The Randy Lerner thread

[TRO]

Everytime we address why things are not going so well ...we revert to Ownership as the Achilles heel.

 

No one on here is foolish enough to say oodles of money wouldn't help, but it appears we haven't got it. and when we have with the odd exception, ain't the best at spending it.

 

There are many examples of clubs who do not have the monies we have but appear to be able to compete with us, when spending it...Everton, Swansea, WBA, Fulham, Cardiff, Stoke and more

 

....are we barking up the wrong tree?

[markavfc40]

 

FACE FACTS we should be happy with 7th to 9th

 

 

Please stop all this my great club bollocks we are average PL fodder that doesn't make us Southend......

 

 

I'm not sure what your basing this tripe on. I'm not sure how the stats add up now but back in 2010 we stood as the 4th most successful club in terms of trophies won in the history of English football. We were also at that time 6th in the overall Premier League table since it began. We had also just finished 6th three times on the spin. Everything about the club at that time - long, medium and short term history told you we were at the very least one of the top 6 clubs in this country.

Now due in the main to some very poor managerial choices and a lack of investment we have struggled over the last three years. Our most sustained period of struggle in over 25 years. Do not let that blind you though. This is and always will be a great and very special club.The history it has you simply can't buy right back from our chairman at the time inventing the league. No fan should ever lose sight of how great this club is and how lucky we still are even in times of struggle to be supporters of it. We do however have to maintain our high expectations, expectations built on years of tradition and that even at times when we struggle separate us from other clubs.We ever lose sight of how great we are and lower our expectations as fans we'd be doing a disservice to all those fans who have gone before us and we may as well throw the towel in.

Edited September 15, 2013 by markavfc40

[suttonpaul]

 

FACE FACTS we should be happy with 7th to 9th

You say this like we've finished there and people aren't happy.

In 10/11 we scraped into 9th place with 2 excellent results when the manager Lerner hired was too ill to be around the first team.

We then finished in 16th place the 2 seasons that followed. So not sure what the point is here.

Please stop all this my great club bollocks we are average PL fodder

So have we become this under Lerner or were we like this under Doug? Because under Doug we seemed to all expect more but now we're just average so we should be happy if we achieve mediocrity.

 

 

I say this like our fans need to get real with expectations of how close it is between the clubs after the top six teams in the league and excuse me if I don't shit my pants after 4 games of which we did extremely well in 2 games at Stamford Bridge and Ashburton Grove

 

As for your Doug vs Lerner comparison it doesn't wash with me as I have enough brain cells to see what has happened to PL club ownership since 2006 and 2013 the leagues moved on you should too.

[P3te]

How many trophies have we won in the last decade? Two decades? Half a century? century?

[StefanAVFC]

 

A for your Doug vs Lerner comparison it doesn't wash with me as I have enough brain cells to see what has happened to PL club ownership since 2006 and 2013 the leagues moved on you should too.

 

 

I just wanted to say this very point. Completely different landscape now. Our club under Doug in this NEW PL landscape would be a completely different proposition to that of our club under his ownership in the early/mid 00's

[Big_John_10]

The leagues moved on so now we have to be happy with mediocrity? Rubbish.

Under doug we played in europe, usually finished above the majority of teams each year and even won a couple of cups. And that wasn't good enough for us. Now we just have to pray we actually have a plan to get us back to that.

[P3te]

We should be looking to get ourselves on sound footing so we can properly compete again. You don't go from mediocre to great overnight, you need solid foundations, and sustainable ones to build on. We're several steps ahead of most clubs in that respect. I'm happy for us not to sacrifice that to finish a few irrelevant places higher for a few years. I want us to build a platform that we can genuinely launch something from down the line. Young players and sensible spending is the way to do that.

Your proposing spending a fortune for what? So we can't actually play in Europe because FFP regulations rule us out? That's a great plan. Let's throw loads of money at not playing in Europe instead of spending within our means and gradually getting there so we actually CAN play when we finish in the European positions

[suttonpaul]

 

 

FACE FACTS we should be happy with 7th to 9th

 

 

Please stop all this my great club bollocks we are average PL fodder that doesn't make us Southend......

 

 

I'm not sure what your basing this tripe on. I'm not sure how the stats add up now but back in 2010 we stood as the 4th most successful club in terms of trophies won in the history of English football. We were also at that time 6th in the overall Premier League table since it began. We had also just finished 6th three times on the spin. Everything about the club at that time - long, medium and short term history told you we were at the very least one of the top 6 clubs in this country.

Now due in the main to some very poor managerial choices and a lack of investment we have struggled over the last three years. Our most sustained period of struggle in over 25 years. Do not let that blind you though. This is and always will be a great and very special club.The history it has you simply can't buy right back from our chairman at the time inventing the league. No fan should ever lose sight of how great this club is and how lucky we still are even in times of struggle to be supporters of it. We do however have to maintain our high expectations, expectations built on years of tradition and that even at times when we struggle separate us from other clubs.We ever lose sight of how great we are and lower our expectations as fans we'd be doing a disservice to all those fans who have gone before us and we may as well throw the towel in.

 

All very nice mate except two things we are one of only 7 or eight clubs who have been in the PL every year so that stat just says that because we have managed not to get relegated we are there by proxy and way more importantly this 4th most successful club point you made I have one thing to say about this.... how many cups in our roll of honour have we won since 1945? make it 1913 in the last 100 years. We won loads so many generations ago that when you take it away we don't look as special as what you say. Which reflects where we are today.

 

I am as much a fan as anyone on here. I'm just a realist.

 

 

No FA Cup Win for 56 years and take that one cup away no win for 93 years!

 

No League Cup win for 17 years

 

No League win for 31 years and take that one away no league win for 102 years.

 

• FA Cup 7:
  • 1887, 1895, 1897, 1905, 1913, 1920, 1957
• League Cup 5:
  • 1961, 1975, 1977, 1994, 1996
• First Division champions 7:
  • 1893–94, 1895–96, 1896–97, 1898–99, 1899–1900, 1909–10, 1980–81

How many trophies have we won in the last decade? Two decades? Half a century? century?

 

lol just seen your post I was typing it while you posted that.

[suttonpaul]

We should be looking to get ourselves on sound footing so we can properly compete again. You don't go from mediocre to great overnight, you need solid foundations, and sustainable ones to build on. We're several steps ahead of most clubs in that respect. I'm happy for us not to sacrifice that to finish a few irrelevant places higher for a few years. I want us to build a platform that we can genuinely launch something from down the line. Young players and sensible spending is the way to do that.

Your proposing spending a fortune for what? So we can't actually play in Europe because FFP regulations rule us out? That's a great plan. Let's throw loads of money at not playing in Europe instead of spending within our means and gradually getting there so we actually CAN play when we finish in the European positions

 

I would love to hear his proposals to.

[Villarocker]

The idea that Doug and Randy are similar, or even comparable is laughable, one was a fat provincial leech in a time of provincial leeches, the other a multi-millionaire benefactor in an age of billionaire benefactors.

And how has having one running the club improved your enjoyment as a villa fan over the other?

To be fair, Ellis had the club for a lot longer than Lerner has and we were never in the financial state we're in now despite the fact he bankrolled a lot of big signings in his time.

Lerner has not only jeopardised our Premier League status, he's also put us in serious financial trouble.

The big question is what he will do once he gets the books balanced again.

It's all short term with you isn't it. Absolutely no appreciation of long term security. **** the club being stable, let's only worry about the immediate future, eh? Who cares about long term

[StefanAVFC]

The leagues moved on so now we have to be happy with mediocrity? Rubbish.

Under doug we played in europe, usually finished above the majority of teams each year and even won a couple of cups. And that wasn't good enough for us. Now we just have to pray we actually have a plan to get us back to that.

 

You're continually missing the point though. Under Doug and the era he owned the club in, you didn't need to spend to stand still because the financial climate isn't as corrupted as it is now. We rarely spent big money, yet, as you rightly said, we played in Europe and finished highly. In this climate with the ridiculous sums of cash flying around, you have to spend millions just to stay in the league.

 

I don't like to deal in hypotheticals, but with the league as it is now; under Doug we would have been relegated long ago.

[RimmyJimmer]

Ha ha...3 defeats on the spin and it's randy lerners fault. Where was this thread for the last 3 months of last season?? Yes he has made 1 real bad managerial appointment but u cannot deny he has pumped a massive amount of cash in. Do fans not realise this??

Everybody just calm down :-)

[Big_John_10]

We should be looking to get ourselves on sound footing so we can properly compete again. You don't go from mediocre to great overnight, you need solid foundations, and sustainable ones to build on. We're several steps ahead of most clubs in that respect. I'm happy for us not to sacrifice that to finish a few irrelevant places higher for a few years. I want us to build a platform that we can genuinely launch something from down the line. Young players and sensible spending is the way to do that.

Your proposing spending a fortune for what? So we can't actually play in Europe because FFP regulations rule us out? That's a great plan. Let's throw loads of money at not playing in Europe instead of spending within our means and gradually getting there so we actually CAN play when we finish in the European positions

Am i proposing spending a fortune?

I've actually said i was happy with the business we did in the summer. Unlike you though i don't have complete faith that we actually have a plan to be competitive again. And unlike you i do blame Lerner for the decline of our club and the fact we have seen such a consistent level of shitness.

[Big_John_10]

Ha ha...3 defeats on the spin and it's randy lerners fault.

Have you not been around for the last few years?

[suttonpaul]

 

We should be looking to get ourselves on sound footing so we can properly compete again. You don't go from mediocre to great overnight, you need solid foundations, and sustainable ones to build on. We're several steps ahead of most clubs in that respect. I'm happy for us not to sacrifice that to finish a few irrelevant places higher for a few years. I want us to build a platform that we can genuinely launch something from down the line. Young players and sensible spending is the way to do that.

Your proposing spending a fortune for what? So we can't actually play in Europe because FFP regulations rule us out? That's a great plan. Let's throw loads of money at not playing in Europe instead of spending within our means and gradually getting there so we actually CAN play when we finish in the European positions

Am i proposing spending a fortune?

I've actually said i was happy with the business we did in the summer. Unlike you though i don't have complete faith that we actually have a plan to be competitive again. And unlike you i do blame Lerner for the decline of our club and the fact we have seen such a consistent level of shitness.

 

 

Sorry what?

 

What are you proposing should be done.

[StefanAVFC]

I blame the super rich clubs for saturating the market so much for making it impossible to compete AT ALL without spending unspeakable amounts of money. When RL bought the club, the only team doing that were Chelsea. Now every single top 10 club is splashing <10m on players. That wasn't happening when RL took over and it was far easier to compete.

 

I feel a bit sorry for RL to be honest. I think he's out of his depth in the current market, but he was exactly what we needed when he took over.

[P3te]

We should be looking to get ourselves on sound footing so we can properly compete again. You don't go from mediocre to great overnight, you need solid foundations, and sustainable ones to build on. We're several steps ahead of most clubs in that respect. I'm happy for us not to sacrifice that to finish a few irrelevant places higher for a few years. I want us to build a platform that we can genuinely launch something from down the line. Young players and sensible spending is the way to do that.

Your proposing spending a fortune for what? So we can't actually play in Europe because FFP regulations rule us out? That's a great plan. Let's throw loads of money at not playing in Europe instead of spending within our means and gradually getting there so we actually CAN play when we finish in the European positions

Am i proposing spending a fortune?

I've actually said i was happy with the business we did in the summer. Unlike you though i don't have complete faith that we actually have a plan to be competitive again. And unlike you i do blame Lerner for the decline of our club and the fact we have seen such a consistent level of shitness.

Where did I say I had complete faith in anything? I believe that a sensible financial approach is the only way to have a chance of anything. It's not a guarantee, nor am I expecting anyone or anything to work out a certain way. It gives us the best chance though

You're entitled to blame Lerner if you want, but I'm not sure we'd have been able to get anyone else to take over who would've pumped as much money in. Lerner's biggest mistake was not reigning MON in after year 3

[Big_John_10]

but he was exactly what we needed when he took over.

Well considering our current state, no he wasn't.

[Big_John_10]

We should be looking to get ourselves on sound footing so we can properly compete again. You don't go from mediocre to great overnight, you need solid foundations, and sustainable ones to build on. We're several steps ahead of most clubs in that respect. I'm happy for us not to sacrifice that to finish a few irrelevant places higher for a few years. I want us to build a platform that we can genuinely launch something from down the line. Young players and sensible spending is the way to do that.

Your proposing spending a fortune for what? So we can't actually play in Europe because FFP regulations rule us out? That's a great plan. Let's throw loads of money at not playing in Europe instead of spending within our means and gradually getting there so we actually CAN play when we finish in the European positions

Am i proposing spending a fortune?

I've actually said i was happy with the business we did in the summer. Unlike you though i don't have complete faith that we actually have a plan to be competitive again. And unlike you i do blame Lerner for the decline of our club and the fact we have seen such a consistent level of shitness.

 

Sorry what?

 

What are you proposing should be done.

Well i'd love him to sell the club or at least increase the budget to make us competitive again. That doesn't mean spending a fortune. I'd like to see clear action that we're not just happy surviving on the cheap.

[OutByEaster?]

 

We should be looking to get ourselves on sound footing so we can properly compete again. You don't go from mediocre to great overnight, you need solid foundations, and sustainable ones to build on. We're several steps ahead of most clubs in that respect. I'm happy for us not to sacrifice that to finish a few irrelevant places higher for a few years. I want us to build a platform that we can genuinely launch something from down the line. Young players and sensible spending is the way to do that.

Your proposing spending a fortune for what? So we can't actually play in Europe because FFP regulations rule us out? That's a great plan. Let's throw loads of money at not playing in Europe instead of spending within our means and gradually getting there so we actually CAN play when we finish in the European positions

Am i proposing spending a fortune?

I've actually said i was happy with the business we did in the summer. Unlike you though i don't have complete faith that we actually have a plan to be competitive again. And unlike you i do blame Lerner for the decline of our club and the fact we have seen such a consistent level of shitness.

 

The thing is though that the only way to be competitive is to spend a fortune. I don't think we have a plan to be as competitive as you'd like us to be, because I know that we can't afford it - the only plan that does that is "Get bought by an extremely rich owner" an owner as different to Randy as he is to Doug - that's how quickly things changed. From where we are to sixth would take £100m a year for the next four years - that's the only way to do it - it's how the league is designed. If you blame Lerner for the decline of our club, then you blame the decline of the club on the lack of spending, if you want that to change, then you are proposing spending a fortune. 

 

You can't have both - it's no longer possible to have success without spending a fortune.

 

And P3te, solid foundations don't get you there - neither does a sound financial footing - the teams that have made it have made it by spending the best part of a billion pounds that they didn't have. That's why for me, the interesting bit starts once we've finished the rationalisation and we are a club with a balance sheet that makes sense for a regular company - where do we go from there?

 

I think the plan is to get comfy and sit there until either the worlds richest man wanders by or someone changes the rules - I don't think that's a reflection of Lerner's ambition, I think it's a sensible response to knowing that he doesn't have enough money to do something different.