joey55 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I think the biggest issue you face with Lambert is that he doesn't give you any advantage in the transfer market over your rivals. If you look at Fulham from Saturday, they had 3 players from the Bundesliga who have real quality, in Petric, Dejegah and Riether. They are top 8 standard Prem players, yet cost nothing and aren't going to be on high wages. But Jol knows the Bundesliga as well as he does the Eredivise and the Prem. All clubs have scouts that will cover lots of leagues, but having a manager that has a real in depth knowledge of a couple of other good leagues and is well known to the players in those leagues, is a huge advantage. I know Lambert played in Germany for a year, but that was long ago and it's not the same as having managed there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 We've got Michael Henke, former Bayern Munich and Boruissa Dortmund assistant coach, as head of European scouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey55 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If he's good at his job you should see a benefit from him then. There are a lot of good player in the Bundesliga who aren't necessarily start names, but offer real value. I don't know if having a scout is enough though, as often players like to know it's the manager himself that is driving the deal and ideally know the manager to some degree. I don't think foreign managers are better tactically and in terms of coaching, as most seem to, but I do think they often bring other advantages, particularly in the transfer market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Michael Henke is quite a big name in Germany isn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey55 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Michael Henke is quite a big name in Germany isn't he? I lived in Hamburg for 3 years and to be honest I don't think I've ever heard of him. According to Wiki he was assistant at Bayern and coach at Kaiserslautern when I was there, so I may have come across him and forgotten. I suppose it would be like a German living here and knowing who Brian Kidd is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 At least PL would know how to win that league. But I have every faith in Lambert, and once we get a rub of the green, the we'll be fine and steady. Someone else on VT also advocated keeping Lambert even if he relegated us. I am actually dumfounded at such a statement. If McLeish was sacked while still keeping us in the Premiership why keep the manager who relegated us? You'd be rewarding failure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Someone else on VT also advocated keeping Lambert even if he relegated us. I am actually dumfounded at such a statement. If McLeish was sacked while still keeping us in the Premiership why keep the manager who relegated us? You'd be rewarding failure! No. you'd be trying to promote some sort of stability. 3 managers in 3 years is not stable at all. I'd rather we not make it 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I think the biggest issue you face with Lambert is that he doesn't give you any advantage in the transfer market over your rivals. If you look at Fulham from Saturday, they had 3 players from the Bundesliga who have real quality, in Petric, Dejegah and Riether. They are top 8 standard Prem players, yet cost nothing and aren't going to be on high wages. But Jol knows the Bundesliga as well as he does the Eredivise and the Prem. All clubs have scouts that will cover lots of leagues, but having a manager that has a real in depth knowledge of a couple of other good leagues and is well known to the players in those leagues, is a huge advantage. I know Lambert played in Germany for a year, but that was long ago and it's not the same as having managed there. I actually agree with this and it is one good reason why we should have got Jol at the club before he went to Fulham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 No. you'd be trying to promote some sort of stability. 3 managers in 3 years is not stable at all. I'd rather we not make it 4. What, the kind of stability that gets you relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 What, the kind of stability that gets you relegated. No. The kind of stability that involves trying to get a working system. You can't expect anything if we just hire a new manager and sack him a year later. New managers want to install their type of Football, we're now on our 4th manager who has a different plan again. If that involves us going down with Lambert, but then him getting his system working and bringing us straight back up then so be it. Don't get me wrong I don't want to get relegated. I just don't think sacking and hiring managers left right and centre is going to do us any good at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 How similar are we to England fans. Were still blaming the managers. When are people going to get it. Bar some games under O'Neill (who was a genius at making poor players good - step forward steve Guppy) the football at Villa Park in the main part has been absolute horse shit for years. We continually blame the manager (who of course has responsibilities) but when your working with poor players (some of which they have bought of course although in this case its too early to tell with Lamberts signings), or working with players who continually act like arseholes on/off the field - its almost impossible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted October 22, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 22, 2012 What, the kind of stability that gets you relegated. so you are blind to the difference in football being played? or you genuinely think there is no difference keeping PL over mcleish after a hypothetical relegation? i'm sure if you think really hard you could see why some people (me included) would want to keep PL even if we went down. think past redknapp, dempsey and berbatov for a minute and try and arrive somewhere close enough to reality to see it makes sense I actually agree with this and it is one good reason why we should have got Jol at the club before he went to Fulham. Jol was a done deal to fulham a year before he went. just no chance of him coming, when we hired AM maybe he was gettable, after that no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I can see the argument for keeping lambert if relegated but I don't think he'd deserve it. And I seriously doubt he'd be able to get us back to top 6 in the future if he's not capable of keeping us up this year. People keep stating how much better it is under lambert than Mcleish but results are just as poor and I think, although the football and approach to games is different, we're still boring to watch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted October 22, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 22, 2012 ...the football at Villa Park in the main part has been absolute horse shit for years. so true!!! you have to go back to the 90s for some decent footy from us to be honest, and even then it didn't really last long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Last good football i can really remember was in Oleary's first season, before that it was Little's first 2 seasons. MONs style was exiting against certain types of teams but was awful against teams who sat back. My first season ticket was in 1992/93 season, i thought football would be like that all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troglodyte Posted October 22, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 22, 2012 I know Lambert played in Germany for a year, but that was long ago and it's not the same as having managed there. He also did his coaching badges in Germany. From what I've read, he's very much influenced by German football, stemming from his successful year at Dortmund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 No. The kind of stability that involves trying to get a working system. You can't expect anything if we just hire a new manager and sack him a year later. New managers want to install their type of Football, we're now on our 4th manager who has a different plan again. If that involves us going down with Lambert, but then him getting his system working and bringing us straight back up then so be it. Don't get me wrong I don't want to get relegated. I just don't think sacking and hiring managers left right and centre is going to do us any good at all. No i agree changing managers constantly will not be beneficial to the club but then again one reason for chopping managers so much is that since O'Neill we have got every appointment wrong. Lambert still hasn't instilled any confidence in me yet that he is now the right appointment, but i sincerely hope he proves me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 so you are blind to the difference in football being played? or you genuinely think there is no difference keeping PL over mcleish after a hypothetical relegation? i'm sure if you think really hard you could see why some people (me included) would want to keep PL even if we went down. think past redknapp, dempsey and berbatov for a minute and try and arrive somewhere close enough to reality to see it makes sense Jol was a done deal to fulham a year before he went. just no chance of him coming, when we hired AM maybe he was gettable, after that no chance. Not blind at all to the football being played. It is dire shite with no penetration so hows that for reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 No i agree changing managers constantly will not be beneficial to the club but then again one reason for chopping managers so much is that since O'Neill we have got every appointment wrong. Lambert still hasn't instilled any confidence in me yet that he is now the right appointment, but i sincerely hope he proves me wrong. Think you will find, we also got the O'neill appointment wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If we were relegated he'd have to go I think, all things considered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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