terrytini

We're doing okay. After the season these players just had, 10 games with no win at the end, it isn't going to happen overnight, and we are at home to a side who shoul;d be buzzing having just come up. Some of our football has been pretty good, cutting edge is always hardest to find but it will come under an astute attacking manager. !st shot of second half even as I speak. Keep the Faith !

well, if there are no players that doesnt suit his play style, or the ones that do are out of our price range, then what? just buy random player for the fun of it? Im sure theres a underlying plan, which we dont know about. I personally think the spending will come either later this window or in the next, i rather see them buying smartly and spending money where its needed, rather than blowing it just to have a higher net spend than a previous owner. I don't believe that Lambert hasn't identified any players that he thinks could improve us. I think given the go ahead Lambert would have had better replacements signed by now.[/quote] Do you really ? I'm not so sure. I remember the stick MON got being exactly the same, people complaining we hadn't bought players, but there is so much more to it than identifying them and RL putting some money up. Any player we identify has a strong chance of having been spotted by others, or of their Agent alerting others, resulting in a poker type scenario for many. There are certain things that would make us attractive to some, but there are other things that don't, and make other Clubs, or a players current Club, more appealing. Without going into detail I'm sure if we thought about it there could many problems in getting players in. In my view that is one of the main reasons MON suddenly, that one summer, drastically overdid it with Warnock, Young, Beye, Dunne etc in terms of wages as the time was rolling on and that 'poker game' meant we were getting in danger of no-one. If we are in a 'chain' it affects it, wages affect it, the Midlands does too, as does our last two years perfromance. So I think it is only to be expected that in order to avoid over paying and/or bringing in poor second or third choices, we wait, and negotiate, and so on.

Lambert Out !

Unmade Silent Movie. That is unquestionably our proper song. Though I did suggest the opening to War Pigs too. :oink:

Agree with all this but surely what we have done with transfers so far isn't what you expected when you were so optimistic a couple of weeks back ? :winkold: I think we are better than some think, after all we can't say it was Mcleish's fault we were poor and then say it is the squad ? The players aren't bad, we have two for each position - but a scoring midfielder/winger and a defensive one would be a minimum still needed I would say. Still hopeful even as we are of Top 10, there are a lot of Clubs wit httroubles of their own, and I am sure PL's approach, motivation, and tactics will win nearly half the games.

It is a mistake to read too much into the formations used pre-season. PL is very adaptable and we will vary it. My guess is he thinks the newer approaches, especially the 4321, needs more work than a 442 or the 550 of Mcleish, as the players can do the latter two with their eyes shut. Fear not ! And as for the need for good fullbacks, I think that is exactly what he is sorting.

I feel as good as I need to feel going into the season, whereas last year I felt as bad as it was possible to feel. We will play good football, (as we have all pre-season for starters) so I can enjoy watching us and not feel embarrassed. We will use the squad well, and use tactics well, and have players as well motivated as any. As far as how we will do, I see us winning 10 games at home and 6 or so away, with 10 draws, getting up around 55-60 points. I wont be too bothered if it is a bit less, but I think we will go out to win games and do so with enough frequency to enjoy the season. I also think we have a great chance to do well in a cup with a little luck. Unlike a few others, I think Zog is showing some form, and have less fears about the defence. Watching the Forest game - which seems to have dissappointed a few fans - I actually thought we played some terrific (albeit half pace friendly style) stuff in parts. It was clear there was an energy gap between the 2 sides second half, and still a fair bit of novelty to some of the players and combinations. I'm also quite certain PL knows where we need to build and has been told he can. No thanks to a 'marquee' signing though - ugly phrase and pointless.

Always seemed brave and 100 % committed, so I wish him well, and am sure he will do well. Think he was a pretty good defender, but nice to think we are moving in a slightly different direction now.

I think the Club could do worse than ask people what would make them go again. For me after years of being an STH and going to all Away games I currently can't afford it. I could go occassionally but would now want (now it is so hard to find the money) a decent Manager (tick) a refreshed Team (looks like it will be a tick)., attacking football (another probable tick) and to be able to stand, or at least stand at my seat, with others who will sing rather than chat, drink, or moan ! When I talk to mates they all seem to have the same wishes - the last one in particular.

I remember stuff like this being said by many a couple of seasons into MON's reign - I particularly remember it being said about West Ham last time around. They nearly went bust. Whilst I do think RL needs to invest properly unlike the last couple of years I dont think it matters what other Clubs are doing - we have no idea how these things are funded, loans etc, and in my vie wshould only consider our own position. As for what we have spent, the window is a long way from over, and actually a lot of Clubs haven't done a lot, so too early to criticise Rl in my view, and I still trust those who 'heard' PL would be backed. maybe Caroll just doesn't fit PL's plans or vice versa ?

Happy with Fletcher, anyone who can score in that shower of shite must be ok. Not worried at 10 million, goals are priceless. As with everything else I am happy to trust in PL but definitely a reasonable buy I think. Also think he would complement Bent very well actually

Whilst I share some of the sceptisism of Briny there are a couple of factors which weigh against it. Richard has been such a critic and is onboard with what is happening, so he is either being misled, or is a fool, or has gone soft - or there is real evidence that RL has learnt. PL would have known our past - and probably what happened to MON over money - and would surely have got assurances on this score. I just can't think RL would stick to a sell to buy , I think it is more an overall picture of Revenue and Wages.

Richards welcome is good enough for me, so hello Villaaarrrd the Impaler. Another good signing, I am enjoying this. It makes perfect sense for the Club to muddy the waters as much as possible, for example giving the impression that we must ship 'One Out to get One In' is much better than letting it be known we have lots of spare cash.

That was a good read and I must concur with most of it. I think it shows how, with an astute Manager, we are well equipped to try different styles of play at different times. As PL is known for this it is another reason to feel exciteed and positive about the new season. Probably the only point I would differ on is up front, Delfunso is not going to cut it and we can't be sure about Weimann. Although I think PL will get goals from elsewhere in the Team we need more than just Bent and a - hopefully rejuvenated - Gabby. Who ? Don't know, but not Owen !!

Quite happy to trust PL over the opinions of a few FM types online!! Obsession with pace is pointless, much more to defending - and being a good player - than that, as I would have thought most fans would know. As for the endless 'I would prefer so and so' - how meaningless is that ? PL knows our budget, knows who may come and who may not, and would be more than aware of possible and impossible alternatives.

Very optimistic that football will be fun again. The most important ingredient for doing well is the Manager and I think PL is just right for us. Tactically astute, a great motivator, full of energy and ambition, and a touch of a head case. I am convinced he is worth a dozen more points than Mcleish without any new signings, and more than that with some - and I couldn't care less whether they are 'marquee' (ugly word) signings. I don't go for the 'transition' idea - and neither will he - we've had that excuse 2 years running, winners don't think that way. And I totally agree we have lost a fair few players since we pushed for top 4 but only 2 who were hard to replace, and I see no reason why well coached motivated players under this Manager can't get Top 10 as a minimum, and with some , luck Top 6 - 8. I dont think we have anything to be scared of again now. Most importantly I know it will be fun again.

It may take more than 44 points next season terrytini and that along with playing decent football and going for wins would be a bonus after what we had last season. Yes, but it is not him or the new manager that is saying it. :winkold: In all the history of the Prem it has only required more than 44 Points once. I am all for not getting carried away, but surely you want/think he can do better than 6 points better than the last guy ??

That's just being silly. You don't, I don't and we don't know what will happen. So you are certain that he will not make big money buys (as one example) and yet you are not being prescriptive about how he achieves things? You are setting down a path which you are certain he will travel. Of course it was in no small part due to the manager; it was also in no small part due to the the team and its constituents. We were what we were last season (i.e. worryingly close to the relegation spots - which we were also worryingly close to the previous season save for the last couple of games) and we need to start from that position rather than the presumption that the replacement of the manager (with an improvement) means we are now automatically a mid table club. It's a good job I don't find myself in that position then. As implied in my previous post, I expect him to put the club back on its feet. As implied in the post before that, we can reappraise expectations thereafter. :? Duh ? I mistakenly thought I was having a sensible debate - are you deliberately being obtuse ? I totally agree we can't KNOW that's why I said it ???? Yes I am as certain as I can be - without as I am trying to make clear being able to see the future - that he will not go for big money buys as a means to improve us. I just beleive that, in my view he will be aware we cannot compete that way and will get more for less by making better use of what we have, using his knowledge of the lower divisions, and looking abroad. I am not being prescriptive FFS I am expressing my view that he will not be blowing a load of money on big names . So you think it was the team and the Manager - obviously it is bothto some extent. How many points do you think PL will get that Mc would not have got ? I happen to think that my dead cat could get more victories than Mcleish, and I have sufficient faith in PL to think he will do better than my dead cat, i think he will get a minimum of 6 more wins, and maybe a fair few more. I don't think he could get much less and be considered to have put the Club on its feet - much less and we'd be no better. Lets just say I have a good deal more faith in him as a Manager, and a belief that it will be the abilities of the Manager to get the best from Players. I don't agree with those in the media or anywhere else that say our squad is as poor as it looked last year.

Anything more than 44 points a bonus ? I find that an incredibly low estimation of what the new Manager is likey to acheive. It is one thing we don't want to overcook it but if Mcleish had stayed and said that he would have been run out of the Midlands !!

Just to flesh it out a bit, my 'minimum 6 more wins' means we would win at least 13 games. As many as the Baggies did last year. We'd be up as a minimum around 50 Points. Are those who are saying we may not get top half saying PL will only manage 4 more wins than Mcleish ?

Odd already people thought Mcleish was atrocious and all seem to think PL is good stuff, yet expectations are so low ? If so much of our position last year was down to Mcleish - as I think it was - and PL is so good - as I think he is - then as a minimum we must expect a marked improvement, that is only logical surely ? Or are we now agreeing with the pundits who said it wasn't Mcleishes fault !! Please no !!! In my view the gap between PL and Mcleish alone is worth 6 draws turned into wins, so we would be 12 points better off. In actual fact I see no reason why, with his superb motivational skills, tactical awareness, and positive approach, we can't do better than that. So I will say I expect we will get in the top half and with the necessary luck have a good Cup run. It wouldn't suprise me at all if we are in the pack chasing a Top 6 finish, although that may be tempered a little by what he buys.

Well, you actually said, 'he will get us pushing top 6 and above'. The implication was not just aiming high but firmly putting us there (and aiming higher), surely? Again, you are back to 'thinking' when you were saying we will be doing x and he will be doing it by methods a, b and c. I hope none of us will but we are a club that came very close to relegation and a club that needs to get back on its feet and more. The more may happen quickly but it should be something we are hoping for rather than expecting. ok (at least we are debating the guy and not having a guess who is coming to the conference contest)- to be clear as I can be - as far as it is possible to 'know' something' that hasn't happened yet I am sure he WILL get us pushing Top 6 this year - but pushing Top 6 does not mean I expect him to get it, or not, or that I will be on his back if he doesn't. I do believe he has at least 6 more wins in him than the last guy, which, even if that is only draws into wins is 12 points better which will indeed mean we are pushing at Top 6. And I am certain the methods will be as I have said, as opposed to defensive tactics or big money buys. And yes we came close to relegation but I think/thought we were pretty universally agreed that was in no small part due to having a crap Manager. I think placing unreasonable expectaions on him is a mistake, as you do, but I think having almost none is a mistake also, and one we don't need to consider, having got ourselves a gem.

I think that saying that he will do it and, what's more, he'll do in a specifically prescribed way is, I'm afraid. It doesn't give him much leeway and should he not preform to your exact specifications then you might start to judge him as failing because you have built up a picture of what exactly is going to happen. Will, can and push are suggesting whole heaps of different things. As per someone else's post on the previous page, as long as Lambert sends us out to try and play football and try to win (and gets the team doing that a fair amount) then that's a good enough start. Hmmm - where are we disagreeing ? I totally agree to say WILL is silly, but I have said 'will push'. If we don't think he can at least 'push' for Top 6, what is all the fuss about ?!! I don't think it is unrealisitic at all. To be pushing for the Top 6 is a perfectly reasonable aspiration (see Newcastle this year for example, with a Manager I do not regard as highly as PL). It gives him plenty of leeway - surely if we all agree Mcleish was so poor we think PL can (not 'will') have a chance of finding an extra 6 wins or so ? As for a 'prescribed way' - what do you mean ? I am simply confident that he won't trty and buy his way anywhere, that he will play generally attacking football, that he is good tactically, and that he will get the best out of players....what is 'prescribed ' about that ? You make it sound like I am setting him up for a fall, when it is simply the case that I have watched his sides a lot and think we will do well, in the manner I have said. I don't think I will be disappointed at all, but going back to the original context I was posting in, I think those wanting 'marquee' (ugh) signings will be, and rightly so in my view.

Yeah, I agree. It was truly horrible watching us this season. I used to travel up to VP knowing full well I'd only see us score two goals at best. Another interesting stat: Mc teams only scored more than one goal in 10 out of his last 151 games. Shocking. Truly shockingt!!! Mcleish Out !! Ah those were the days.......

Steady on. I wonder whether we ought be a little cautious about how high we set the bar for the new manager - at least until he's been in the job for a bit, shown what he is going to do here and how he is going to do it. I don't think 'pushing 6th and above' is over the top, and I do think he will do it with tactical awareness, motivational ability, clever (not 'marquee') buying, and getting the best out of what is here. I have seen enough of him these last few years to convince me he can do that, and if you add in Richards optimism about spending, I think we will push 6th this year, and push for more after that. (note, push, not necessarily get )