Chindie Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 Next month the Dutch parliament is expected to approve a ban on halal and kosher methods of slaughtering animals for food. Those who proposed the ban say it is simply an issue of animal welfare, but it received strong support from the right-wing Freedom Party. Many see it as a violation of their religious freedom, and among the Jewish community it is a worrying echo of a similar ban brought in by Hitler. The Beeb ...hmm. I'm not really a fan of that method of slaughter so I'm not against getting rid of it (it ultimately doesn't make much of a difference to the product either), but thats asking for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 Agree with Chindie. Minefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 Good. Disgusting way to end a life. Specially when the life is being taken for your own personal greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 is this the same party being idiots cracking down on drugs again? backward arseholes. depends on whether the animal feels anything. don't they do that practise as they believe it's quick and harmless? or not? I thought we use bolt guns on larger animals brains now which completely owns them instantly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 is this the same party being idiots cracking down on drugs again? backward arseholes. depends on whether the animal feels anything. don't they do that practise as they believe it's quick and harmless? or not? I thought we use bolt guns on larger animals brains now which completely owns them instantly Yeh the bolt thing is instant and painless (supposedly) Halal and/or kosher (correct me if I'm wrong someone) involves hanging the animal upside down and slitting their throat so the blood drains out. Unpleasant and I would imagine certainly not instant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I thought they sever the connection to the brain too and don't just cut the throat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 Maybe. I'm no expert. Happily corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 Halal and/or kosher (correct me if I'm wrong someone) involves hanging the animal upside down and slitting their throat so the blood drains out. I'm pretty sure you're correct and it's horrific! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Ḏabīḥah (ذَبِيْحَة) is the prescribed method of slaughtering all animals excluding fish and most sea-life per Islamic law. This method of slaughtering animals consists of using a well sharpened knife to make a swift, deep incision that cuts the front of the throat, the carotid artery, wind pipe and jugular veins but leaves the spinal cord intact.[2] The head of an animal that is slaughtered using halal methods is aligned with the Qiblah. doesn't sound as though it is. Bolt to the head wins I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Just had a quick Wiki search for Halal and Kosher practices. Pretty horrific on both accounts, though I think Kosher just about trumps Halal in the unreasonable stakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 Bolt to the head wins I think. It's a no-brainer really :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 This comes under the same category as foxhunting for me. I have an opinion about it, which has more to do with my views on religion and politics than any matters of animal cruelty. But ultimately, it doesn't really bother me that much either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 This comes under the same category as foxhunting for me. I have an opinion about it, which has more to do with my views on religion and politics than any matters of animal cruelty. But ultimately, it doesn't really bother me that much either way. Just out of curiosity, why doesnt it bother you that animals are being slaughtered in a horrible way? Do you think it's acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 7, 2011 Author VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 The bolt to the head doesn't kill the animal, it stuns it, knocks it out. The animal is slaughtered by blood draining, usually the throat is cut and hung. Kosher and Halal do pretty much the same thing but the animal is aware of it's demise. Then theres some mumbo jumbo stuff, but ultimately the only difference really is that we knock the animal out first. Pigs are usually electro stunned, same with fowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 on the subject of controlling foxes, the banning of foxhunting hasn't done much to make it more humane. I know plenty of farmers who have to now shoot them, and quite a few don't end in head shots put it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 This comes under the same category as foxhunting for me. I have an opinion about it, which has more to do with my views on religion and politics than any matters of animal cruelty. But ultimately, it doesn't really bother me that much either way. Just out of curiosity, why doesnt it bother you that animals are being slaughtered in a horrible way? Do you think it's acceptable?I don't particularly like it, but animal welfare is not my highest priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 The bolt to the head doesn't kill the animal, it stuns it, knocks it out. The animal is slaughtered by blood draining, usually the throat is cut and hung. Kosher and Halal do pretty much the same thing but the animal is aware of it's demise. Then theres some mumbo jumbo stuff, but ultimately the only difference really is that we knock the animal out first. Pigs are usually electro stunned, same with fowl. Mechanical (gunshot) This method is approved for cattle, calves, sheep, swine, goats, horses, mules, and other equines. The gun is used to render the animal immediately unconscious (and presumably dead) before being bled. do we not do that then? like a hole punch to the head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 7, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 I guess maybe the bolt can't guarantee death. Just like you could get shot in the head and survive. So it "stuns" them. But my guess would be a bolt to the head would kill on a lot of occasions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 7, 2011 Author VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2011 You can't use a bullet to slaughter domesticated animals in an abbatoir for public consumption IIRC in this country. Captive bolt gun fires a small rod into the skull which completely knocks the animal out, probably does some brain damage as well to be honest, but doesn't kill it. The kill comes from bleeding out from a cut, they usually cut the main atery in the throat, smaller animals iirc get the aorta cut in the chest via the neck IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 It's not a guaranteed knock out either, there are plenty occasions when another bolt or two are needed (which then takes you back into the realms of cruelty). Not that that'll stop me from enjoying my lovely hunk of steak at the end of the day, nosiree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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