CI Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I think whatever way you cut it, we'd be **** without Benteke. He was a great signing. The other 13m, could that have been spent better? Possibly. The 2 fullbacks maybe couldve seen that money spent on a DM instead and persevere with the 2 fuckups we've banished instead for the season Freezing out Hutton & Warnock is/was very stubborn from Lambert unless there's other issues we don't know about Bennett Lichaj and Stevens are not PL level and I doubt ever will be Even Lowton has started to look dreadful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I agree we are shit, and it might be time for Lambert to go simply because we need something to change. The real question, however, is how many more managers are we going to blame before we realize the players just are not good enough? Its the managers that have purchased those players you deem not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Oh oh, Morpheus and mantis have engaged ;-) And they're off!!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 What £20m myth? and yeah 21 players, 7 of whom were ever good enough to wear the shirt and 3 of those I actually miss when I think of it. but what's the point? you want Heskey, Beye and Harewood back? Harewood? He's not even on that list .. But to answer your question .. No. i don't want the ones on your list back. My point was that whether the players on that list were good, bad, indifferent, crap or whatever is irrelevant.. & obviously Heskey, & Beye were among the worst on that list as you well know, but the fact still remains that the squad was decimated & we were in desperate need of extra bodies in pre season. The squad was desperately threadbare when Lambert arrived & a budget of 20m was nowhere near enough to fill all those holes with quality players & that i actually thought he had done Ok in this regard. So do you disagree with that? What i meant by "Myth" was that i have lost count of the posts on here claiming Randy had been generous by giving Lambert this 20m transfer kitty. It is often implied that this is in some way a further personal investment on Randy's part taking his personal investment to up to 250m etc when it is in fact just money generated by transfers..So the Myth i am getting at is the Myth that this was an additional personal investment of some sort by our owner. Randy has indeed invested a lot of money in the club of course he has, but i don't see how reinvesting money generated by player sales can be classed in the same light. Lambert was given 20m yes but he was also given a very threadbare squad which was desperately short in numbers. He inherited a squad that had survived by the skin of it's teeth last season & had been decimated still further since then with the losses of Collins, Cuellar & Petrov amongst others. Yes the quality of many of those sold/released was poor anyway but we did have some "Stars" & established Internationals in that lot too which have not been replaced... So yeah i'd prefer a number of those back here for sure although thats never going to happen obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 If you look back in the threads Mantis there was a debate on how our win against Man City in the cup would push us on in the league. It hasn't happened and that is what i was referring to. The possible 'inept showing' against Newcastle in my opinion will have nothing to do with our cup form either as we have been as inept in the league as in the cup competitions. So you don't believe in momentum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I appreciate thee is a need to have a o at the manager and some of the criticism I may even have sympathy with, but to suggest tha Mcduff is the better manager is ludicrous for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I appreciate thee is a need to have a o at the manager and some of the criticism I may even have sympathy with, but to suggest tha Mcduff is the better manager is ludicrous for me not a better manager, but perhaps more aware of what he had to work with. damage limitation definitely wasn't pretty under him, but it looks like it was the right approach, sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 clearly, given how ineffective bent has been. if we hadnt had benteke we'd have about 4 points Bent has been ineffective due to the way in which Lambert has set the team up and i think where CI is coming from is that we already had Bent, Agbonlahor and Weimann so the 7m we spent on Benteke could have indeed been spent on a decent young winger such as Snodgrass to supply Bent or someone like Diame on a free with some of the 7m attributed to Diame's wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 So in your fairy tale, third grade world the 17th best team ever year is exactly the same quality as the 17th place team all the years before? There is no chance the quality of the league improved, thus making a squad that was barely good enough to avoid relegation not good enough to avoid relegation? Well that was a clever response, well done. Of course the quality of the league improves but Lambert has also added players to his squad replacing players who kept us up or treating others like shit. But yeah if you want to argue its all about everyone else improving go ahead. Last season was put down to the shit manager not the players, now all of a sudden it's all the players fault. Nothing to do with poor signings and awful management then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I appreciate thee is a need to have a o at the manager and some of the criticism I may even have sympathy with, but to suggest tha Mcduff is the better manager is ludicrous for me Won a cup with blues Finished higher in the prem than lambert has Kept us up last year. This lambert team looks a lot worse than last years Mcleish team and that has a lot to do with Lambert's signings and the tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Almost all of this is so easy to say in hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Bent has been ineffective due to the way in which Lambert has set the team up and i think where CI is coming from is that we already had Bent, Agbonlahor and Weimann so the 7m we spent on Benteke could have indeed been spent on a decent young winger such as Snodgrass to supply Bent or someone like Diame on a free with some of the 7m attributed to Diame's wages. Yes, that's was the point I was trying to make Morpheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Almost all of this is so easy to say in hindsight. I think you'll find a few of us who expressed a lot of worry about our transfer activity in the summer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Won a cup with blues Finished higher in the prem than lambert has Kept us up last year. This lambert team looks a lot worse than last years Mcleish team and that has a lot to do with Lambert's signings and the tactics.so last years villa team was better than this? Was it better than last years Norwich team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I don't recall anyone saying that it would push us up the league, just that cup games weren't irrelevant to the league, which they're not. I think you know as well as i that the reference was made previously in threads Mantis that doing well in the cups would increase confidence and our performances would benefit from that thereby pushing us on in the league. I have no wish to be this afternoon's entertainment for both 'pacbuddies' and 'CI' so rather than quoting previous posts again to prove my point with you i really just couldn't be bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I think you know as well as i that the reference was made previously in threads Mantis that doing well in the cups would increase confidence and our performances would benefit from that thereby pushing us on in the league. I have no wish to be this afternoon's entertainment for both 'pacbuddies' and 'CI' so rather than quoting previous posts again to prove my point with you i really just couldn't be bothered. Come on Morpheus, I need entertaining and cheering up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 so last years villa team was better than this? Was it better than last years Norwich team? What are you using as evidence to sugges this teams year is better than last? Results? Goals scored? Goals conceded? Goal difference? Average points per game? Last years Norwich was better and Mcleish was able to take blues higher than lambert was able to take norwich. I think Mcleish is absolutely shocking, but to laugh it off that lambert is clearly better is ridiculous and is based on very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 So you don't believe in momentum? Concerning us this season, no. It also not a given that if you are doing well in cup competitions that form is reflected in the league. Birmingham won a cup but were relegated in the same season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 not a better manager, but perhaps more aware of what he had to work with. damage limitation definitely wasn't pretty under him, but it looks like it was the right approach, sadly Depends if you think short term or long term though, surely? Villa have to sort this out - you can put off trouble season by season but we never looked like we were going anywhere for a while. The whole place needs a massive shake up and I think it is happening. The worst signing of the summer does look like a McLeish one, unfortunately. Holman's not much better than a Hutton etc., and probably on a fairly decent wage - trouble is he's not very good at kicking a football, in the sense he always loses possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Come on Morpheus, I need entertaining and cheering up! No chance mate. Been there, got the teashirt and its time for someone else to have a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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