Big_John_10 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) So when he goes he will have lost a considerable sum of money If that does happen are we meant to feel sorry for him? Grateful for 3 good seasons? I've got to be honest I'm not bothered one bit if a billionaire loses some money for being a **** up. Edited February 2, 2014 by Big_John_10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Lerner "invested" his money into a plan that hadn't been properly thought out & was doomed to fail. It was his choice-He stood to gain if he succeeded (not that he was ever going to) Is he cutting off his nose to spite his face by dragging the whole thing on in a futile attempt to grasp back money that he has lost? No way on earth are Villa worth anything near £200mil-Just take it on the chin Randy, its no-ones fault but yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Keep going around in circles here so I think I'm out as whatever is said people want to just lay the blame on Lerner and whilst I agree some of the decisions were not good in hindsight (MON money) or at all (McLeash). I think fans should consider their part or at least understand that unless prices go up and attendances improve (along with general attitude) that things won't change unless this mystical sugar daddy turns up or we get lucky with purchases (ala Benteke). I think people need a dose of reality!! Please remember TV money is increasing and we have been cutting the wage bill down significantly post 2010. It is totally wrong to blame our fan base for the club declining over the last four years, it has been caused by many clownish decisions from the people at the top (managers and owner). The fans have no responsibility or control whatsoever, they simply come and view the team on match days. People reacted positively to Lerner's initial investment and attendances grew, it will happen again easily. The loyal supporters have been served up disappointment after disappointment these past years, it is about time things changed for the better and ambition was reinstated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcTheObsession Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 The reason we have been around the bottom as we were still paying for our last attempt at mixing it with the big boys. The big contracts had to be paid for some way... Yet previously you were saying it was down to attendances, which over the past 5 years are higher than both Everton and Spurs btw who are top 6 regulars still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Fulham went for £150-200m. It's a nice location not sure what else they've got going for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Keep going around in circles here so I think I'm out as whatever is said people want to just lay the blame on Lerner and whilst I agree some of the decisions were not good in hindsight (MON money) or at all (McLeash). I think fans should consider their part or at least understand that unless prices go up and attendances improve (along with general attitude) that things won't change unless this mystical sugar daddy turns up or we get lucky with purchases (ala Benteke). I think people need a dose of reality!! Please remember TV money is increasing and we have been cutting the wage bill down significantly post 2010. It is totally wrong to blame our fan base for the club declining over the last four years, it has been caused by many clownish decisions from the people at the top (managers and owner). The fans have no responsibility or control whatsoever, they simply come and view the team on match days. People reacted positively to Lerner's initial investment and attendances grew, it will happen again easily. The loyal supporters have been served up disappointment after disappointment these past years, it is about time things changed for the better and ambition was reinstated. You could almost say that the board know that if they keep Villa in the premier league, no matter how bad they are, they will be getting at least 30,000 to 34,000 Villa fans every home game. They spent a load trying to get that top 4 space under MON and crowds only went up a bit so why bother trying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Lerner "invested" his money into a plan that hadn't been properly thought out & was doomed to fail. Manchester City changed his initial plan of spending, spending, spending. He could not compete with them at that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Lerner paid around £110 mil for Villa. The money he allowed MON to waste should not be added to the sale price. Its akin to a gambler asking for his money back after loosing a bet. If there are loans outstanding, then any potential buyer will inherit these debts which will effectively go directly to Lerner but still should not simply be added to the sale price. if Lerner genuinely gives a toss about us, he will strike a deal that is easy on the club. The loans for example could continue to be paid in interest free installments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Gentleman That is the lame excuse that Krulak used-Could we compete with Chelsea or Man U? The 5 year plan was to get into the CL. Not sure how Man City could have effected this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyjsg Posted February 2, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted February 2, 2014 The reason we have been around the bottom as we were still paying for our last attempt at mixing it with the big boys. The big contracts had to be paid for some way... Yet previously you were saying it was down to attendances, which over the past 5 years are higher than both Everton and Spurs btw who are top 6 regulars still. Read all my quotes, this is the 2nd time people haven't read what I have written properly. Price of tickets along with attendance and general profitability of the club (how saleable to Sponsors) is a huge factor (re spurs) and they take 60 million more in than us, I don't understand how people don't get that we don't make enough money to expect that things will be different. We got to 6th by spending money we couldn't afford so whilst attendances may have risen a little we weren't going enough or paying enough to cover the costs of our little jaunt. We are still paying this off now. Everton is the exception as they got lucky with players and managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 They spent a load trying to get that top 4 space under MON and crowds only went up a bit so why bother trying? Possibly. But why even bother buying the club in the first place with that attitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Keep going around in circles here so I think I'm out as whatever is said people want to just lay the blame on Lerner and whilst I agree some of the decisions were not good in hindsight (MON money) or at all (McLeash). I think fans should consider their part or at least understand that unless prices go up and attendances improve (along with general attitude) that things won't change unless this mystical sugar daddy turns up or we get lucky with purchases (ala Benteke). I think people need a dose of reality!! I know you said you're out, but you keep mentioning this and it just isn't true. Let's take £30 as the average ticket prices - as tickets cost between £23 -£40, I think, for West Ham - and an average attendance of 37,000. That gives us £1.11m per game, or £21m over the entire season (not counting cup games). Now let's say we have an extra 5000 turn up each week, that gives us £1.26m per game, or £23.9m per season. Not enough of an increase to make a significant change to the clubs finances, it adds almost £3m per year, enough to pay Gabby's wages. Now say ticket prices increase to £40 and we somehow keep the same attendance. Current attendances give £1.48m per game, £28.1m per year. A bigger increase, but with the dross that get's served up at home, not many are gonna pay £40 to watch it. And if somehow we get an extra 5000 per week, and increase prices to £40, we get £1.68m per game and £31.9m per year. A significant increase, it adds £10m to our current total, enough to get a very good midfielder in that we currently need, but with our current form it is unrealistic to increase ticket prices to this level and also expect 5000 extra people to turn up. Fans shouldn't consider their part, as unless their is a significant increase in ticket prices, the increase in revenue will be negligible. Money's tight at the minute for most people, why spend £30, let alone £40, to go watch a team that has hardly won at home all season. Yeah, you're supporting your team, but that money could be spent on something you'd actually enjoy. If attendances we were in the low 20,000s, I could understand saying the fans can take part of the blame, but since we are so close (ish) to max capacity each week, there is absolutely no way fans should "consider their part" as their part makes little to no difference currently. Edited February 2, 2014 by MessiWillSignForVilla 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Gentleman That is the lame excuse that Krulak used-Could we compete with Chelsea or Man U? The 5 year plan was to get into the CL. Not sure how Man City could have effected this? Of course MON could have done a lot better with the resources available but Manchester City changed everything. We needed to obtain Champions League football between 2008 to 2010 to have any chance of sustaining that spending level. Edited February 2, 2014 by GENTLEMAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Gentleman That is the lame excuse that Krulak used-Could we compete with Chelsea or Man U? The 5 year plan was to get into the CL. Not sure how Man City could have effected this? When Lerner took over, the top 4 was dominated by Arsenal, Utd and Chelsea, the 4th spot was wide open with Liverpool floundering, and Everton didn't look to capitalise any time soon, with a bit of good spending it was within reach of pretty much any other top half side. Then Man City became uber rich and shut off that 4th spot when they finished there. Tottenham showed how shrewd spending before then would of gotten you in and around the top 4, and they fortunately, for them, got in before City which meant they were "part of the club" when City shut off access so to speak. If Mansour hadn't bought City that 4th spot would of been much more wide open and achievable. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 The money he allowed MON to waste should not be added to the sale price. Its akin to a gambler asking for his money back after loosing a bet. Couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 The money he allowed MON to waste should not be added to the sale price. Its akin to a gambler asking for his money back after loosing a bet. Couldn't agree more. It depends, if he put that money in in the form of loans, he's entitled to it back, a bit shitty but he's covered his own arse. If he paid it in straight up, no loans, then he shouldn't be including it in the asking price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 There seems to be a lot of talk about money generated from attendance but what's happened to all the tv money??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I wasn't talking about prices and numbers turning up this year or even the last few I was talking about decades upon decades. Fact is we pay half what a Arsenal fan does and they get an extra 20 odd thousand in the stadium too, then there is all the corporate spending, bigger sponsorship (by a very wide margin), naming rights for the stadium, champions league revenue and lastly merchandising. That is the extent of the difference between Villa and Arsenal's finances. As fans we have never given the club the demand to move ground or expand it significantly. As fans we have never given the club the demand to bring ticket prices in line with clubs like Arsenal (get what you pay for) As fans we moan if anyone brings up the issue of changing the ground name. The other things mentioned such as corporate spending, larger sponsor deals, champions league money and merchandising come off the back off a solid first three if you don't have a Mansour to bank roll you to that point which you cant even do now due to financial fair play. That is where I was mentioning the fans role but I am not talking about a RECENT thing I am talking about something that has been going on for longer than I have been alive and coupled with our trophy hall of 1 European cup, 1 super cup, 1 league trophy and 1 FA cup in the last century point to the fact we are a big club but not a massive club and therefore shouldn't expect the best of everything because frankly we don't deserve it in comparison to say an Arsenal or Man Utd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 There is a well known correlation that whenever a new TV deal comes in player wages go up a lot, not just at Villa everywhere hence how top player can go from 10k to 300k a week in 20 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 The money he allowed MON to waste should not be added to the sale price. Its akin to a gambler asking for his money back after loosing a bet. Couldn't agree more. According to recent information of loan conversions the company is capitalised at £233m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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