. They may be right, but failing to adapt to the modern world means they go out of business. Nobody is disagreeing with you Ads regarding the state of modern football. You don't have anybody's mind to change. The disagreement is whether the club moves forward or sticks to the way things are "meant to be done". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I say we completely demolish the stands and just replace them with 4 muddy hills. **** modern football I want pre-historic football.I wonder whether we will see anything quite as wonderful as this example of pre-historic football at Goodison next week? I have my doubts. This idea, and it's fed by "best league in the world" mantra, that the quality of football has some how exponentially increased is nonsense. [i am posting from a mobile, so the embedding of Tony Morley may not work. If a friendly Mod could work the voodoo necessary to embed it, then that would be great] What's that video got to do with my post (which was a joke by the way)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I know you were being glib. "Pre-historic football" has an implied connotation. That Ormsmirk dinosaur could shoot couldn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I know you were being glib. "Pre-historic football" has an implied connotation. That Ormsmirk dinosaur could shoot couldn't he? Where did I say all players from the past were shit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 See above; you used pre-historic as a pejorative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 See above; you used pre-historic as a pejorative. It was a joke based on your contempt for modern football - I was pointing out that there are positive aspects to it as well, such as fine stadiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 If you read my posts (is there an echo in here?) I acknowledge that many things have improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I think if you were a supporter of Blackpool or Bristol Rovers or Plymouth, etc. back in 1950, you might have had a whinge at the big clubs with all their money to spend on better players...the more things change, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 The top sides have always spent the most, the gap between the haves and the have nots now though is huge and it widens every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) Well I wouldn't say no to a square made up of TGI Fridays, Nandos, Miller and Carter, Buba Gumps, Wagamama, Après, All Bar One, Casinos etc, Ze German market rolls into town 4 weeks on Friday, let's have our very own similar to what was in Hamburg a few years ago. Edited October 12, 2014 by Kingman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 The top sides have always spent the most, the gap between the haves and the have nots now though is huge and it widens every season. Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody, is arguing against that point. What they are suggesting is that we try to close that gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) It's always difficult to give a full rounded definition of why we are where we are because it covers a multitude of factors. the FFP does appear to be the fuel that fans the flames....whether it was a cock eyed attempt at a solution is anyone's guess, but before it ,the transfer window was another cock eyed attempt to keep the elite...elite. It's like being at card game and £300 quid up and say I'm going now....I would guess most of the card players would want a chance to win their money back.. Those that had all their players in place were well protected. The other point about the gates.....it takes some years for the penny to drop. Fans that gave been season ticket holders for season after season have questioned the sanity of it all when we have had c 10 years of a poor/ modest home record. Home is where the revenue is generated and IMO is the bedrock of the teams displays, it gives you the consistency to build away performances and ultimately your reputation. Winning away is a wonderful experience and it gives you that little bit that winning at home doesn't....but it isn't the solidarity that winning at home gives you. During the 6-6-6 seasons we still didn't win that many games at home and the style of football split the fan base. I personally dumped my season ticket in the last season because I was not convinced on the football I was watching at home....I am only a humble fan and despite my 40 plus years as a fan I had no other way of showing my feelings....I was moaning about the spectacle too often, despite the scattering of wins that was increasingly more confined to away fixtures....I had to go. It wasn't what I was brought up on to understand as progressive football. This has been with us for some time now......yes I did come back for a spell, but now find myself back there again watching on telly, because I don' t believe in the style of football we adopt.....there are many more like me that not only want to win at home but want to win with a bit of swagger and control and turn it in to believable football. Edited October 15, 2014 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 to crystallise the issue of increased commercial activity, my frustration with this is that it won't have the serious impact on our ability to compete. I say this because it is the investment that comes from owners in the first instance that makes the difference in reaching the holy grail of Misnomer League football, not the gate revenue or the number of supporters coming in the door, which flows as a consequence of the success attained. Exactly. It's a nice to have, sure, but it would do nothing to our ability to compete. It might pull in enough revenue to cover Matthew Lowton's wages for the season, but it isn't going to provide the required funds to pay top wages to top players. It's a start, but where do you go from there? Man United probably earn more from their tie-in with an Asian snack food company. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when people did the maths on adding £50 to season tickets, it was evident that it didn't amount to much in today's game, so attracting another 5,000-10,000 fans (if that) by offering a family fun park would bring in very little. We won't die as a club just because we didn't offer kids a chance to meet Hercules the Lion in his den and have their face painted; just like we won't have any chance of breaking the top four by offering such stuff either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 My point was the game is changing and you either try to change with it, or you stick to the way you've always done things and get left behind. We've already been left behind to a certain extent, and if we don't try new things to keep up with everyone else that gap will get bigger, and we'll fall further. Is this outside the ground experience thing the answer? No, probably not. But the attitude shown in your posts above is exactly the attitude that will see us slipping further down the leagues. I wish the game wasn't changing. I wish it was the same as it was 20/30 years ago. But it's not. You either evolve with it and stay amongst the big boys or you slip away. Yeah we tried to evolve by Doug selling up to a billionaire. We were fed up of coming between 6th and 16th and not filling out Villa Park every other week. Oh.... This is am incredibly weak comeback. If anything it backs up what I was saying. We sold the club and we're still standing still. Its not enough. With FFP the only way a club like us has any sort of chance is by raising revenue. Your (and ads) attitude seems to be "it probably won't work so why bother trying?" Maybe you're right, it won't work. But I'd rather see the club doing things to try and raise revenue rather than sitting back and waiting to be relegated. Well yes I was being flippant and the new guy Fox is talking up the commercial aspects but I just feel 2006-2010 was Villa's last chance to bridge the gap and for a variety of reasons we blew it. The board spent a lot of money and did seriously look at expanding Villa Park but we never filled the ground out. We are further away from the top teams and the rest of the pack have closed in on at Villa. We will average crowds at lot closer to Leicester this year than Chelsea for example. I just doubt any new owner will be willing to chuck the money Lerner has down at Villa. If we are sold we will be run as a mid table club as that is what we are now sadly. We are the Co-Op Shops of Football. A proud past but rapidly being overtaken by the big boys and now even the cheap Geman Supermarkets. Nowhere to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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