Did we get rid of the wrong lot?

[Pelle]

Not an argument, we didn't need them because the owner was going to spend, spend, spend to get us Champions League in 5 years - and what happened to that?

 

We spent, spent, spent, but too many times we bought the wrong players that couldn't take us there. And then Lerner realised that spending like that were not sustainable and is trying to correct things. I'm not saying that he's doing it the right way, but you can't blame him for not trying in the first years.

[Morpheus]

The following would walk into our squad now :

Cuellar

Davies

Maloney

Routledge

What does this have to do with anything ? LOL...

CI's point is valid in that those players are better than what we have now.

[CI]

I'd add Ridgwell to the list too in the sense I'd prefer him at full back to Bennett and I'd argue he's better than Clark and Vlaar at CB

[Zatman]

 

 

Gary Cahill was the most stupid error. Cost the club millions that.

Especially when you look at the money spent on centre halves such as Collins, Knight, Cuellar and Dunne that were no better than him.

They were all inferior and we paid tens of millions for them. O'Neill was just a reckless spender.

Presumably you're not arguing that Cahill could have done the work of all four of them, so we would have needed to buy at least three even if he had stayed.

 

At the start of the period we are talking about, he was a raw and rather unreliable talent while the names mentioned above were all experienced. There is no way that Cahill could have stepped into a back four of a side where the owner had asked to get a top 4 place within 4 seasons. He went to Bolton where he was pretty crap for a couple of seasons but it didn't matter to them because he was better than anyone else they had.

 

The fact that he is playing for Chelsea now doesn't mean that he could have found a regular slot in our side of 07/08.

 

EDIT

 

BTW, the claim that selling him "cost us millions" overlooks the fact that we got £5m for him - a very good price at the time -  and Bolton sold him on for £7m so these missing "millions" have yet to emerge in the real world.

 

he only cost 7 million as was in last 6 months of his contract. was a terrible decision to sell him without giving him a chance

[Zatman]

 

The following would walk into our squad now :

Cuellar

Davies

Maloney

Routledge

What does this have to do with anything ? LOL...

CI's point is valid in that those players are better than what we have now.

 

Cuellar has been woeful this season. how bad our defence is doesnt make Cuellar better player

[CI]

From the moment Cahill scored that bicycle kick beauty v the scum we should have been building a team around him and offering him a 5 year deal. Woeful mistake by MON.

[mikeyp102]

The following would walk into our squad now :

Cuellar

Davies

Maloney

Routledge

What does this have to do with anything ? LOL...

CI's point is valid in that those players are better than what we have now.

I thought the thread was about releasing the wrong players who came through the academy, which none of the above did.

[CI]

To be fair I'd already agreed with the OP that we have. I added the other names as the problem is further exacerbated by players we signed and then sold who are all better than the players we have now.

[AndyBM]

cahill and ridgewell would be a valued centre back pairing right now for us, even ridgewell would be a better partner to vlaar at the moment

[KHV]

Cahill is vastly over rated. He is very error prone

[Zatman]

Cahill is vastly over rated. He is very error prone

 

yet he would still walk into any of our defence in last 5-8 years

[TRO]

Stats will tell you so much....like look at our home record in the same era you pontificate about.

 

The more time that passes has nothing to do with our discussion.

 

It is my opinion that where we are now manifested itself from O'Neill.

 

O'Neill had 4 years and spent a bucket load of money, in the main his signings were workmanlike and debatable technical skills with the odd exception. He did manage some credible results but failed to show any kind on quality on the ball or had any kind of ability to keep control of a game in short it was smash and grab football. (The 6-6-6 was a fact but when analysed was not exactly believeable there were periods on inconsistency it was a bit peaky and troughy)Hence the better away record than at home....Fortress Villa was a distant memory...without joining in the stats i think we managed about 50% wins.

 

The managers that took over, took over from a team that just managed to lose to Chelsea away 7-0 and Newcastle 6.. I think managed by Kevin Mcdonald who would have been privvy to Mon's methods.... in short we was on the decline after all that time and money. Martin O'Neill had only just left in stark contrast to Saunders leaving and leaving a legacy sustainable by his statement of " this team will carry on for 12 months after i have gone" that was the confidence he had in the sustainable model he had built.

 

The managers that have subsequently carried on from Martin O'Neill have faired worse without doubt.... albeit that have had c 12 months each. good job I hear you say, but that all they have had ( fact)... don't ever remember many managers been brought to account on the back of 12 months, but hey thats just opinions.

 

I have always felt and always will that whilst Martin O'Neill did have an effect on Aston Villa ..did create a modicum of impact....did put some pride back....did get something from the players on a game to game basis. There were as many flaws as there was good things, in other words he was good in parts.

 

Martin O'Neill has a managerial record that far outweighs Brian Little for instance but I much preferrred Aston Villa under Brian Little. I much preferred Aston Villa Under Ron Saunders, but his tenure went sour Like O'Neills, I think John Gregory did as good a job as O'Neill, but his managerial stature would not be mentioned in the same breath....Martin O'Neill has a great ability to present himself as better than he really is, he has a articulate/arrogant mannner than dismisses questioning or criticism and deflects to any kind of difference of opinion....The other managers were more likely to trade punches in that respect particularly Graham Taylor and Brian Little... They would listen to your points.

 

Make doubly sure what I am saying.....I am not saying that Martin Oneill is wholly and soley responsible for what we have right now, that would be inaccurate.what I am saying is that what we have today was showing signs under his watch ( particularly the inability to keep the ball under control with comfort)and in my opinion, we have gradually got worse.

PS ...many players that O'Neill bought for good bucks, could't trap a bag of cement or pass wind.

[TRO]

Not an argument, we didn't need them because the owner was going to spend, spend, spend to get us Champions League in 5 years - and what happened to that?

 

We spent, spent, spent, but too many times we bought the wrong players that couldn't take us there. And then Lerner realised that spending like that were not sustainable and is trying to correct things. I'm not saying that he's doing it the right way, but you can't blame him for not trying in the first years.

Absolutely spot on.

[briny_ear]

 

The managers that took over, took over from a team that just managed to lose to Chelsea away 7-0 and Newcastle 6.. I think managed by Kevin Mcdonald who would have been privvy to Mon's methods.... in short we was on the decline after all that time and money. 

AW, c'mon, TRO, surely you can do better than that?

 

Blaming your least favourite manager of all time for the 0-6 against Newcastle, which happened after he had left the club, is quite creative, but there must be a way to finger him for this season's 0-8 against Chelsea as well? 

[Big_John_10]

If we'd appointed the right manager after MoN, no one would be complaining right now and I doubt we'd be in a relegation battle.

To keep blaming MoN is ridiculous. It's been nearly 3 years since he left, plenty of time to sort ourselves out. Unfortunately our owner chose two awful managerial decisions and continued with the pissing money up the wall approach. Which does seem a surprise when so many will tell you that our spending was all down to MON.

[Big_John_10]

And the Cahill thing is just boring now.

Cahill wasn't good enough to play week in week out for a team challenging the top 4, Cahill wanted first team experience so he left. Where did he go? How long was he at Bolton for? That speaks volumes for the player he was when he left.

[MagicMushroom]

From the moment Cahill scored that bicycle kick beauty v the scum we should have been building a team around him and offering him a 5 year deal. Woeful mistake by MON.

 

 

 

 

Hindsight is great, but even if he had done that, we would probably be in the same boat. You have to have an owner whom actually cares, and not one that gives up after finding things more difficult than what he imagined. We would of sold Cahill by now and be in the same mess.

 

Besides, all managers make the same mistake of shipping someone out to early.

[Pelle]

 

The managers that took over, took over from a team that just managed to lose to Chelsea away 7-0 and Newcastle 6.. I think managed by Kevin Mcdonald who would have been privvy to Mon's methods.... in short we was on the decline after all that time and money. 

AW, c'mon, TRO, surely you can do better than that?

 

Blaming your least favourite manager of all time for the 0-6 against Newcastle, which happened after he had left the club, is quite creative, but there must be a way to finger him for this season's 0-8 against Chelsea as well? 

 

I think he was referring to the 7-1 loss against chelsea when MON actually was in charge. And for the 6-0 loss, well, the club was really in a turmoil at that time. Partly because of MON. It was always going to upset the squad and the rest when a manager leaves like that.

[briny_ear]

 

 

The managers that took over, took over from a team that just managed to lose to Chelsea away 7-0 and Newcastle 6.. I think managed by Kevin Mcdonald who would have been privvy to Mon's methods.... in short we was on the decline after all that time and money. 

AW, c'mon, TRO, surely you can do better than that?

 

Blaming your least favourite manager of all time for the 0-6 against Newcastle, which happened after he had left the club, is quite creative, but there must be a way to finger him for this season's 0-8 against Chelsea as well? 

 

I think he was referring to the 7-1 loss against chelsea when MON actually was in charge. And for the 6-0 loss, well, the club was really in a turmoil at that time. Partly because of MON. It was always going to upset the squad and the rest when a manager leaves like that.

See, you're not trying hard enough either. I'm sure MON can be blamed for many more events that happened after he left if we are inventive enough. 

[TRO]

Briny ... As much as you label me as the fan who has Martin O'neill as my least favourite manager, if you read what I am writing you will see that I could equally label you as rose coloured specs when dealing with O'Neill.

 

If you have ever read any of my earlier posts....I was ecstatic when O'Neill was appointed... and equally ecstatic when we had an owner who was intent in leaving the manager to get on with it in the same manner that MON's mentor Brian Clough was always claiming was required for Success. ( Brian was probably right....if the said manager can buy right/talent spot....IF)

 

Randy Lerner did exactly what we were all asking HDE to do leave the manager alone and not interfer..... what us fans ommitted to to understand is thats ok, providing the manager can trade effectively in the transfer market.

 

On the whole IMO MON couldn't.....and in some quarters RL is getting the blame for not interferring sooner.... "cake and eat it"

 

RL arguably **** up by believing in O'Neill .... MON **** up thinking he was Brian Clough.

 

we are now paying the price for that on top of the poor performance in the same area from subsequent managers.  To be fair they had less time to put it right 1 year v 4 years however I'M pretty sure they would'nt have.

 

If in fact you cannot see the merits of my arguement.... and by the way I'm not saying the subsequent managers are blameless. cast a look at Swansea...many tell me that Martinez was the originator of the model carried on by Rodgers and Laudrup, who am i to argue... except that I recognise the good job those subsequent managers did/are doing.

 

 

Ps I'm not expecting you to agree with me as you have your own opinion and it is clear to me, but please don't dismiss my arguemnt by saying my least favourite manager, because its like saying you didn't read my points or you don't understand/appreciate them so your default to a put down. Briny I'm not saying I'm right about everything, its my opinion but I have come across many Villa Fans off this site who share the view that Mon has a bearing on our current plight.

Edited March 2, 2013 by TRO