b6bloke Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AValon Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Don't see what he can do to turn things round here. As many have identified, he's lost on several counts, not least how to motivate a team of professional footballers who would'nt have looked out of place turning out for Tamworth yesterday. Come the latter half of the season Villa Park is going to look fairly sparse, if it is'nt beginning to do so already. Randy Lerner, if he as astute a businessman as his billionaire status would have us believe, better stop the rot soon or the vultures will definitely be circling!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 The vote of confidence must be imminent surely ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parisvilla Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 McNob: 'the goals we conceded were shocking'. No they weren't.... we concede those kind of goals every week and you havn't sorted them out despite your sole attribute supposedly being organising a defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieGriffin Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I think McLeish should at least be afforded the next two transfer windows to move on some of the dross/unwanted - Collins, Heskey, Ireland etc, and bring in some more of his own players. He's still working with a squad that isnt his own bar Given, N'Zogbia and Hutton (who admittedly rank good, indifferent and poor respectively thus far). Perhaps its the optimist in me that makes me think he will sort the current shit out if he's given the time to do it, but there we are. Some of the on-field issues we're currently experiencing have been problems for years - squad depth, lack of basic defensive nous when defending set pieces (barring about 18 months under O'Neill), and a lack of guile when attacking. Im not sure whether people were expecting any realistically appointable manager to walk in and sort those issues out when the first issue is a financial one and the second and third ones are almost entirely down to the players at his disposal - you can teach them all you know, but if the player doesnt want to/cant do it then it isnt entirely the managers fault, and we arent in a position to go and dump the lot of them and bring in 7 new players. Some things like the ongoing baffling selection of Collins and Heskey ahead of Cuellar and Bannan, the mindset and tactics of the team is clearly all down to McLeish and there's no real defence to that - the negativity of his previous teams were the number one reason why I didnt want him here. We arent going to go down this year, and we arent going to make Europe either - whilst none of us want transitional seasons any more, we're living in different times than we were when Lerner got here and I dont see how stamping our feet about how we dont want this manager either is going to help our situation. I understand people are opposed to our manager, which is understandable - he wasnt the first choice of anyone apart from Lerner and Faulkner I would suggest - but the atmosphere is turning nasty and isnt helping anyone - largely as it isnt going to get people what they want, because the manager isnt going anywhere anytime soon barring the catastrophe of near (or, worse, actual) relegation. Whilst Im not suggesting that as supporters we just bend over and accept the situation, whinging and moaning on messageboards, the abomination that is twitter and whatever else is not conducive to a good atmosphere around the club, and in the long-term that will not be a good thing for Randy Lerner, Alex McLeish, you, me, or more importantly, Aston Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heystally! Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 McNob: 'the goals we conceded were shocking'. No they weren't.... we concede those kind of goals every week and you havn't sorted them out despite your sole attribute supposedly being organising a defence. But they were shocking goals to concede. Complete lack of organisation in our defence at set pieces today. Warnock overall was terrible, and not for the first time in the last few weeks. We just look like such a bad team. McLeish is consistently playing our players out of position. Heskey is not an attacking midfielder. Bannan is not a right winger. Just terrible decisions. And after playing long-ball football all season long with a 20-goals-a-season striker, the first time we play some passing football it's when he's injured. We looked clueless passing in midfield - no movement, no desire. It would have been perfect if we were two goals up but we weren't. Our two criteria to getting a manager were: 1) one who will be happy spending no money, and 2) one with Premier League experience. I just think we need to lose that second one. I'd much rather get a younger, ambitious manager from the Championship or League 1, someone to come in and use the players we have now but give them some energy, and a desire to play attractive football. Swansea did it with Martinez, and that has carried on with Rodgers. We need a full transition, write off this season and start building again, but with a manager who has a bright future, not just someone with Premier League experience who can steady a sinking ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDrums Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 The thought of this man staying here for two more transfer windows is seriously putting me off football completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyOne Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 McNob: 'the goals we conceded were shocking'. No they weren't.... we concede those kind of goals every week and you havn't sorted them out despite your sole attribute supposedly being organising a defence. But they were shocking goals to concede. Complete lack of organisation in our defence at set pieces today. Warnock overall was terrible, and not for the first time in the last few weeks. We just look like such a bad team. McLeish is consistently playing our players out of position. Heskey is not an attacking midfielder. Bannan is not a right winger. Just terrible decisions. And after playing long-ball football all season long with a 20-goals-a-season striker, the first time we play some passing football it's when he's injured. We looked clueless passing in midfield - no movement, no desire. It would have been perfect if we were two goals up but we weren't. Our two criteria to getting a manager were: 1) one who will be happy spending no money, and 2) one with Premier League experience. I just think we need to lose that second one. I'd much rather get a younger, ambitious manager from the Championship or League 1, someone to come in and use the players we have now but give them some energy, and a desire to play attractive football. Swansea did it with Martinez, and that has carried on with Rodgers. We need a full transition, write off this season and start building again, but with a manager who has a bright future, not just someone with Premier League experience who can steady a sinking ship. Thing is though AM has said the same about how the defending has been 'shocking' and 'clown quality' for weeks. Yet he doesn't change a thing. He won't change the defenders and he won't change the tactics. Nothing has improved at all from last season and that's unacceptable considering he has had the pre season to address it under his expertise of 'tightening the defence', even though I don't believe that myth under him. I agree with your last paragraph though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heystally! Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Thing is though AM has said the same about how the defending has been 'shocking' and 'clown quality' for weeks. Yet he doesn't change a thing. He won't change the defenders and he won't change the tactics. Nothing has improved at all from last season and that's unacceptable considering he has had the pre season to address it under his expertise of 'tightening the defence', even though I don't believe that myth under him. I agree with your last paragraph though. But he is right to say they were shocking goals. But I agree it seems as though he'll do very little to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 18, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 18, 2011 They were terrible but they weren't shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heystally! Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 They were terrible but they weren't shocking. By themselves, maybe terrible. But because even before today we had conceded more goals from corners than any other team, you'd have thought it'd be something we'd work on. But we then go and concede another two. For me, it takes it into the next bracket on the scale of shitness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyOne Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I don't see how they are shocking goals? It's the type of goals that players like Collins have given away so easily this season. It's not a shock at all to see us concede like that. I think we have conceded the most goals from corners this season. Probably last as well. AM has the power to fix it by addressing the issue and changing the defenders. He won't though because he would have done it by now and the fact he is desperate to keep Collins here (he wants to extend his contract for no logical reason) shows he is a farce at this club.. We'll see the same thing happen again and he'll no doubt say it was shocking again, again and again, while he still keeps the same rubbish defenders who can't defend setpieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 18, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 18, 2011 They were terrible but they weren't shocking. By themselves, maybe terrible. But because even before today we had conceded more goals from corners than any other team, you'd have thought it'd be something we'd work on. But we then go and concede another two. For me, it takes it into the next bracket on the scale of shitness. Fine I'm happy to call them worse than terrible but they simply weren't shocking because they were completely predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony_Tony_Daley Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 ....and we're now closer to narrowing down the word to describe Aston Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heystally! Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Ok, different definitions of shocking: shock·ing [shok-ing] Show IPA adjective 1. causing intense surprise, disgust, horror, etc. 2. very bad: shocking manners. I was using it in the latter sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 We have a shocking manager that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Superhuman qualities? :? Given is an excellent shot stopper. He's saved us points this season. Are you saying that Given isn't better than Guzan? Delph and Herd have made appearances but Herd has been much better. Herd has been picked ahead of Delph in more of the recent games that they've been made available, so I think it's perfectly fair to say that 4 current starters were unavailable. So am I too assume that you're one of the people who were at the game and booed at half time and at the end?It doesn't matter what good things Given has done, it doesn't changed the fact that he wouldn't have saved this game since he has not shown any ability to improve our defence vs set pieces nor would he have made the kind of once-in-a-season saves required to keep Liverpool's short range goals out. If you're going to say that Given would have changed the game, you're alleging that Guzan was at fault for the loss somehow. In what way was he? He just wasn't. Herd's marginal superiority over Delph doesn't change the fact that they are both cloggers who regularly give the ball away and don't change games by their own merit. So am I to assume you're one of the people who when things go badly, blame other fans who you don't think have a sufficiently positive attitude? What does it matter if I booed or not, the performance deserved it and we wouldn't have won if the fans had cheered and sung a song at HT either. So... Herd being better than Delph, Given being better than Guzan and Bent & Gabby being unavailable did not have a single impact on how we could play against Liverpool? Give it a rest mate. And to answer your question, no, I'm not one of those people. I just have an opinion, if that's okay with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I saw you try to justify the performance today, but your argument to keep McLeish fundamentally boils down to you do not want another manager given the fact we have had 2 in 18 months. That's allowed though, so I will continue. I don't want us to change manager again so soon. I can see us bringing in someone worse and someone who will feel the need to make further changes before he has his squad to work with. If we did sack McLeish, I'd love to see us bring in someone who can try to get us playing football, like Houllier tried. But I still don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. So I will get behind the team, I'll get behind the manager and I'll support the team the best I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heystally! Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 That's allowed though, so I will continue. I don't want us to change manager again so soon. I can see us bringing in someone worse and someone who will feel the need to make further changes before he has his squad to work with. If we did sack McLeish, I'd love to see us bring in someone who can try to get us playing football, like Houllier tried. But I still don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. So I will get behind the team, I'll get behind the manager and I'll support the team the best I can. Do you not look at the squad he built at Blues though, when he had time to bring in his players, and get concerned that if Blues played this brand of football, and now we are, that things won't actually change? Don't get me wrong, if he brings in his own players, and the team start performing then fair enough. But I just don't see it happening really, judging by the way he's set the current team up and the use of players in certain positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieGriffin Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 as has been said before, I dont think McLeish was solely responsible for a few of the signings at Birmingham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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