Why Paul Lambert should get the sack

[VillaCas]

 

 

 

 

 

So let me get this straight if I may.

You have now gone from quoting our improvement in points total at the same stage last season (and I can understand why) to now quoting statistics which apparently excuse our performances under Lambert because we pay low wages. In answering your point I asked you what wages were Gabby, Vlaar, Delph, Weimann, Benteke and Guzan on. You ignored the question.

I then asked you if there is a correlation in performance to wages why is Bent on more wages than Benteke ANSWERED and then quoted you QPR last season who had a high wage outlay yet were relegated. ANSWERED Reading your above post you have yet again failed to reply in context preferring to use sarcasm concerning both Bent and Redknapp. One would have hoped you would have stopped doing that after Berbatov and Adam PREVIOUSLY ANSWERED made you choke on your own opinion of them but obviously ignorance is bliss. LOL

Unless you have the financial clout of the top four, in our mini league there really is no correlation in wages to performance PROOF??? it just comes down to how well you are organised and coached and it is no surprise at all that your very own poster boy according to HH is finally seeing the error of his ways and looking to purchase more experienced players, em, who apparently are not going to be asking the earth in wages. Strange you can actually do that VillaCas isn't it.

Finally just before you go off on another one of your disappearing acts here is a much more relevant stat for you. We'll three actually.

Under your very own poster boy this season we have won two home games in ten with the lowest goals scored in all four divisions. We've won eleven games out of the last forty eight and we're just through an easier set of fixtures.

I note since results are the most important stats of all you have yet to show a result stat table I have absolutely no idea what a result stat table is?? concerning Lambert. I wonder why that is?

 

This is not meant as an insult (truly) but you really don't understand the argument do you?

 

I really can't be bothered to go explain it to you, again

You've no idea what a result table is yet you can post graphs concerning wage to point ratio?

 

Ok i'll make it easy for you then.

 

There must be some kind of graph, table, that can show our results since Lambert became our manager. I mean that would show beyond a shadow of a doubt how successful or how poor Lambert's performance has been. Trying to pull obscure stats out of your arse to prove that Lambert has somehow actually  overachieved with us even though everything else would suggest that he has been a complete disaster just won't cut it with the majority here!

 

No, I've no idea what a "result stat table" is and by the sound of things neither do you

 

Let's follow your plan of appointing a new manager every 12 months or so. Pulis seems flavour of the month or maybe Hughes? or perhaps Pulis first and then Hughes 12 months later

I'll ask you again.

If you are able to produce an obscure graph showing wages to point ratio then show me any graph, pie chart or otherwise depicting Lambert's record of results with us.

I'd also be very interested in you showing me where on site I have advocated a plan 'of appointing a new manager every 12 months?'

Still waiting on an answer to this VillaCas?

 

 

Lambert was bought in to slash the wage bill whilst remaining in the PL - your suggestion for an ideal signing : Dimitar Berbatov at 80k a week!!!!

 

Your suggestion for the ideal manager to oversee and massive cost-cutting exercise : Harry Redknapp!!!

 

You complained that Lambert wasn't signing the best players at £1m-£2m - your suggestion : (hilariously) Why doesn't he find a few players like say Roy Keane ("just one example")!!!!!

 

You began your campaign against Lambert within weeks of him starting. How long will you give the next manager, and the next and the next

 

Your first instinct with any signing is to slag them off : Example - "Benteke, the next Baloban"

 

The latest flavour of the month suggestion is laughably Steve Bruce (who incidentally would be crackers to leave Hull) a suggestion which you "like" !!!!!!!

 

We need to get off the merry-go-round and give someone a chance to build something - Lambert wasn't my first choice but he's here and so I'm backing him whilst he sorts out one of the toughest jobs in football

 

Your negative about every aspect, you only look for the bad in everything - I'd hate to view the world in those terms

 

PS Produce your own chart

 

 

 

[R.I.C.O.]

I hate this idea that everything will come good just due to stability. Stability works with a half-decent manager in place, which Lambert is not.

 

Abso-bloody-lutely.

 

It seems to me a number of posters on here have given Lambert yet another chance after some reassuring words from his mate in the other thread. It will be interesting to see what people think after the next 5 games, as its pretty likely we will lose them all.

 

P.S. Lambert is no Fergie. There are a few other scottish managers he could be compared to though....

Edited December 31, 2013 by R.I.C.O.

[Shaw_nuff]

Well, he'd better sort it soon or we're down. I'd take 17th right now. From four games in we were starting to get spanked in performance but luck with results was with us.... the our luck ran out and we're now getting spanked on both fronts. 

 

I don't expect us to outpass the best teams but i do expect players being paid professional money to be able to pass to a team mate.

 

25% possession at home will kill us - Vlar for one is made of balsa wood and will break down again if he keeps getting turned constantly.

 

Survive this season and PL gets until next Xmas for me to show this 'vision'. 

[GENTLEMAN]

No it isn't.  Manchester United had finished 2nd in the league by then.

 

So Alex Ferguson is not a good example of stability and longevity? Please take into consideration that this banner was produced after two seasons of finishing in mediocre positions and the mood of supporters were at a low, any similarities? There is article on the guy who produced that banner, it is a decent read if you have some time.

And I can give you many, many more examples of the folly of sticking with a crap manager like Lambert.

 

Please do, I would love to have another opinion to consider on this subject of longevity. Interestingly you use the same wording on that United banner regarding our manager.

[BOF]

If Lambert's hands have been tied by Lerner's funding to date and he is now saying he wants to add some experience to the side in order to steady the recent wobble in the youngsters' confidence, shouldn't we at least give him January to see what he can do with the squad? By all accounts we're going to sign a #10, a 'name' and if possible a defensive player. Sounds good to me and let's face it, it's not like a new manager would be given oodles of cash in January to start from scratch. Arguably 3 of our best players (Vlaar, Benteke, Okore (he's the arguable one)) are injured at present and we were more than fine until Vlaar's injury. If we make some canny signings in January we'll be fine again. Odds are with Vlaar and Benteke back we'll be fine anyway. IMHO it'd be madness and stupidly but typically short-sighted to start over again.

[Morpheus]

I believe Lambert was right to freeze out the overpaid, underperformers (I also believe that this was part of the agreement with Lerner when he took the job)I believe that the £40m figure that is constantly trotted out is a red herring - in the same period we have lost players that cost double that to recruit

Just want to reply to the two points in bold as we've debated everything else.

I am also in no doubt that removing under-performing players on high wages was in the remit but any manager would want to do that anyway irrespective of the budget. Where we differ is that he did not have to use the guillotine on the first team in the way that he did. I have seen no quote or anything substantiated to suggest differently. What I have seen however is a quote from the chief executive stating that Lambert had a budget and it was up to him how he spent it. That's right he got rid of some and kept some - he discarded/did not renew Heskey, Holman, Collins, Cuellar, Makoun, Warnock and Hutton. He kept Given, Ireland, Dunne, Bent, Bannan, Zog, Gabby, Andi, Delph, Clark, Baker. He would have kept Petrov too if that had been an option which sadly it was not. Given, Ireland, Dunne, Bent and Bannan have since been discarded as they didn't perform and/or didn't have the right attitude and/or we already had a better option. There is not one player discarded (with the obvious exception of Petrov) who I wish was still here

Concerning your second point I think Risso has quoted stats showing an expenditure of 40m plus. Unsurprisingly you've misunderstood, again. We've paid out around £40m in fees whislt losing players that cost us around £80m in fees - a net outgoing of talent of £40m

Simple question even for you to understand.

How much has Lambert spent since he's been our manager?

I've made it a little larger in case you missed it

Since you've now confirmed the amount spent and you've previously stated that Lambert got rid of the players already at the club because they didn't impress which out of the 16 players that Lambert has signed do you think have improved our team?

Benteke and who else?

Even though they collectively cost and earn a fraction of McLs team they delivered more points and a better finish......weird huh!

Which still doesn't answer my question.

Which out of the 16 Lambert signings have improved the team? Benteke and who else? Oh and we secured our Premiership status with just one game to go while in the process of breaking all the wrong records.

When you are trying to halve the wage bill it's unlikely that you will improve the squad. however, that is what Lambert has done - collectively his team of bargain buys got more points and a higher finish than McLs on half the cost and a quarter of the wages.

If you want specifics Benteke cost 33% of Bent but is 300% better, I would prefer Lowton, Vlaar, Okore and Luna who cost £9m to Hutton, Collins, Dunne and Warnock cost more than double four or five years ago (only one of which can find a place in a struggling premiership, the rest of them nowhere). etc etc

Do you really think Ireland is better value at £80k a week than Westwood at £10k a week? I'd take KEA over Makoun, hell I'd even take Tonev over Makoun and I'd take Kozak over Heskey

The majority of the McL squad are over-priced misfits - name one who has left Villa to go on to better things.

But if you don't think that individually they are better than what was here before, to what to atribute the fact that they finished higher and got more points than the squad that went before them.....must be better management

The main problem with your debate is that you are focusing on cost rather than performance and results. This is the last bastion of excuse left for you to defend Lambert with and it's no surprise to me or other posters that you've decided to use this after discarding 'the improvement' debate.

Managers are judged on results and although Lambert has been given a lot of leeway by the fans and the board due to the financial restraints within the club if performances don't improve the chairman will ultimately have to judge Lambert on those results rather than cost.

Lastly you will note that in the latest press release Lambert has categorically stated that there is no wage cap at the club which I have continually pointed out to you by asking what wages Benteke, Delph, Weimann, Gabby, Vlaar and Guzan are earning?

Not too many excuses left VillaCas.

Edit. Just for the record I haven't and won't call for Lambert's head this season until I see who he signs in January and how those players affect the team.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Morpheus

[OutByEaster?]

 

It will be interesting to see what people think after the next 5 games, as its pretty likely we will lose them all.

 

Pretty likely? 

 

You might want to take that opinion to the bookies.

[BOF]

I wasn't even gonna bother but yeah, football tends not to work like that. We mightn't do well but I'd be amazed if we lost all of our next 5 no matter how likely it looks on paper.

[R.I.C.O.]

I was hypothesising. I don't want us to lose our next 5 games, then we'd be truly in the shit.

[RMB]

You can't slash a wage bill in the exteme that Lamert has and be forced to make purchases from lower leagues and expect us to improve dramatically straight away. It's an achievement in itself that we are still close to top half. Done a good job so far for what he has been asked to do.

[drat01]

I wasn't even gonna bother but yeah, football tends not to work like that. We mightn't do well but I'd be amazed if we lost all of our next 5 no matter how likely it looks on paper.

Wed 1 15:00 A Sunderland PREM           Mon 13 20:00 H Arsenal PREM       Sat 18 17:30 A Liverpool PREM       Wed 29 19:45 H West Bromwich Albion PREM     February 2014   Sat 1 15:00 A Everton PREM

 

Looks a bit tough though Bri

[GENTLEMAN]

Did Ferguson buy league one players to maintain man utd dominance for twenty years?

No. But SAF did overhaul the United squad at the beginning of his reign and continued to build that club over a "long" period of time. It certainly was not easy going for his whole tenure. Time was needed and appreciated by somebody at that club.

 

I hate this idea that everything will come good just due to stability.

 

True. But the same can be said for sacking a manager and starting again. The best we get is a short term boost and then a return to anger during the bad spells. I feel, we need to bear with this difficult period and try to be supportive of the team. I know it may be seem crazy but better days lie ahead for the club.

 

 

Abso-bloody-lutely.

 

It seems to me a number of posters on here have given Lambert yet another chance after some reassuring words from his mate in the other thread. It will be interesting to see what people think after the next 5 games, as its pretty likely we will lose them all.

 

P.S. Lambert is no Fergie. There are a few other scottish managers he could be compared to though....

I am not saying Lambert is the next Ferguson but I support the idea of long term management at our club. David Moyes can also be used as an example of stability too. Both these managers endured a tough spell in the beginning at one stage or another.

Edited December 31, 2013 by GENTLEMAN

[PauloBarnesi]

If people want to sack Lambert then to me he has to be when he’s got his strongest side out and he still can’t get them to the acceptable point. I know football doesn’t always work that way, but it seems the fairest to me.

[OutByEaster?]

 

I wasn't even gonna bother but yeah, football tends not to work like that. We mightn't do well but I'd be amazed if we lost all of our next 5 no matter how likely it looks on paper.

Wed 1 15:00 A Sunderland PREM           Mon 13 20:00 H Arsenal PREM       Sat 18 17:30 A Liverpool PREM       Wed 29 19:45 H West Bromwich Albion PREM     February 2014   Sat 1 15:00 A Everton PREM

 

Looks a bit tough though Bri

 

 

Sheff Utd instead of Everton helps. I think we'll win two, draw one and lose 2.

[Electric Avenue]

Wonder what sort of tactics he'll employ tomorrow ?

[drat01]

Wonder what sort of tactics he'll employ tomorrow ?

There is a thread on Vt that we apparently will be told before anyone else .............

[Morpheus]

Still waiting on an answer to this VillaCas?

 

Lambert was bought in to slash the wage bill whilst remaining in the PL - your suggestion for an ideal signing : Dimitar Berbatov at 80k a week!!!!

 

Your suggestion for the ideal manager to oversee and massive cost-cutting exercise : Harry Redknapp!!!

 

You complained that Lambert wasn't signing the best players at £1m-£2m - your suggestion : (hilariously) Why doesn't he find a few players like say Roy Keane ("just one example")!!!!!

 

You began your campaign against Lambert within weeks of him starting. How long will you give the next manager, and the next and the next

 

Your first instinct with any signing is to slag them off : Example - "Benteke, the next Baloban"

 

The latest flavour of the month suggestion is laughably Steve Bruce (who incidentally would be crackers to leave Hull) a suggestion which you "like" !!!!!!!

 

We need to get off the merry-go-round and give someone a chance to build something - Lambert wasn't my first choice but he's here and so I'm backing him whilst he sorts out one of the toughest jobs in football

 

Your negative about every aspect, you only look for the bad in everything - I'd hate to view the world in those terms

 

PS Produce your own chart

 

Again not answering the question so I take it then you would rather not show us a graph depicting Lambert's worst stat of all. Ok I'll tell you then.

Under Lambert we have won 11 in 48 games only winning 2 out of 10 at home this season with the lowest ratio of goals scored at home this season in all four divisions. Until the game against Swansea we also failed to score in the first half at home this season but please continue to avail us of your graphs while the rest of us concern ourselves with more important stats like results.

One last thing. If you are going to try and quote my past history on site please do your research and get it right.

[AstonMartin82]

If Lambert's hands have been tied by Lerner's funding to date and he is now saying he wants to add some experience to the side in order to steady the recent wobble in the youngsters' confidence, shouldn't we at least give him January to see what he can do with the squad? By all accounts we're going to sign a #10, a 'name' and if possible a defensive player. Sounds good to me and let's face it, it's not like a new manager would be given oodles of cash in January to start from scratch. Arguably 3 of our best players (Vlaar, Benteke, Okore (he's the arguable one)) are injured at present and we were more than fine until Vlaar's injury. If we make some canny signings in January we'll be fine again. Odds are with Vlaar and Benteke back we'll be fine anyway. IMHO it'd be madness and stupidly but typically short-sighted to start over again.

 

This is far too sensible. Sacking the manager would be much more exciting for the next couple of weeks! Especially when we might be able to attract the likes of Steve Bruce.

[BOF]

This is far too sensible. Sacking the manager would be much more exciting for the next couple of weeks! Especially when we might be able to attract the likes of Steve Bruce.

Well Shteve McClaren works in the area now and has Derby into the automatic promotion places in the Chumpionship. I wonder would people be more inclined to allow that appointment this time around

Their record since he took over.

D W W D L W W W W W W W D W

They've gone from 14th to 2nd in 3 months.

[drat01]

 

If Lambert's hands have been tied by Lerner's funding to date and he is now saying he wants to add some experience to the side in order to steady the recent wobble in the youngsters' confidence, shouldn't we at least give him January to see what he can do with the squad? By all accounts we're going to sign a #10, a 'name' and if possible a defensive player. Sounds good to me and let's face it, it's not like a new manager would be given oodles of cash in January to start from scratch. Arguably 3 of our best players (Vlaar, Benteke, Okore (he's the arguable one)) are injured at present and we were more than fine until Vlaar's injury. If we make some canny signings in January we'll be fine again. Odds are with Vlaar and Benteke back we'll be fine anyway. IMHO it'd be madness and stupidly but typically short-sighted to start over again.

 

This is far too sensible. Sacking the manager would be much more exciting for the next couple of weeks! Especially when we might be able to attract the likes of Steve Bruce.

 

Steve Bruce you say? I wonder where you heard that from? Is this more ITK or is it .......................... shall we say, bollox?

 

Seriously though and ignoring your little witty post, now is exactly the time that changing managers would be a good idea. Why? because there is a window to change things in terms of players. And enough time to change fortunes around on the playing side of things.

 

Will we rid ourselves of the mumbling one? I suspect not. That aint the same as we should though