The Randy Lerner thread

[PieFacE]

It looks like Randy has refused Red Bull. 

Or more likely that Red Bull were not interested in the first place....

[Big_John_10]

Well Lerner is an inspiration to us all. Maybe he took the high road and turned them down.

[smetrov]

Well Lerner is an inspiration to us all. Maybe he took the high road and turned them down.

 

Anybody sense the relish from Houllier when he delivered the 'not interested' news ? 

[Amo69]

I don't care who buys us as long as Lerner is long gone!

[blandy]

 

The Majority of the income of 14 clubs in the premier league is from premier league TV money......

What's your point?

That our increase in revenue due to this has little to do with the owner.

 

A long long time ago, a club's revenue was down to how many people went through the gate, and even then, clubs shared the gate money between home and away, so the differences inrevenue between the biggest supported clubs and the smallest was relatively small. It meant teams like Preston and Burnley could compete with Big City clubs, and win the league and so on.

Then it changed, and clubs kept all the home gate money, so the likes of PNE and Burnley fell from the top division. Revenue was still just gate money, really. Nothing much to do with owners.

Then along came TV, and still nothing to do with owners, the clubs in the top division got more TV money, and the more popular clubs got on the telly more. So they started to widen the income gap.

Then came the Premier league, and while the money is still split relatively fairly, the richer clubs were more or less able to monopolise the top positions, and cement their incomes.

Then came the Champions league, and the clubs in the top 4 got to get all that lovely Euro telly money.

And still it was little to do with the owners.

And then came Oligarchs and Sheiks and these deals where Etihad via various deals throw money at the likes of PSG or Man City. Now that is owners making a difference. Whether it's a good thing is another matter.

 

But for the rest of the clubs, outside the Champions league positions, their position in the big scheme of money leagues is dependent on which country they're in - so Celtic will be worse off than Fulham or whatever. So it's still mostly about factors other than owners.

 

The Deloitte league of rich clubs will be almost exclusively Champions league clubs, with a handful of Europa league clubs from the bigger TV money domestic leagues being in there too, and maybe the rare ones like Liverpool who have a worldwide fanbase and consequential commercial shirt deals etc that help them.

 

So unless a club is in the Champs league, (or owned by some gatrillionaire who "dopes" their income, then their place in the nauseous Deloitte table is little to do with ownership.

 

Comparing the current state of club finances with those in the 70s or 80s and seeking to lump "blame" on an owner based on placing in that table is somewhat ridiculous. It's comparing apples and oranges, because the way football money is "earnt" is so different now to even a few years ago.

 

You could pick extremes and say Villa was relegated under Ellis and wasn't in the top 22 clubs in England, never mind Europe, so Ellis was much worse. Or you could say the last couple of years our Deloitte placing is down on when we were in the Europa Cup thingy so that's proof that Randy's terrible and if we go up it's nothing to do with him, anyway so he's worse. But it's irrelevant.

Our income, like most English clubs is highly dependent on league placing. If we have a low finish we drop income, if we have a higher finish we increase income. Big commercial deals go to clubs in and around the top positions, because they get on telly more, they get in Europe.

With the right conditions, a few clubs could break into the big money. They need to be in a big City, have a large fanbase, a decent sized ground, start doing well in one of the major Leagues - Spain, England, Germany, Italy, maybe France, they need to have a wealthy owner to start with and a good commercial dept. They need of course for one or more of the current richest clubs to tail away, too. They need to have a plan and stick to it, over a number of years, they need stability, they need to find or develop young players and have some luck. If they're in a capital city even better.

Those are the reasons why Everton, West Ham, Spurs, Leeds, Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland and a few others have behaved as they have and could be, or are potential targets for new owners and for their fans to have a hope that they could rise up and get in the top money earning echelons. Spurs I imagine are already there or close to it - they got in the Champions league, didn't they and may do again

[Big_John_10]

Comparing the current state of club finances with those in the 70s or 80s

I'm not, I'm comparing it with our premiership years and unfortunately like a lot of aspects of the club this is another area where we are allowing other teams to overtake us under the fantastic ownership of randy Lerner.

Its another thing that will make 'the plan' more difficult and why under Lerner finishing top half is becoming a struggle.

No doubt it will be shrugged off as nothing as we continue to drop.

[Big_John_10]

I'm still amazed there's people who continue to defend him. Look at the last few years. Poor results and league finishes, loss in revenue, competition catching and overtaking us. And during all this the same group defending him and backing 'the plan' to spend what we can afford but failing to acknowledge that because of the owner that this now makes a top half finish a struggle.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Big_John_10

[ozvillafan]

I'm still amazed there's people who continue to defend him. Look at the last few years. Poor results and league finishes, loss in revenue, competition catching and overtaking us. And during all this the same group defending him and backing 'the plan' to spend what we can afford but failing to acknowledge that because of the owner that this now makes a top half finish a struggle.

 

I'm still amazed there are people who continue to believe that Ellis was better than Lerner, that this current dip in results is somehow inferior to being relegated under our previous owner and that the fairly recent additions of "mega-rich" owners somehow makes no difference.

[1958Villan]

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that it doesn't matter how rich a new owner is, the rules have changed and so he would not be allowed to pump untold amounts of money into the team.

People tend to forget that Randy tried for it, it being Champions League qualification, sadly he had the wrong manager to achieve it.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that it doesn't matter how rich a new owner is, the rules have changed and so he would not be allowed to pump untold amounts of money into the team.

People tend to forget that Randy tried for it, it being Champions League qualification, sadly he had the wrong manager to achieve it.

 

 

 

There is always a way, furthermore they would be able to pump money into marketing, infrastructure, forge sponsorship deals to boost revenue etc!

[Big_John_10]

I'm still amazed there's people who continue to defend him. Look at the last few years. Poor results and league finishes, loss in revenue, competition catching and overtaking us. And during all this the same group defending him and backing 'the plan' to spend what we can afford but failing to acknowledge that because of the owner that this now makes a top half finish a struggle.

I'm still amazed there are people who continue to believe that Ellis was better than Lerner, that this current dip in results is somehow inferior to being relegated under our previous owner and that the fairly recent additions of "mega-rich" owners somehow makes no difference.

Yeah we've had 3 relegation worried seasons because of a few mega rich owners. And if you experienced relegation with Doug then I fully understand why you'd think that was worse. But I didn't. I haven't experienced a 3 and a half year period of the club being this poor before so for me he's doing a lot worse.

And let's be honest when Lerner took over did you ever think you'd see us get a lower points total than Doug/DOL? Let alone get lower two consecutive seasons? Did you think you'd watch our worst premiership start to a season? Did you think you'd see us let in more goals in a single season than we had in over 25 years? Did you think you'd witness us lose by the joint biggest margin in the clubs history?

Doug held us back and stopped us from being great but Lerner is now making it difficult for us to be a top half team.

[Amo69]

I am still amazed that people defend Lerner after Mcliesh. As far as I'm concerned everything they do after that point is irrelevant. They have to leave and the sooner the better.

[avfc1982]

I'm still amazed there's people who continue to defend him. Look at the last few years. Poor results and league finishes, loss in revenue, competition catching and overtaking us. And during all this the same group defending him and backing 'the plan' to spend what we can afford but failing to acknowledge that because of the owner that this now makes a top half finish a struggle.

 

I'm still amazed there are people who continue to believe that Ellis was better than Lerner, that this current dip in results is somehow inferior to being relegated under our previous owner and that the fairly recent additions of "mega-rich" owners somehow makes no difference.

"Current dip in results"?

We've had nearly 4 seasons of relegation battles and diabolical football and you're referring to it as a "dip"!

Tell me, when did we have 4 consecutive seasons of shite under Ellis?

[ozvillafan]

"Current dip in results"?

We've had nearly 4 seasons of relegation battles and diabolical football and you're referring to it as a "dip"!

Tell me, when did we have 4 consecutive seasons of shite under Ellis?

 

 

9th is a relegation battle?

 

As for Ellis, research the years 1968, 1969 and 1970.

 

Or, to play your own game, tell me a period under Ellis where we finished in the top 6 three years running.

[ozvillafan]

And let's be honest when Lerner took over did you ever think you'd see us get a lower points total than Doug/DOL? Let alone get lower two consecutive seasons? Did you think you'd watch our worst premiership start to a season? Did you think you'd see us let in more goals in a single season than we had in over 25 years? Did you think you'd witness us lose by the joint biggest margin in the clubs history?

 

 

 

Let me throw it back to you: When Lerner took over, did you ever honestly think Man City would win the league? And be able to outspend virtually any other club, worldwide? After 3 years in the top 6 with an open chequebook, did you ever honestly think MON could get any higher?

[Big_John_10]

And let's be honest when Lerner took over did you ever think you'd see us get a lower points total than Doug/DOL? Let alone get lower two consecutive seasons? Did you think you'd watch our worst premiership start to a season? Did you think you'd see us let in more goals in a single season than we had in over 25 years? Did you think you'd witness us lose by the joint biggest margin in the clubs history?

Let me throw it back to you: When Lerner took over, did you ever honestly think Man City would win the league? And be able to outspend virtually any other club, worldwide? After 3 years in the top 6 with an open chequebook, did you ever honestly think MON could get any higher?

What has man city got to do with how bad we've been? Man City aren't the reason we hired two poor managers, continued to waste money and then made drastic financial cuts to the playing squad.

[avfc1982]

"Current dip in results"?

We've had nearly 4 seasons of relegation battles and diabolical football and you're referring to it as a "dip"!

Tell me, when did we have 4 consecutive seasons of shite under Ellis?

 

9th is a relegation battle?

 

As for Ellis, research the years 1968, 1969 and 1970.

 

Or, to play your own game, tell me a period under Ellis where we finished in the top 6 three years running.

The Houllier season was a struggle all the way through right through to the last handful of games. It was basically shit and the spectre of relegation was always close by. It also was hint of what was to come.

By the way those early years of Ellis were when he turned up and helped save the club from going under.

Also if you're gonna be petty, tell me when Lerner's Villa ever had a run as good as this, 4th, 5th, 7th, 6th, 6th, 8th, 8th...

And that's before even mentioning the 2 runners up positions.

The only blot is '87, but at the very least we came straight back up. That was Ellis all over. When we had a bad season he'd make money available to make sure the following season was a big improvement. Lerner just sits back and doesn't give a shit.

[Risso]

 

"Current dip in results"?

We've had nearly 4 seasons of relegation battles and diabolical football and you're referring to it as a "dip"!

Tell me, when did we have 4 consecutive seasons of shite under Ellis?

 

 

9th is a relegation battle?

 

As for Ellis, research the years 1968, 1969 and 1970.

 

Or, to play your own game, tell me a period under Ellis where we finished in the top 6 three years running.

 

 

We might have finished 9th, but we absolutely were in a relegation battle all season.

[avfc1982]

And let's be honest when Lerner took over did you ever think you'd see us get a lower points total than Doug/DOL? Let alone get lower two consecutive seasons? Did you think you'd watch our worst premiership start to a season? Did you think you'd see us let in more goals in a single season than we had in over 25 years? Did you think you'd witness us lose by the joint biggest margin in the clubs history?

 

 

Let me throw it back to you: When Lerner took over, did you ever honestly think Man City would win the league? And be able to outspend virtually any other club, worldwide? After 3 years in the top 6 with an open chequebook, did you ever honestly think MON could get any higher?

Of course we could have got higher. How the hell have Everton managed to finish 5th and 4th while we go backwards under Lerner? Did Man City turning up prevent every other team from having an iota of ambition?

[Risso]

 

"Current dip in results"?

We've had nearly 4 seasons of relegation battles and diabolical football and you're referring to it as a "dip"!

Tell me, when did we have 4 consecutive seasons of shite under Ellis?

 

 

9th is a relegation battle?

 

As for Ellis, research the years 1968, 1969 and 1970.

 

Or, to play your own game, tell me a period under Ellis where we finished in the top 6 three years running.

 

 

From 95/6 we finished in position 4, 5, 7, 6, 6, 8, 8, 16, 6, 10, 16.  8 out of 11 seasons in the top 8.  On top of the two league cup wins.  It went wrong at the end, just like it's gone wrong now under Lerner.