mikeyp102 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I don't get the argument that we have more points than last yr, or more from the corresponding fixtures last yr. Firstly, every team is different from last yr, be it new players or new managers. Secondly, we were appalling last yr, and thankfully we haven't been as bad, it would be worrying if we were. As for whether the counter attacking works, away from home against the top sides it does work and is very effective. However, other options are needed. At home especially, we need a different plan a and b, and just use counter attack when it's on. I think conceding possession so much like we did against spurs (what was it we had 31%?) invites pressure on and inevitably leads to more goals being conceded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I don't get the argument that we have more points than last yr, or more from the corresponding fixtures last yr. Firstly, every team is different from last yr, be it new players or new managers. Secondly, we were appalling last yr, and thankfully we haven't been as bad, it would be worrying if we were. As for whether the counter attacking works, away from home against the top sides it does work and is very effective. However, other options are needed. At home especially, we need a different plan a and b, and just use counter attack when it's on. I think conceding possession so much like we did against spurs (what was it we had 31%?) invites pressure on and inevitably leads to more goals being conceded. yes and the problem is the pressure will be on us when we do meet the teams around or below us. Big game next week because a defeat will put a dampener on our start to the season and put more pressure on games against lesser sides. We cant just let Everton have 65% possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 It always works.... but not for the entire 90 minutes.... every match. We have to be better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Yes we just have pockets of play. We give the ball away far too often. Hopefully that area of our game will improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Lets hope Lambert takes the reins off v Everton and lets this young team play at home with a bit of attacking verve and style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Not to mention that there was lots of impetus from the midfield offensively under MON. Whereas under Lambert the general plan is to just pass to one of the front three and hope they might produce something. Compare the players in both midfields... Ok you say compare the midfields presumably suggesting lambert has the weaker? Well again this is lamberts midfield, if it isnt good enough then its his own fault. C'mon really? Is the world flat? He hasn't had the money to bring in players of the quality of a Milner or Barry from a couple years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) Going back a couple pages to Michael Cox, he has to be one of the best at analyzing games. Always a pleasure to read what he writes. He also always makes interesting points, for instance in the napoli Roma game De Rossi should've been carded and a free kick given for his trickery to play it back to the keeper Edited October 21, 2013 by Rovers13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The football at home is dreadful. We need a massive overhaul of how we set up and play at home. Its a very odd feeling when you are happy to watch away games but when home games come around i turn off after about 50/60 mins due to sheer frustration and mainly boredom with the exception of the odd game here and there. The home form under Lambert is disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) It was blindingly obvious throughout the summer that we needed a creative midfielder to give us a different option at home, otherwise we would simply rely on counter-attacking football, which you can not do if you want to be a success in this league. I find it frustrating that we have had this problem for years yet no one seems to recognise it. Obviously I am smarter than the manager and deserve a shot at managing the club. My record on Football Manager is patchy unless you count the 'go on holiday and quit to main screen if the result isn't right' approach, in which case I was Fergie mkII. Edited October 21, 2013 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 It was blindingly obvious throughout the summer that we needed a creative midfielder to give us a different option at home, otherwise we would simply rely on counter-attacking football, which you can not do if you want to be a success in this league. I find it frustrating that we have had this problem for years yet no one seems to recognise it. Obviously I am smarter than the manager and deserve a shot at managing the club. My record on Football Manager is patchy unless you count the 'go on holiday and quit to main screen if the result isn't right' approach, in which case I was Fergie mkII. I recognize it mate. In my mind if all Villa had done for the past few transfer windows was buy midfielders I think we would be in a far better place. I think with Lambert it is a philosophy thing. I like to see teams built from the midfield, he likes to see them built from the front (McLeish liked to build from the back). Then again, he is a real football manager and I am a part time fan..... But still, for me midfield is where great teams start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 In response to the OP.... More points gained than the same point last year. Victories over Man City and Arsenal Something is going right. I personally couldn't give two shits if the football is dire.... I don't care if we spend 90 minutes hoofing the ball up to Benteke or Kozak.... in fact **** it...lets play a 6-0-4 formation and just hump the ball over the midfield to Benteke, Gabby, Weimann and Kozak. Its a results business... you get **** all for pretty football. In response to the OP.... More points gained than the same point last year. Victories over Man City and Arsenal Something is going right. I personally couldn't give two shits if the football is dire.... I don't care if we spend 90 minutes hoofing the ball up to Benteke or Kozak.... in fact **** it...lets play a 6-0-4 formation and just hump the ball over the midfield to Benteke, Gabby, Weimann and Kozak. Its a results business... you get **** all for pretty football. I guess if you was a boxing corner, your prompt would be something like " just go out and swing those **** fist as hard as you can in a circular movement, don't spend time thinking about body punches, just knock his **** head off.... world title contender hey!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 In response to the OP.... More points gained than the same point last year. Victories over Man City and Arsenal Something is going right. I personally couldn't give two shits if the football is dire.... I don't care if we spend 90 minutes hoofing the ball up to Benteke or Kozak.... in fact **** it...lets play a 6-0-4 formation and just hump the ball over the midfield to Benteke, Gabby, Weimann and Kozak. Its a results business... you get **** all for pretty football. In response to the OP.... More points gained than the same point last year. Victories over Man City and Arsenal Something is going right. I personally couldn't give two shits if the football is dire.... I don't care if we spend 90 minutes hoofing the ball up to Benteke or Kozak.... in fact **** it...lets play a 6-0-4 formation and just hump the ball over the midfield to Benteke, Gabby, Weimann and Kozak. Its a results business... you get **** all for pretty football. I guess if you was a boxing corner, your prompt would be something like " just go out and swing those **** fist as hard as you can in a circular movement, don't spend time thinking about body punches, just knock his **** head off.... world title contender hey!!! If it works..... and considering we are better than last season on almost every measure it clearly is. Why the hell not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I personally couldn't give two shits if the football is dire.... I don't care if we spend 90 minutes hoofing the ball up to Benteke or Kozak.... in fact **** it...lets play a 6-0-4 formation and just hump the ball over the midfield to Benteke, Gabby, Weimann and Kozak. I feel like the character in your profile pic after reading this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretonvilla Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 This counter attack policy is made to sound like some grand plan. ITS NOT ! With substandard creative midfielders theres no choice. When the mindset of the players is just get the ball to someone who can run fast ( gabby ) and get it to Benteke , we`re stuck in a rut . We did that when we were kids . Boring , retrogade, and unproductive. Plus, the defence is no where near strong enough to withstand the posession that virtually all teams enjoy against us , even the so called weaker teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Anyways, as the article by Michael Cox posted on page 3 of this thread argues quite interestingly, http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/20/tottenham-aston-villa-lambert-villas-boas-tactics the problem for us this season is that we are NOT playing a true counterattacking game at home, particularly against superior clubs, We are trying (usually successfully on the whole) to crowd them out in midfield and that means we are winning the ball higher up the pitch so we are not able to use the pace of Gabby and Andi on the counterattack. If we are going to play this way, we need forwards who can capitalise on shorter, more tactical passing from midfield (and midfielders who can make such passes, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max the Silent Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Counter attacking is an effective weapon when you have some of the attributes this Villa team has - namely the pace of Gabby and Andi Weimann, and the hold-up ability of Benteke. The problem is, especially at home, you need teams to come at you, and the only way to do that is to score the first goal. I don't believe we've opened the scoring in any of our home games so far. When we're forced to attack, we play surprisingly well - which is why we seem to play so much better after we change tactics at half time. Like many people here, I think PL needs to consider going at teams from the off when we're at home, then maybe counter attacking when we have something to defend. Saying that, I'm happy overall with the start to the season, given the fixture list we've had. It will be interesting to see where we are at Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 hahaha classic villatalk. A good start to the season prior to Spurs, a defeat later and it's time to rip up the team sheet and tactics and start all over again, effing hilarious. Give it a week and a win over everton and everyone will be back to buzzing their balls off again. I wish I had something better to do than read this drivel, sadly though I don't..... It really is a bunch of wild mood swings from game to game. Win and we're challenging for a Europe spot. Lose and we're the worst team in the league. Take a step back folks. It's a long season. I really never understand how people have the energy to post stuff like this. This is a thread about whether our counterattacking tactics are working at home (the background is that a team usually needs to pick up a decent slug of points at home or they will be struggling and we so far have 3 points form 12). People are making reasonable and quite interesting points in the discussion. Then we are bombed by posters slagging us and making accusations of wild mood swings and effing hilarious changes of opinion. Why not actually read the actual thread and the points being discussed. I would challenge you to identify any "wild mood swings" and you might actually find it quite absorbing. If you don't think this is an over-reaction to a defeat against a team who will be challenging for the title this year - something we can only dream of currently - then you and I live in different worlds. Yes we've struggled to pick up points at home but for christs sake, we've played Spurs, City, Liverpool and Newcastle.....why not wait until we've played Hull, Palace or Fulham at home before going off on one about this and that not working. It's called reason, something people lack around here big time, we all sulk after a defeat but to rant and rave about it is another thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 This does not meet the challenge of showing exactly where in this thread there are "wild mood swings" or "flying off the handle". This is an interesting discussion about what is probably THE central issue for Villa this season as they seek to improve their form and results. It is one that is being taken up by journalists in a thoughtful and intelligent way. Really don't see what the problem is and certainly throwing round meaningless slogans about mood swings etc. is just silly. Sorry Briny but is the thread not entitled 'Counter attack isn't working'? I didn't see this thread prior to the Spurs game and so it was written off the back of that one result, that's fickle and it's a mood swing in most peoples books, I'd imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted October 24, 2013 Author Share Posted October 24, 2013 I wrote the thread as I feel the tactics aren't working, at home at least. I understand we've had a difficult start and mixed results, but nonetheless I feel our performances could have been better and put that down to a lack of possession with our counter attacking style. I don't think it's knee jerk, and it's certainly not fickle as my views are reasonably consistent. Of course the discussion would not be taking place had we won and/or performed well in the last match. But that performance following on from a few others raises the question. I feel it's a legitimate discussion point and a legitimate time to have it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Okay, fair enough but I disagree. I don't think it's a reasonable time to bring it up given the fixtures we've had, I can guarantee you that no-one inside the club would have been looking at this point in the season to evaluate where we're at so why should anyone outside of the club do so? As for it being fickle........., as you say "of course the discussion would not be taking place had we won and/or performed well" So let's say spurs don't score from an intended cross in the first half, benteke bops in one of the three opportunities he had after coming on and we go on to win but other than that the match and performance are exactly the same. Would this thread appear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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