Did we get rid of the wrong lot?

[Big_John_10]

Well it's strange you chose to ignore them.

[briny_ear]

His teams are based around motivation. He makes the players he buys perform above their level. That's a good quality but when you're poor in the transfer market like he is and only go for mediocre overpriced British players it means the next few managers have got an almighty mess to clean up.

The manager who took over in the season following martin O'Neill had a squad containing Stewart Downing and Ashley Young, both of whom seem now to be doing OK with  better clubs. And yet he took us plummeting down into a relegation struggle, upset many of the players he needed to work for him, bought Makoun who proved a total waste of space (or should we say "espace", since he never bothered to learn any English) and had to spend more money than any Villa manager before him to buy a forward to get us out of the mess. I could describe what McLeish did the next season but it's too painful - let me just say "Hutton" 

 

Is that what constitutes cleaning up the "mess" left by MON?

[Zatman]

A big part of the Newcastle defeat was Andy Carroll bullying Clark. Don't see that as evidence of mon's defence cracking. And also how can you blame a manager who wasn't even there? Throughout the history of the prem there have been players who performed well under certain managers and not the same under others. It's not Mon's fault that houllier couldn't get decent performances from then.

The Chelsea game was a poor defensive show but how can you ignore the other 37 games and the overall defensive record. Ridiculous to pick a freak game at the end of the season to claim the cracks what showing.

Your other argument was ridiculous.

Might as well give no praise to lambert for signing Benteke because so? Just because he's good this season doesn't mean he'll be good next.

Using your logic in the summer we could have moaned at fergie for signing RVP, because so? Just because he was good the previous year doesn't mean he'll be good the next.

It's ridiculous.

 

you dont remember the Chelsea game at Wembley either. we were atrociously setup that Terry even lambasted MON in public with his post game interview

[Mantis]

His teams are based around motivation. He makes the players he buys perform above their level. That's a good quality but when you're poor in the transfer market like he is and only go for mediocre overpriced British players it means the next few managers have got an almighty mess to clean up.

The manager who took over in the season following martin O'Neill had a squad containing Stewart Downing and Ashley Young, both of whom seem now to be doing OK with  better clubs. And yet he took us plummeting down into a relegation struggle, upset many of the players he needed to work for him, bought Makoun who proved a total waste of space (or should we say "espace", since he never bothered to learn any English) and had to spend more money than any Villa manager before him to buy a forward to get us out of the mess. I could describe what McLeish did the next season but it's too painful - let me just say "Hutton" 

 

Is that what constitutes cleaning up the "mess" left by MON?

 

I never said Houllier and McLeish did a good job of cleaning up O'Neill's mess. McLeish especially added to it.

 

Well it's strange you chose to ignore them.

 

I didn't.

 

 

[TRO]

A big part of the Newcastle defeat was Andy Carroll bullying Clark. Don't see that as evidence of mon's defence cracking. And also how can you blame a manager who wasn't even there? Throughout the history of the prem there have been players who performed well under certain managers and not the same under others. It's not Mon's fault that houllier couldn't get decent performances from then.

The Chelsea game was a poor defensive show but how can you ignore the other 37 games and the overall defensive record. Ridiculous to pick a freak game at the end of the season to claim the cracks what showing.

Your other argument was ridiculous.

Might as well give no praise to lambert for signing Benteke because so? Just because he's good this season doesn't mean he'll be good next.

Using your logic in the summer we could have moaned at fergie for signing RVP, because so? Just because he was good the previous year doesn't mean he'll be good the next.

It's ridiculous.

You say how can you blame a manager that's not there...directly you can't... But indirectly you most certainly can. Managers spend years building a team, do you honestly believe al that work should dissipate the moment he waks out... If it does there was something most certainly wrong.

You need to think outside the circle.

Rons Saunders was largely credited with winning the European cup, but it wasn't his team was it....he wasn't,t there, was he.

You see Tony Barton was given a token of credit....in a similar way to RDM at Chelsea

Double standards do exist...we just need to spot them. But it seems to be the argument you are pedalling... You have to be there to be accountable( directly yes, indirectly no)....every business builder leaves a legacy.

You simply can't walk away after building a team for 4years and expect folk to totally blame the new guy....there has to be a cut off true.... But the new guy needs the funds the old guy had and in this case we know it was not possible but that's only fair.

There lies most of the problem

Of course we need to move on, but lambert will take a lot longer with no money.

[TRO]

A big part of the Newcastle defeat was Andy Carroll bullying Clark. Don't see that as evidence of mon's defence cracking. And also how can you blame a manager who wasn't even there? Throughout the history of the prem there have been players who performed well under certain managers and not the same under others. It's not Mon's fault that houllier couldn't get decent performances from then.

The Chelsea game was a poor defensive show but how can you ignore the other 37 games and the overall defensive record. Ridiculous to pick a freak game at the end of the season to claim the cracks what showing.

Your other argument was ridiculous.

Might as well give no praise to lambert for signing Benteke because so? Just because he's good this season doesn't mean he'll be good next.

Using your logic in the summer we could have moaned at fergie for signing RVP, because so? Just because he was good the previous year doesn't mean he'll be good the next.

It's ridiculous.

You say how can you blame a manager that's not there...directly you can't... But indirectly you most certainly can. Managers spend years building a team, do you honestly believe al that work should dissipate the moment he walks out... If it does there was something most certainly wrong.

You need to think outside the circle.

Rons Saunders was largely credited with winning the European cup, but it wasn't his team was it....he wasn't,t there, was he.

You see Tony Barton was given a token of credit....in a similar way to RDM at Chelsea

Double standards do exist...we just need to spot them. But it seems to be the argument you are pedalling... You have to be there to be accountable( directly yes, indirectly no)....every business builder leaves a legacy.

You simply can't walk away after building a team for 4years and expect folk to totally blame the new guy....there has to be a cut off true.... But the new guy needs the funds the old guy had and in this case we know it was not possible but that's only fair.

There lies most of the problem

Of course we need to move on, but lambert will take a lot longer with no money.

A big part of the Newcastle defeat was Andy Carroll bullying Clark. Don't see that as evidence of mon's defence cracking. And also how can you blame a manager who wasn't even there? Throughout the history of the prem there have been players who performed well under certain managers and not the same under others. It's not Mon's fault that houllier couldn't get decent performances from then.

The Chelsea game was a poor defensive show but how can you ignore the other 37 games and the overall defensive record. Ridiculous to pick a freak game at the end of the season to claim the cracks what showing.

Your other argument was ridiculous.

Might as well give no praise to lambert for signing Benteke because so? Just because he's good this season doesn't mean he'll be good next.

Using your logic in the summer we could have moaned at fergie for signing RVP, because so? Just because he was good the previous year doesn't mean he'll be good the next.

It's ridiculous.

You say how can you blame a manager that's not there...directly you can't... But indirectly you most certainly can. Managers spend years building a team, do you honestly believe al that work should dissipate the moment he waks out... If it does there was something most certainly wrong.

You need to think outside the circle.

Rons Saunders was largely credited with winning the European cup, but it wasn't his team was it....he wasn't,t there, was he.

You see Tony Barton was given a token of credit....in a similar way to RDM at Chelsea

Double standards do exist...we just need to spot them. But it seems to be the argument you are pedalling... You have to be there to be accountable( directly yes, indirectly no)....every business builder leaves a legacy.

You simply can't walk away after building a team for 4years and expect folk to totally blame the new guy....there has to be a cut off true.... But the new guy needs the funds the old guy had and in this case we know it was not possible but that's only fair.

There lies most of the problem

Of course we need to move on, but lambert will take a lot longer with no money.

[Tomaszk]

The new quoting system strikes again!

[Woodytom]

 

 

It would appear that in that time there was nobody really keeping a grip on things. So I would say it was a good job Paul Faulkner was appointed.

Yes, he's done a fantastic job in the areas of managerial appoinrments, longer term strategy and fulsome communication with the fans. We're lucky to have him.

 

 

Did I say he had done a fantastic job and that we were lucky to have him. Or did I just say it was a good job he was appointed to stop the ridiculous shambles Lerner/O'neill were running.

He's just substituted a different form of ridiculous shambles. Houllier, McLeish, Ireland, Bent, Makoun - how are they all doing at the Villa now?

 

 

What??

 

What have they got to do with anything?

 

Im talking about Faulkner coming in and recognising the spending was out of control. Not a difficult task admittedly but one which seemed above O'Neill and Lerner.

 

Since he came in the spending has rightly been cut down, and the losses are gradually decreasing. Just think what mess we would be in after another summer of O'Neill doing what he wants. An even worse mess than the one were currently in. That is all I am saying.

[Big_John_10]

Managers spend years building a team, do you honestly believe al that work should dissipate the moment he waks out... If it does there was something most certainly wrong.

Yes

The thing that was wrong was the replacement that followed.

I don't think every manager would have been as piss poor as houllier. I don't see how you can blame MoN for Houllier being so shit at his job.

[briny_ear]

He's just substituted a different form of ridiculous shambles. Houllier, McLeish, Ireland, Bent, Makoun - how are they all doing at the Villa now?

What??

What have they got to do with anything?

Im talking about Faulkner coming in and recognising the spending was out of control. Not a difficult task admittedly but one which seemed above O'Neill and Lerner.

Since he came in the spending has rightly been cut down, and the losses are gradually decreasing. Just think what mess we would be in after another summer of O'Neill doing what he wants. An even worse mess than the one were currently in. That is all I am saying.

i think the point is that spending has been cut back very ineptly. We've sold off all our decent players and kept the average ones. We have spent large sums on players such as Ireland, Bent, Makoun and N'Zogbia who have contributed little to the team (with an obvious exception of Bent who kept us up in 2010 but has faded since) and have wasted millions on short-lived and failing managers. All while attendances have fallen by well over 10 per cent. Can you see why I don't join in your paeons of praise to this man's magnificent financial management skills? Edited March 7, 2013 by briny_ear

[Zatman]

Managers spend years building a team, do you honestly believe al that work should dissipate the moment he waks out... If it does there was something most certainly wrong.

Yes

The thing that was wrong was the replacement that followed.

I don't think every manager would have been as piss poor as houllier. I don't see how you can blame MoN for Houllier being so shit at his job.

 

thats a copout. Tito Villanova is not a great manager but Barcelona players are doing the business for him. MON didnt know how to build a club longterm for the future, its happening again at Sunderland. He has a striker signed for big money(not im admittedly) tipped 2 years ago to be a future England No.9 but he never gets any game time at all and preferred to sign an aging Louis Saha

[briny_ear]

Just out of interest, what's the basis for saying Vilanova isn't a great manager? He managed Barcelona as part of a mangement team with Guardiola so we must assume he had some role in their fantastic success. His appointment smacks of good succession policy typical of the way Barcelona approach things.

 

He's not managing Barca at present of course as he is having treatment for cancer.

[Pelle]

I jumped into this thread and started reading. Then I checked the title of the thread again and thought to myself "Has this thread gone a bit off topic?"

[TrentVilla]

 

He's just substituted a different form of ridiculous shambles. Houllier, McLeish, Ireland, Bent, Makoun - how are they all doing at the Villa now?

What??

What have they got to do with anything?

Im talking about Faulkner coming in and recognising the spending was out of control. Not a difficult task admittedly but one which seemed above O'Neill and Lerner.

Since he came in the spending has rightly been cut down, and the losses are gradually decreasing. Just think what mess we would be in after another summer of O'Neill doing what he wants. An even worse mess than the one were currently in. That is all I am saying.

i think the point is that spending has been cut back very ineptly. We've sold off all our decent players and kept the average ones. We have spent large sums on players such as Ireland, Bent, Makoun and N'Zogbia who have contributed little to the team (with an obvious exception of Bent who kept us up in 2010 but has faded since) and have wasted millions on short-lived and failing managers. All while attendances have fallen by well over 10 per cent. Can you see why I don't join in your paeons of praise to this man's magnificent financial management skills?

 

Couldn't agree more.