Kingfisher Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I like him, I think he's been one of our best players thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 8, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2012 I die a little inside everytime I see someone condemn short passes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Where have I referred to him being a "highlights" player? You're deluded if you think there is a comparison with Barry. Barry was much stronger on the ball, very strong in the tackle, often played a pinpoint pass, could make driving runs etc - he was not a flair player but KEA isnt in the same league. 85.5% pass rate is meaningless if 99% are them are 5-6 yards. As regards my claim that he loses possession, frequently was the wrong word but I have seen all the games this season and he has lost the ball on a number of critical occassions. Rather than claiming I am talking "frankly bollocks" why do you think he is "great" & howabout some examples of his greatness I think the opposite, I think he doesn't lose possession in silly areas and wins back the ball in crucial areas. Delph is the player I've seen losing the ball by allowing himself to be pick pocketed, or playing an ambitious or blind pass, when several of the team are ahead of him. El Ahmadi is much better in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted October 8, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2012 I die a little inside everytime I see someone condemn short passes You miss my point. I am not saying short passes are wrong, they are obviously vital to keep possession but at some point someone like KEA has to play a more penetrating pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 8, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2012 Does he? Genuine question. In my opinion that absolutely is not his job. He might have to do more of it at the moment, being as he lacks a creative, more attacking partner. But I See his role as a ball winner, and the pivot of the team between defence and attack. The man that the defenders get the ball too (as opposed to hoofing it) and he then distributes it to whoever he can. he's not there to thread defence splitting passes into the striker's feet. Do you see Sergio Busquets making those kind of passes? Rarely. He's capable of it, but he doesn't do it. Win the ball, give it to a team mate. Maybe the problem is we're expecting KEA to do something that he's not there for. (I'm not stating this as a fact by the way. I haven't seen enough, I don't think any of us have, of KEA, especially with an accomplished midfield partner, to judge what his long term role in the team will be. Those are just my thoughts.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I think he's been pretty good. It's Delph who is the bigger issue for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Does he? Genuine question. In my opinion that absolutely is not his job. He might have to do more of it at the moment, being as he lacks a creative, more attacking partner. But I See his role as a ball winner, and the pivot of the team between defence and attack. The man that the defenders get the ball too (as opposed to hoofing it) and he then distributes it to whoever he can. he's not there to thread defence splitting passes into the striker's feet. Do you see Sergio Busquets making those kind of passes? Rarely. He's capable of it, but he doesn't do it. Win the ball, give it to a team mate. Maybe the problem is we're expecting KEA to do something that he's not there for. (I'm not stating this as a fact by the way. I haven't seen enough, I don't think any of us have, of KEA, especially with an accomplished midfield partner, to judge what his long term role in the team will be. Those are just my thoughts.) I think it is a fact. We're playing 4-2-3-1 and variations on it and the two are there to sit. KEA likes getting forward and wants to judging by one of his interviews, but he is doing the job he's been given, and that is to sit and defend and retain possession. The three, which has been Bannan - Ireland - Holman or Gabby - Holman - Albrighton at times have been poor IMO. Holman is all action, I like him, Gabby can make chances from time to time. But Ireland has been a huge disappointment, Bannan quite average. Then we get on to the full backs. They're still nervy, Lowton's positional sense is poor at times, his forays forward tentative. Bennett it settling slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 For me he is neither one thing or the other. He's definitely not a player who will dominate central midfield with either penetrating passes or bone crushing tackles and therefore he is one reason why our midfield is so weak. Not dynamic enough either way and another one of Lambert's poor signings when we were actually crying out for a player who could be described as the exact opposite of above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted October 8, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2012 Does he? Genuine question. In my opinion that absolutely is not his job. He might have to do more of it at the moment, being as he lacks a creative, more attacking partner. But I See his role as a ball winner, and the pivot of the team between defence and attack. The man that the defenders get the ball too (as opposed to hoofing it) and he then distributes it to whoever he can. he's not there to thread defence splitting passes into the striker's feet. Do you see Sergio Busquets making those kind of passes? Rarely. He's capable of it, but he doesn't do it. Win the ball, give it to a team mate. Maybe the problem is we're expecting KEA to do something that he's not there for. (I'm not stating this as a fact by the way. I haven't seen enough, I don't think any of us have, of KEA, especially with an accomplished midfield partner, to judge what his long term role in the team will be. Those are just my thoughts.) If that is the case it is not surprising that we have problems. Who is supposed to make the "defence splitting pass" or to make the forward run and pass into the channels then? From what I have seen during the last two games, it is Delph that is playing the deeper "link man" role picking up the ball from defence, so I would have thought KEA is supposed to be more the advanced MF player.I reiterate that I do not have a problem with short passing but given that we are set up fairly narrow, I would have thought that KEA should be pushing on, playing throughballs etc Maybe you are right in that it isnt KEA's game but in the absence of Ireland someone has to play that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 8, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2012 Well your last sentence is exactly what I mean. He may well have to go and play that role because of a lack of anyone else to do it. Ireland would be the natural player to play the attacking role (and it's no surprise that ireland has been on the pitch for our best performances, imo) and I'd expect to see him straight back into the team when he's fit. Bannan I assume was also supposed to play that role, but he just hasn't performed so far this season (again, imo) So yeah, KEA isn't making enough penetrative passes to be playing that position. But if that isn't his position, then is that his fault? For me he is neither one thing or the other. He's definitely not a player who will dominate central midfield with either penetrating passes or bone crushing tackles and therefore he is one reason why our midfield is so weak. Not dynamic enough either way and another one of Lambert's poor signings when we were actually crying out for a player who could be described as the exact opposite of above. We were crying out for both. We've had a shite defence for 2 seasons now, and we lost our only good DM to a horrible illness, probably permanently. You don't think getting in another CM to help solidify that leaky defence was high on the agenda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 How is El Ahmadi a poor signing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 8, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2012 How is El Ahmadi a poor signing? It wouldn't be VT if we weren't writing off signings after a handful of games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 If that is the case it is not surprising that we have problems. Who is supposed to make the "defence splitting pass" or to make the forward run and pass into the channels then? From what I have seen during the last two games, it is Delph that is playing the deeper "link man" role picking up the ball from defence, so I would have thought KEA is supposed to be more the advanced MF player.I reiterate that I do not have a problem with short passing but given that we are set up fairly narrow, I would have thought that KEA should be pushing on, playing throughballs etc Maybe you are right in that it isnt KEA's game but in the absence of Ireland someone has to play that role. The killer through ball game isn't one that we're playing at the moment - last game the attacking midfielders were Holman and Albrighton, with Gabby playing as a support striker to Benteke as target man. The main tactic we had was to use Benteke as the target man, then he would allow the other attacking players to get into the game - whether in the air or to his feet, back to goal so he can hold it up and play somebody in. We attempted one through ball all match - that isn't what we were looking to do, so you're basically criticising KEA for not playing the way you want rather than the way he's been told to. KEA's contribution relative to his role in the team has been very good - he's done what he's been asked to do very well. If you're criticising aspects of his game that he hasn't been asked to play, then you need to look at Lambert instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 KEA isn't an attacking midfielder, he's more of a holding player. Unfortunately because he has decent technique some on here thought he could play the advanced role, but it's simply not apparent that he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 If KEA and Delph are both going to sit deep, then we need a 3rd CM to push up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 KEA isn't an attacking midfielder, he's more of a holding player. Unfortunately because he has decent technique some on here thought he could play the advanced role, but it's simply not apparent that he can. He clearly isn't being asked to play that role though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 He clearly isn't being asked to play that role though. I know, I'm arguing against those on here that say he should be playing that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I know, I'm arguing against those on here that say he should be playing that role. I don't think they've got that far in their reasoning yet tbf. They're in the 'why isn't he doing the stuff I want him to do' stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr600rr Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 If KEA and Delph are both going to sit deep, then we need a 3rd CM to push up.. stephen ireland step forward.. hes injured but come on lets look at si,had he delivered from midfield as the players before him? (barry/milner) NO. i was watching stoke play liverpool,stoke midfield look like men to our boys. its a hard fact but stoke will not be messing around in the bottom 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 KEA is filling the Petrov role, another playing that was seriously underrated on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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