Dodgyknees Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The results are unforgivable - I am not going to give Lambert and easier time than I gave Houllier or Mcleish. - That said I do have hope that Lambert can progress and in future my build us a better villa team. I had no hope that either Houllier or Mcleish would do that. I think Lambert just dropped a few clangers in last summers transfers - thats set him back 12 months (all IMO of Course) What is he supposed to do with 10m net? We were short of numbers as it was, so he had to fill the team AND buy quality. It is not possible mate. We will lose Lambert to a forward thinking ambitious club at this rate and that is what scares me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The results are unforgivable - I am not going to give Lambert and easier time than I gave Houllier or Mcleish. - That said I do have hope that Lambert can progress and in future my build us a better villa team. I had no hope that either Houllier or Mcleish would do that. I think Lambert just dropped a few clangers in last summers transfers - thats set him back 12 months (all IMO of Course) What is he supposed to do with 10m net? We were short of numbers as it was, so he had to fill the team AND buy quality. It is not possible mate. We will lose Lambert to a forward thinking ambitious club at this rate and that is what scares me. Lambert is a good way off being scouted for another club IMO. With regards to this summers dealings - I wouldn't have brought Tonev or Kozak - and would have brought another CB & AM - I also wouldn't have let Bent go out on loan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 and would have brought another CB Really? So we would of had Clark, Baker, Okore, Vlaar and another CB on the books? Not the best way to spend limited funds to enhance a paper thin squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The results are unforgivable - I am not going to give Lambert and easier time than I gave Houllier or Mcleish. - That said I do have hope that Lambert can progress and in future my build us a better villa team. I had no hope that either Houllier or Mcleish would do that. I think Lambert just dropped a few clangers in last summers transfers - thats set him back 12 months (all IMO of Course) What is he supposed to do with 10m net? We were short of numbers as it was, so he had to fill the team AND buy quality. It is not possible mate. We will lose Lambert to a forward thinking ambitious club at this rate and that is what scares me. Lambert is a good way off being scouted for another club IMO. With regards to this summers dealings - I wouldn't have brought Tonev or Kozak - and would have brought another CB & AM - I also wouldn't have let Bent go out on loan I'm happy with the defence, I think the issue is the protection we have in front of the defenders and this is where I think we spent far less than we should have. Southampton are a good example of buying for positions they need. We needed: Left back - check Two wingers - check / no Defensive mid - no Attacking midfielder - no Striker - yes (x2) I'd say to get all of the above we will be looking at spending 25-30m which is the same bracket as Swansea, Southampton and a few million more than Cardiff and other 'smaller teams' HH has admitted targets were missed due to finance. PL admitted at the fans forum we looked at some AM's The manager is not being backed to buy who he needs, so he has to gamble on potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 and would have brought another CB Really? So we would of had Clark, Baker, Okore, Vlaar and another CB on the books? Not the best way to spend limited funds to enhance a paper thin squad. Clarks form is dubious and Baker and Vlaar are injury prone. So yes I would have brought another CB . Numerically I take your point - but for reasons I have outlined I still think we need an extra body there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) I support Aston Villa, not Paul Lambert. So please don't use strawman arguments like 'go and support another team'... Yes Paul Lambert the manager of AVFC. We get it you don't like him, all this half hearted support is nonsense. But to label his football as not much different to McLeish shows your level of support. Did you ever physically go and watch a game under McLeish because your comment shows you never. I don't see a great difference in the football either, on the whole it's still as **** dire as it was under him Since the turn of the year our performances away have been much better then anything under McLeish (bar Chelsea) but I just don't see any major improvement to how we play at home. We still look like the away team almost every time we play at VP. So no improvement at home, take it you were away for the Sunderland game then, or the QPR, West Ham. Even the performances against Chelsea, Liverpool. I just don't understand how you can say you see no difference, actually I can you just don't have the bottle to say you want Lambert gone. Edited October 29, 2013 by SikhInTrinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The context is irrelevant because you've made the point elsewhere. I don't have to like the current style to say it's better than McLeish's. As for Kozak, what if he ends up being an integral player for us? Will he be a wise signing then? Lol but wait, what does PL's perceived tactical limitations have to do with anything? Do you know the exact reason he was bought? No, you can only speculate, and thus can't make sweeping statements as to why he was bought and whether or not he was a good buy so early into his Villa career. The context has everything to do with it because that is the post you decided to reply to. Regardless of whether you don't think possession statistics count for much, that doesn't change the validy of my original reply to a poster who believed we had better possession statistics last season under Lambert then we did under McLeish when this isn't the case. As I've said already, judgements on playing style are subjective. I don't see much improvement with the football played at home under Lambert, you clearly do. Regarding Kozak, it isn't speculation at all. From the mouth of Paul Lambert: ...we need somebody like him as we only have Christian Benteke really as a main target man. “He’ll take that burden off Christian and he’ll add greatly to what we’ve got... So firstly he is seen as the same type of player by the manager and secondly he has been brought in to 'take the burden' off Benteke (i.e. be his understudy). Now considering that we already had quite a few strikers here, why would we desperately (we had been chasing him all summer according to Lambert) need an understudy for Benteke? The only reason, as many have alluded to, is to be able to play the same system in Benteke's absence. Thus the fact that Lambert feels he can only play with a 'target-man' in the team is a pointer of tactical limitation. Finally, my views on Kozak as a player are well known and you can check them out in his thread if you wish. I stand by everything I've said about him. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong. Why is it a tactical limitation? It's his preference to play a certain style, also highlighted in bold, has he told you this personally as if he hasn't it can't be a fact can it? As he stated at the time of signing Kozak he felt he didn't have another target-man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Fair play- I forgot about that one Put another way, from the same set of home fixtures last season, 0 points. Think Spurs was a lot closer this time around & Everton certainly knew they'd been in a game on Saturday I agree, to me we look more competitive this year. We've been unlucky to lose Okore and have also been without Benteke for a spell. The next five fixtures will be a benchmark - they only yielded 4 points for us last season but I expect us to take 7-9 this season We are already 4 points up on the same fixtures as last year. Good enough progress for me Nice to see you posting again VillaCas. Taking into consideration how the team finished last season are you still happy with our style of play? The season so far has been a mixed bag - some good perfromances and some poor ones. I was particularly disappointed by our performance against Newcastle and feel like Spurs and Everton were there for the taking if we had a little more confidence and cutting edge. We've been unlucky with injuries to Okore and Benteke which hasn't helped. In terms of our style of play I would like to see us taking more possession and being more positive, especially at home I'm still happy with Lambert and I still believe we are progressing and I think it's too early to judge progress this season, especially given our tough run of fixtures. We are four points better off than the same fixtures last season. The next five games will be tell me a lot more - I'm looking for at least 7 points and hopefully more. It will also tell us a bit more about the new signings, some are finding their feet but some like Kozak have yet to make an impact - the next few games will be important for them I am concerned that even if Lambert is wildly successful, 8th place is about the best we could contemplate given the level of investment available Not a lot to disagree with there other than i do feel the quality of football we're playing at the moment is not representative of the final third of last season and certainly isn't any better but that could be due to any number of things and we'll be in a better place to judge come Christmas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) The results are unforgivable - I am not going to give Lambert and easier time than I gave Houllier or Mcleish. - That said I do have hope that Lambert can progress and in future my build us a better villa team. I had no hope that either Houllier or Mcleish would do that. I think Lambert just dropped a few clangers in last summers transfers - thats set him back 12 months (all IMO of Course) I don't understand how you can write off a bunch of players so early. If I recall right you've been saying this since about September. Why can't players be given a season at least before being written off as "clangers"? Even a whole season can sometimes not be enough (e.g. El Ahmadi). Edited October 29, 2013 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The results are unforgivable - I am not going to give Lambert and easier time than I gave Houllier or Mcleish. - That said I do have hope that Lambert can progress and in future my build us a better villa team. I had no hope that either Houllier or Mcleish would do that. I think Lambert just dropped a few clangers in last summers transfers - thats set him back 12 months (all IMO of Course) as in this seasons results. is the opposition not taken into account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The context is irrelevant because you've made the point elsewhere. I don't have to like the current style to say it's better than McLeish's. As for Kozak, what if he ends up being an integral player for us? Will he be a wise signing then? Lol but wait, what does PL's perceived tactical limitations have to do with anything? Do you know the exact reason he was bought? No, you can only speculate, and thus can't make sweeping statements as to why he was bought and whether or not he was a good buy so early into his Villa career. The context has everything to do with it because that is the post you decided to reply to. Regardless of whether you don't think possession statistics count for much, that doesn't change the validy of my original reply to a poster who believed we had better possession statistics last season under Lambert then we did under McLeish when this isn't the case. As I've said already, judgements on playing style are subjective. I don't see much improvement with the football played at home under Lambert, you clearly do. Regarding Kozak, it isn't speculation at all. From the mouth of Paul Lambert: ...we need somebody like him as we only have Christian Benteke really as a main target man. “He’ll take that burden off Christian and he’ll add greatly to what we’ve got... So firstly he is seen as the same type of player by the manager and secondly he has been brought in to 'take the burden' off Benteke (i.e. be his understudy). Now considering that we already had quite a few strikers here, why would we desperately (we had been chasing him all summer according to Lambert) need an understudy for Benteke? The only reason, as many have alluded to, is to be able to play the same system in Benteke's absence. Thus the fact that Lambert feels he can only play with a 'target-man' in the team is a pointer of tactical limitation. Finally, my views on Kozak as a player are well known and you can check them out in his thread if you wish. I stand by everything I've said about him. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong. I disagree that it's subjective that the 2 managers differ in style, like at all. It's not about the possession we don't have, but rather what we do when we have it. With AM, the concept of attack was foreign to us. Under Lambert, sure we don't keep much of the ball, but we are much more forward thinking and progressive, and don't play for 0-0 draws. Or have you forgotten the days of us playing 6 defenders + Heskey as a winger and protecting 1-0 deficits? We never got battered by any team under him, but the 6-1 result last year would never have been possible, not in a million years. So I think it's unfair and borderline insulting to liken PL's tenure to that of his predecessor. Fair enough on the Lambert quote. I still don't think however that it implies a lack of tactical nous, seems a very cynical way of looking at it. Personally, I think it was a good movet. Last season we finally found a winning formula of sorts with the 4-3-3 (of course it's not exactly going swimmingly at the moment), and in the event that we lost the big fella to injury, we'd have someone to come in and slot straight into our style of play. None of our other strikers can fit into the role Benteke does in our system. Every team has a go-to formula, why change it and risk unsettling our run of good form? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 On the Lambert quote, all Lambert said was Benteke is the only target man he has at the club and that he felt he needed another. He has then taken this quote and enhanced into Isa's version of what Lambert thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The results are unforgivable - I am not going to give Lambert and easier time than I gave Houllier or Mcleish. - That said I do have hope that Lambert can progress and in future my build us a better villa team. I had no hope that either Houllier or Mcleish would do that. I think Lambert just dropped a few clangers in last summers transfers - thats set him back 12 months (all IMO of Course) I don't understand how you can write off a bunch of players so early. If I recall right you've been saying this since about September. Why can't players be given a season at least before being written off as "clangers"? Even a whole season can sometimes not be enough (e.g. El Ahmadi). Youre right some players take longer to settle - what I am looking for is some spark \evidence that they have done it at there previous clubs - a lot of the players purchased were only mediocre in a lesser league. But with regards to 'clangers' I am talking more about about the positions he has leave unstrentghed or short - for me CB + AM - should have taken priority over Kozac and Tonev. Thats not to judge those players directly - but I just feel there were bigger holes to be plugged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The results are unforgivable - I am not going to give Lambert and easier time than I gave Houllier or Mcleish. - That said I do have hope that Lambert can progress and in future my build us a better villa team. I had no hope that either Houllier or Mcleish would do that. I think Lambert just dropped a few clangers in last summers transfers - thats set him back 12 months (all IMO of Course) as in this seasons results. is the opposition not taken into account? Well we lost to Newcastle at home - which makes me think that West Ham and Cardiff may not be the cakewalk some think......we shall see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Pah (to all this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) The results are unforgivable - I am not going to give Lambert and easier time than I gave Houllier or Mcleish. - That said I do have hope that Lambert can progress and in future my build us a better villa team. I had no hope that either Houllier or Mcleish would do that. I think Lambert just dropped a few clangers in last summers transfers - thats set him back 12 months (all IMO of Course) I don't understand how you can write off a bunch of players so early. If I recall right you've been saying this since about September. Why can't players be given a season at least before being written off as "clangers"? Even a whole season can sometimes not be enough (e.g. El Ahmadi). Youre right some players take longer to settle - what I am looking for is some spark \evidence that they have done it at there previous clubs - a lot of the players purchased were only mediocre in a lesser league. But with regards to 'clangers' I am talking more about about the positions he has leave unstrentghed or short - for me CB + AM - should have taken priority over Kozac and Tonev. Thats not to judge those players directly - but I just feel there were bigger holes to be plugged. Can't see why you think we'd need another centre back. He brought Okre and we unlucklily lost him, Clark has been one of the stand out players so far and Vlaar has been ever present since his calf strain which was a far while ago. Baker is also there and Lowton and Herd at a big push can play CB so you are essentially wasting a limited budget on a needless CB. AM all day long, he just didn't have the funds. Edited October 29, 2013 by villan_007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The results are unforgivable - I am not going to give Lambert and easier time than I gave Houllier or Mcleish. - That said I do have hope that Lambert can progress and in future my build us a better villa team. I had no hope that either Houllier or Mcleish would do that. I think Lambert just dropped a few clangers in last summers transfers - thats set him back 12 months (all IMO of Course) I don't understand how you can write off a bunch of players so early. If I recall right you've been saying this since about September. Why can't players be given a season at least before being written off as "clangers"? Even a whole season can sometimes not be enough (e.g. El Ahmadi). Youre right some players take longer to settle - what I am looking for is some spark \evidence that they have done it at there previous clubs - a lot of the players purchased were only mediocre in a lesser league. But with regards to 'clangers' I am talking more about about the positions he has leave unstrentghed or short - for me CB + AM - should have taken priority over Kozac and Tonev. Thats not to judge those players directly - but I just feel there were bigger holes to be plugged. What they did at their previous clubs is pretty much irrelevant. Some players do well at one club and then poorly at the next and vice versa. Benteke came from a "lesser" league but that hasn't stopped him being nothing short of magnificent. As for the positions, I don't really see any evidence of a "clanger" there. Prior to Okore's injury we had 4 natural first team CBs which is about what most clubs have. We all would've liked an AM but presumably there was no one we could get that was both somebody Lambert wanted and was in our kind of price range. If we had managed to shift some more of the deadwood we may have seen something on that front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The results are unforgivable - I am not going to give Lambert and easier time than I gave Houllier or Mcleish. - That said I do have hope that Lambert can progress and in future my build us a better villa team. I had no hope that either Houllier or Mcleish would do that. I think Lambert just dropped a few clangers in last summers transfers - thats set him back 12 months (all IMO of Course) I don't understand how you can write off a bunch of players so early. If I recall right you've been saying this since about September. Why can't players be given a season at least before being written off as "clangers"? Even a whole season can sometimes not be enough (e.g. El Ahmadi). Youre right some players take longer to settle - what I am looking for is some spark \evidence that they have done it at there previous clubs - a lot of the players purchased were only mediocre in a lesser league. But with regards to 'clangers' I am talking more about about the positions he has leave unstrentghed or short - for me CB + AM - should have taken priority over Kozac and Tonev. Thats not to judge those players directly - but I just feel there were bigger holes to be plugged. Can't see why you think we'd need another centre back. He brought Okre and we unlucklily lost him, Clark has been one of the stand out players so far and Vlaar has been ever present since his calf strain which was a far while ago. Baker is also there and Lowton and Herd at a big push can play CB so you are essentially wasting a limited budget on a needless CB. AM all day long, he just didn't have the funds. Mmmm. What if he hadn't purchased Kozak, Tonev and Helenius? That would have given him just over 7m to play with. I have noted posters stating on a regular basis that Lambert is very good in the transfer market by not paying a lot for good players. With 7m in his pocket and a culmination of the aforementioned player's wages why could he not have with the help of his scouting network signed an up and coming AM for 7m or less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Because there would be holes elsewhere in the squad? Kozak was a necessary purchase as we have no backup for Benteke. Tonev was a necessity, no two ways about it. We needed a wide player. That leaves us with Helenius, who cost around 1M. Guess you can say he was a bit of a luxury buy. Still not enough to get an AM I'd reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The results are unforgivable - I am not going to give Lambert and easier time than I gave Houllier or Mcleish. - That said I do have hope that Lambert can progress and in future my build us a better villa team. I had no hope that either Houllier or Mcleish would do that. I think Lambert just dropped a few clangers in last summers transfers - thats set him back 12 months (all IMO of Course) I don't understand how you can write off a bunch of players so early. If I recall right you've been saying this since about September. Why can't players be given a season at least before being written off as "clangers"? Even a whole season can sometimes not be enough (e.g. El Ahmadi). Youre right some players take longer to settle - what I am looking for is some spark \evidence that they have done it at there previous clubs - a lot of the players purchased were only mediocre in a lesser league. But with regards to 'clangers' I am talking more about about the positions he has leave unstrentghed or short - for me CB + AM - should have taken priority over Kozac and Tonev. Thats not to judge those players directly - but I just feel there were bigger holes to be plugged. Can't see why you think we'd need another centre back. He brought Okre and we unlucklily lost him, Clark has been one of the stand out players so far and Vlaar has been ever present since his calf strain which was a far while ago. Baker is also there and Lowton and Herd at a big push can play CB so you are essentially wasting a limited budget on a needless CB. AM all day long, he just didn't have the funds. Mmmm. What if he hadn't purchased Kozak, Tonev and Helenius? That would have given him just over 7m to play with. I have noted posters stating on a regular basis that Lambert is very good in the transfer market by not paying a lot for good players. With 7m in his pocket and a culmination of the aforementioned player's wages why could he not have with the help of his scouting network signed an up and coming AM for 7m or less? I think he looks at it in the long term. He doesn't have the money for his top targets at the moment, so looks for players to build a squad with, like the ones you have mentioned. I think Okre was his top target and he got him, also think Kozak was another but he didn't expect to have to throw him in as early as he needed to. We could all probably agree that at the moment we have a half decent squad but it's missing those few gems on top of that. I hope that come Jan and the summer window he'll get to add further to the squad with the better quality the squad needs. At present if we added a top AM, natural wide forward and amybe another midfielder then we start to look a decent outfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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