The Randy Lerner thread

[houllierout]

So we have to have experience of running a club before we can criticise? Im off to run Beacon Colts for a weeks then coming back! :0)

Dear Mr Lerner

[Risso]

But - and this is the serious issue - does the RL/PF team know enough about football to be able to run the club effectively? As ex-bankers they no doubt understand the world monetary situation and doubtless that explains some of the decisions that have been made.

But I share the views of some others; I am not convinced that they do understand football enough and that is why (in my view) they need someone on board to balance-up that aspect. If that's not done then I can see a lot of very disappointed supporters for a long time to come - barring a bit of luck in the appointment of the right team manager.

Its funny because no one on here has run a football club or played football at a high level yet many seem to know whats best for the club and have all the answers...

Well said. And not only that, but also none of us have any experience of running a football club, but a large number seem to think we have the just the skills and faculties needed to authoritatively pass judgement on the capability and suitability of RL and PF for that role. It's the nature of messageboards and internet, but anyone taking the comments of any of us lot as anything other than mildly diverting waffle from the virtual food holes of skivers and obsessives probably wants to have a word with themself.

Hmm, I don't think that skills and faculties are needed to understand that owners and CEO's from a non footballing background would be better served by leaving football related decisions to experienced experts.

RL and PF are on a learning curve that will take a great deal longer than five years to turn them into experts in their field.

There must be experienced football administrators out there who could turn RL's thoughts into deeds more efficiently than PF at this moment in time imo.

It's not brain surgery Blandy.

Exactly. Lerner is a limited businessman and a novice football owner and he promoted his mate well beyond his experience or ability. How you can make nearly £90m worth of losses over two years and have it come as a complete surprise is breath taking.

[Houlston]

So we have to have experience of running a club before we can criticise? Im off to run Beacon Colts for a weeks then coming back! :0)

Dear Mr Lerner

No one has said that though have they.

[Risso]

So we have to have experience of running a club before we can criticise? Im off to run Beacon Colts for a weeks then coming back! :0)

Dear Mr Lerner

No one has said that though have they.

What do you suppose

"Its funny because no one on here has run a football club or played football at a high level yet many seem to know whats best for the club and have all the answers..."

means then?

[TrentVilla]

Well none of us have managed PL club or played for one either so there goes passing judgement on those....

[Richard]

In that article there the one thing I disagree with is this

"Hope.

This word is missing at Aston Villa"

Not for me, you see I still hope we stay up

[John_Lerwill]

So we have to have experience of running a club before we can criticise? Im off to run Beacon Colts for a weeks then coming back! :0)

Dear Mr Lerner

Just read your article. It says a lot, doesn't it, that the situation has caused that level of discontent? But I empathasise.

[Houlston]

So we have to have experience of running a club before we can criticise? Im off to run Beacon Colts for a weeks then coming back! :0)

Dear Mr Lerner

No one has said that though have they.

What do you suppose

"Its funny because no one on here has run a football club or played football at a high level yet many seem to know whats best for the club and have all the answers..."

means then?

Hmmm no where does it say you cant criticise. However as you have asked and are finding it a very complex sentence i'll explain. Some were pointing out we need a "football man" within the club, yet no one on here is a "football man" yet we all know whats best for the club.

[John_Lerwill]

Well none of us have managed PL club or played for one either so there goes passing judgement on those....

That kind of argument is equivalent to saying that "Oh, Mrs. Thatcher must know what she was doing to close the pits in the North East".

That action passed by with hardly a wimper from the rest of the country and we now find that that area has the highest level of unemployment as her successors have now closed the alternative employment.

Commonsense rules, OK?!! 8)

[blandy]

... none of us have any experience of running a football club, but a large number seem to think we have the just the skills and faculties needed to authoritatively pass judgement on the capability and suitability of RL and PF for that role. It's the nature of messageboards and internet, but anyone taking the comments of any of us lot as anything other than mildly diverting waffle from the virtual food holes of skivers and obsessives probably wants to have a word with themself.

Faulkner didn't have any experience of running a football club, but was still promoted by his mate from the position of a customer service manager at MBNA to running Aston Villa.

That's a fair point. And also has the benefit of demonstrating that you actually read, which these two posts fail to do. I think that as you sort of alluded to earlier, in the eralier days of RL, ther ewere a larger number of other people involved - people with sports marketing expertise, with expertise in ground development and so on. Over time all these people have ceased to be involved, and now it seems it's like Randy, Paul and Robin the finance man. I'm not sure that the "we need a football expert" point is totally spot on - more that we miss the expertise that was available and used in the early days, whether that be from Bob Kane or MO'N or anyone else Randy called upon. Perhaps there'd be merit in getting these type of people (not necessarily the same individuals) to have another look at it all?

Not having the experience of doing something yourself shouldn't prevent you from criticising others who don't have that experience either.

No-one's said it should.

Not sure that not having experience of running a football club or being a professional football person should preclude any fan from passing a comment , or expressing an opinion. That's what this site is here for surely?

No-one's said it should.

[maqroll]

There is nothing to suggest the liverpool owners will get it as wrong as we did and that daglish will walk out and be replaced by two useless managers.

Spending £75m on Henderson, Downing and Carroll is evidence enough.

But - and this is the serious issue - does the RL/PF team know enough about football to be able to run the club effectively? As ex-bankers they no doubt understand the world monetary situation and doubtless that explains some of the decisions that have been made.

But I share the views of some others; I am not convinced that they do understand football enough and that is why (in my view) they need someone on board to balance-up that aspect. If that's not done then I can see a lot of very disappointed supporters for a long time to come - barring a bit of luck in the appointment of the right team manager.

Its funny because no one on here has run a football club or played football at a high level yet many seem to know whats best for the club and have all the answers. So why should Randy be any different?

Erm...because he's the owner of Aston Villa Football Club.

[Houlston]

Not sure that not having experience of running a football club or being a professional football person should preclude any fan from passing a comment , or expressing an opinion. That's what this site is here for surely?

What do you always say about reading peoples posts properly?

Of course if its just a stand alone statement then you are indeed correct.

[John_Lerwill]

... I'm not sure that the "we need a football expert" point is totally spot on - more that we miss the expertise that was available and used in the early days, whether that be from Bob Kane or MO'N or anyone else Randy called upon. Perhaps there'd be merit in getting these type of people (not necessarily the same individuals) to have another look at it all?

Hope I'm not being cheeky, but aren't you arguing with yourself there, Blandy? :?

We now seem to be agreed that some kind of football expertise is needed.

[blandy]

Hmm, I don't think that skills and faculties are needed to understand that owners and CEO's from a non footballing background would be better served by leaving football related decisions to experienced experts.

That's exactly what's happened, it's exactly what RL has done.

The exception is the Milner sale and Ireland purchase, where the manager decided who, but then left, and the deal still went ahaead. I was extremely unhappy about that, and said so. But with that one exception, RL has left football decisions to managers and so that criticism is in large part totally unfair. In fact I'd say that if RL and PF were involving themselves in who to buy or sell then that would be very wrong, and would be worthy of criticism.

I'm not sure that (others) criticism of making money available to Houllier or O'Neill is really fair, either.

RL and PF are on a learning curve that will take a great deal longer than five years to turn them into experts in their field.

Probably right. A new owner woould have to play catch up even more.

There must be experienced football administrators out there who could turn RL's thoughts into deeds more efficiently than PF at this moment in time imo. It's not brain surgery Blandy.

WHy must there. If RL has decided what he wants to happen, and PF who he trusts completely is merely making it happen, what particualr qualities is it that PF is lacking that mean that your brain surgeon would be so much better at making "it" happen?

[stanthemanisgod]

The way I see it is I know next to nothing about the internal or external mechanics of a car but that does not prevent me from being a bad car owner. It simply means that I am forced to rely on the expertise of other people, usually employed or contracted by mysefl to conduxt routine maintnenance etc.

For me Randy is the same only now he's feeling the pinch a little, or perhaps has decided that paying for formula standard mechanics when you're driving a Porsche Boxster isn't the way ahead. So as a result the quality of the people he's relying on to assist him are perhaps not of the same quality than they were before. But does that necessarily make him a bad owner?

I'm sure that if you asked him in all honesty he would believe he is acting in the best interests of the club. He'll tell you (and I think he believes it) that he appointed the best manager available given the drive to be more cost effective.

So what we come down to is ultimately either a difference of opinion in terms of personality or a desire for him to be able to afford better people to help him out. I mean what does Mansour know about football but I'm sure if you ask the majority of City fans they'll think he's a fantastic owner.

I know some on here are keen to distance themselves from those that are asking for Randy to start spending loads of money but I really dont see how he could really attract the kind of people we'd all like to see without serious amounts of cash being made available for a complete overhaul of the club.

[villabromsgrove]

I'm a satisfied Villa fan despite our obvious shortcomings, because I believe that Randy is doing his best within the context of his own ability (both financially and intellectually).

The ability to delegate football related planning and application to a highly experienced football administrator, would ensure that whatever money Randy intends to make available in the future is more usefully spent imo.

[blandy]

... I'm not sure that the "we need a football expert" point is totally spot on - more that we miss the expertise that was available and used in the early days, whether that be from Bob Kane or MO'N or anyone else Randy called upon. Perhaps there'd be merit in getting these type of people (not necessarily the same individuals) to have another look at it all?

Hope I'm not being cheeky, but aren't you arguing with yourself there, Blandy? :?

We now seem to be agreed that some kind of football expertise is needed.

I'm posing the question/making the point that rather than the insistence that we need a DOF, John, which some people are adamant about, that it just seems to me that a lot of the advice on general sporting or sports related issues that was available and used perviously has perhaps not been available or used in more recent times - i.e things have changed for the worse. They were previously "good" when we had various advisers and so on. It's not the absence of a DOF that is the issue, but that some of the weaknesses, which I acknowledge we have are maybe down to too few people being involved. It's not that the ones we have are idiots or incapable buffoons as some seems to think, just that improvement or a return to previous better situation might be helped by RL getting people like Bob Kain etc to give him a bit more input from time to time.

I don't want to argue with anyone. I just say what I think.

[John_Lerwill]

... I'm not sure that the "we need a football expert" point is totally spot on - more that we miss the expertise that was available and used in the early days, whether that be from Bob Kane or MO'N or anyone else Randy called upon. Perhaps there'd be merit in getting these type of people (not necessarily the same individuals) to have another look at it all?

Hope I'm not being cheeky, but aren't you arguing with yourself there, Blandy? :?

We now seem to be agreed that some kind of football expertise is needed.

I'm posing the question/making the point that rather than the insistence that we need a DOF, John, which some people are adamant about, that it just seems to me that a lot of the advice on general sporting or sports related issues that was available and used perviously has perhaps not been available or used in more recent times - i.e things have changed for the worse. They were previously "good" when we had various advisers and so on. It's not the absence of a DOF that is the issue, but that some of the weaknesses, which I acknowledge we have are maybe down to too few people being involved. It's not that the ones we have are idiots or incapable buffoons as some seems to think, just that improvement or a return to previous better situation might be helped by RL getting people like Bob Kain etc to give him a bit more input from time to time.

I don't want to argue with anyone. I just say what I think.

Fair do's ... I'm certainly not adamant about a DoF and have already said that some football expertise seems to be needed in whatever form is appropriate.

Your 'proposal' might provide the solution, although (for my part) I would prefer it's someone like Brian Little who's providing the expertise.

So, how should this (possibly now something of a consensus) be transmitted to the powers that be?

[John_Lerwill]

I'm a satisfied Villa fan despite our obvious shortcomings, because I believe that Randy is doing his best within the context of his own ability (both financially and intellectually).

The ability to delegate football related planning and application to a highly experienced football administrator, would ensure that whatever money Randy intends to make available in the future is more usefully spent imo.

Absolutely right ... it's the equivalent of "to accumulate you have to speculate".

[villadude]

The bloke has done **** all worthy of a mention at his handball club over in the states, what makes anyone think he's got the know how and capacity to run a football club over here?

The sad thing is we're stuck with this shit now for the next few years, best we all get used to it.