The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[Woodytom]

Some really poor arguments.

We're meant to be positive about him for the future because he had some decent moments in the past?

But it's fair to be negative about him for the future because he's had shit moments in the past?

Exactly.

Think you have missed the point Big John. No one is saying don't have a negative opinion - because its your opinion.

But there are very few negative opinions of Mcliesh that are well proposed on here.

'Mcliesh is a shit manager because he relegated blues and is a ginger clunge' is about as intellectual as it gets.

[Woodytom]

The positive moments are a cup win and doing well in Scotland. Neither of those really show he can build a premiership team that will do well.

Thats a better arguement.

[Jon]

...so why don't we support our team and wait and see? There appears to be a convenient break in the games some time in May. Perhaps this would be a good time to judge?

The 'wait and see' line can be used almost in perpetuity, though.

The 'convenient time' to judge is a subjective thing. I guess we'll have people also saying that the end of the season would not be the correct time to judge because he still won't have got some players off the books, still won't have had sufficient funds to buy the players he wants and actually put his mark on the team and so on.

As the time to judge is a subjective thing, why don't we allow people to make their judgements when they see fit rather than suggesting they lack balls because they don't reserve judgement until some time in the future?

Or you could just do what Demmers does, and make a (different) judgement after every single game .....

[Jon]

The positive moments are a cup win and doing well in Scotland. Neither of those really show he can build a premiership team that will do well.

Thats a better arguement.

But is countered by the fact that he got the Blues to 9th in the PL, their highest ever finish in the premier league, and their highest finish in the top league in England for over 50 years.

[TrentVilla]

Well Gabby seems happy enough..pledging his playing career to Villa, so I suppose AM and the club must be doing something right.

I'm sorry but I don't see the link between the two, especially as you are then going on to claim player loyalty is the result of an emotional bond to the club.

Gabby may or may not have a high opinion of McLeish but you can't have it both ways.

Perhaps the loyalty shown by one of our own is a reason why the owner of the football club really does want to build a club made

up of it's own players.

The owner/chairman should not be dictating such things in my opinion.

I think we need to give this time... we have some great talent coming through the ranks so it's not all doom and gloom and

at least we're not losing games away. ALL we need to work on is our home form and I personally think that the fans

have a big part to play in that aspect too.

The questions are, is the talent that great or is it making the break through because we've no other option? The same happened in the later years of Ellis but the young players weren't really good enough.

As for the fans, sure they have a part to play but only a small one they are just one in a number of factors.

[macandally]

Some really poor arguments.

We're meant to be positive about him for the future because he had some decent moments in the past?

But it's fair to be negative about him for the future because he's had shit moments in the past?

Exactly.

Think you have missed the point Big John. No one is saying don't have a negative opinion - because its your opinion.

But there are very few negative opinions of Mcliesh that are well proposed on here.

'Mcliesh is a shit manager because he relegated blues and is a ginger special one' is about as intellectual as it gets.

Do you know something, I dont say this often but that is just rubbish.

Do you read the posts? What starts off as a post trying to reason why McLeish is not the man for the job either medium or long term, in fact at all is soon cut into isolated individual sentences quote by quote until the inital message is lost or psychoanalysed until it can eventually be refuted by those whose sole desire appears to be to justify Mcleishes existance or implore us to give him time to do something, in fact anything, positive.

Any one of the 6 wins (4 against the bottom three if my memory serves) is met with an outpouring of positivity that invariably dissapates as quickly as the next fixture.

The reason that people like myself get a little short is that those who do support him appear to have little to substantiate their support beyond those two or things that were argued previously and repeatedly.

Hes a nice bloke.

He inherited a bad squad (not convinced).

We should give him time.

I would do that if there was any indication that he was going to progress this club. Patience is earned by positive progress, we are up and own and often all over the place. There is no pattern of formation, team plan, palying style.............

There is nothing in his past to suggest he is a good manager, nothing since he has been here to suggest that is likely to change and this club under him is not developing any type of technical/playing style that will move the club forward.

But as usual, pick out the points you want to dissect, quote them in isolation, point out what a bad fan I am and all the other tiresome sticks and stones that simply mask the fact there is not much of a case for the defence (literally).

[OnlyOne]

Funny how no one was around defending McLeish when we got defeated by Swansea. But when he gets a victory you all come out of the woodwork.

It should be interesting how many of you disappear again if we get a bad result against QPR.

[Paddywhack]

Funny how no one was around defending McLeish when we got defeated by Swansea. But when he gets a victory you all come out of the woodwork.

It should be interesting how many of you disappear again if we get a bad result against QPR.

I think it's funnier how after a win some people still manage to criticise him, personally. People have different sense of humour's though

[T.Daley]

I am supporting him because he is the manager of AVFC, I dont need to find excuses for that.

[TrentVilla]

I am supporting him because he is the manager of AVFC, I dont need to find excuses for that.

Absolutely, no you don't.

That though is very different to supporting him for any tangible reason, by that logic you would support anyone who is our manager. Again fair enough.

You can't expect everyone to just have blind faith like that though or be surprised when people are dismissive of this stance.

[Mammoth10]

Funny how no one was around defending McLeish when we got defeated by Swansea. But when he gets a victory you all come out of the woodwork.

It should be interesting how many of you disappear again if we get a bad result against QPR.

What about the opinion that people can support him, but in the instance of say a Spurs or Swansea then we can sit back and say 'hang on no, that performance can't be defended'. Surely just saying nothing in these instances means we're not jumping on to the 'bandwagon' of anti-Mcleish posters?

Just because there may be people who do support him it doesn't mean this has to be blind support and mean we are happy with every single aspect of what he does.

[stanthemanisgod]

Just because there may be people who do support him it doesn't mean this has to be blind support and mean we are happy with every single aspect of what he does.

This.

In fact I'd go as far as to say I dont really support him I just try to input a voice of reason to those who clearly have no support for him at all and balance things out.

He's done some shocking things, it'll be a long time before I forget the Spurs debacle, he'll never be the right man to attract big name talent to the club.

But there are signs of improvement, imo he's addressing the negative aspect of his tactics and we do seem to be trying to play a bit more football.

My position is it's not all bad but could obviously be a lot better, but what I have accepted is this is our lot for a little while so I may as well look to the positives as opposed to focusing on the negatives.

[CastleBromVilla]

Funny how no one was around defending McLeish when we got defeated by Swansea. But when he gets a victory you all come out of the woodwork.

It should be interesting how many of you disappear again if we get a bad result against QPR.

Bet you've got your fingers crossed we lose so you can have another go. Dont have a go at people trying to remain positive and at least give him a chance. We've got no money, he's stuck with loads of overpaid shit not doing their job, we finish mid table, he's done a good job, then he can try and sort things in the summer, and maybe with a bit of money.

AM is going no where, get used to it.

[brommy]

...so why don't we support our team and wait and see? There appears to be a convenient break in the games some time in May. Perhaps this would be a good time to judge?

The 'wait and see' line can be used almost in perpetuity, though.

The 'convenient time' to judge is a subjective thing. I guess we'll have people also saying that the end of the season would not be the correct time to judge because he still won't have got some players off the books, still won't have had sufficient funds to buy the players he wants and actually put his mark on the team and so on.

As the time to judge is a subjective thing, why don't we allow people to make their judgements when they see fit rather than suggesting they lack balls because they don't reserve judgement until some time in the future?

I don't think many would suggest waiting longer in to seasons 2, 3 or 4 before making a judgement; I do know that it appears some on VT would prefer McLeish wasn't our manager regardless of Villa's results and/or performances.

It's possible that we'll finish the season with similar results that we've seen to date, giving us around 47 points and a mid-table finish. It's debatable whether that is acceptable for our club even given the current restrictions. Cases for/against will grow stronger if our new manager's team finishes towards/above 50 points or below 45 points.

As much as it is not possible to say whether we have 'turned the corner' based on a couple of decent results and performances, it's too early to judge McLeish based on half a season. I suspect I'd think differently if we were on 37 or 17 points after 22 games, but at 27 points this jury needs more evidence.

I stand by my proposal that the end of one season is a suitable time to judge and that it takes courage and patience not to succumb to preconceptions, the need for instant success and knee-jerk reactions.

[macandally]

There you go, I refer you to points 2 and 3 of my previous post. Within the same page!

[OnlyOne]

I'm not going to get over excited or pro defensive just because McLeish has managed a rare league win. It would be a start if he actually managed a back to back league victory, but so far he hasn't.

[T.Daley]

I am supporting him because he is the manager of AVFC, I dont need to find excuses for that.

Absolutely, no you don't.

That though is very different to supporting him for any tangible reason, by that logic you would support anyone who is our manager. Again fair enough.

You can't expect everyone to just have blind faith like that though or be surprised when people are dismissive of this stance.

I dont expect anything from anyone, but I find it disappointing that McLeish gets so much stick when compared to so many other managers.

We are not a top 6 or 7 club anymore (hopefully will be again in the near future!). We have not won a trophy for 16 years, we have lost International players to bigger teams because they did not want to stay. We have to be realistic in what we can expect. That does not mean we have low expectations, its just that we have to be aware of what has happened to us and other teams in the last 2 or 3 years.

McLeish was dealt a shit hand...a hand that he would not turn down in a million years I agree and why should he. He is dealing in a league where money counts and he has little. A squad where the heart was pretty much ripped out in the summer. He had zero time from the fans, so to begin with he sent the team out in a defensive manner. But the football we are playing now is better than it was 4 months ago. He has made some mistakes, he has tried some experiments, he is getting to know is players. Give the guy some credit for the positives (go on look there are some) if you are going to penalise him for the mistakes.

The point I am trying to make is we are where we are. McLeish is here to stay, so we have 2 choices. We get behind AVFC and enjoy supporting them, almost on a game to game basis, the match day atmosphere a goal screaming into the net in front of the Holte, the Beer, the Bovril, the balti pies, and screaming your lungs and hearts out for the Villa!

Or you choose to see the negative in everything; every game, pass, goal, substitution, expression on McLeish’s face is over analysed. Every positive becomes a fluke or is lucky. You start to resent everything about Villa. And Randy takes zero notice. Yes its wrong to ignore us, but this is not just a working mans sport any more, it’s a multi pound business and us as the customer will be number 1 priority in public but I guarantee not behind closed doors.

I do understand why he gets so much shit, but if I am getting tired of it, it clearly does not matter to Randy, but at the same time everyone as a view, and that’s what makes football and the mighty Villa so **** beautiful. UTV.

PS. Wouldn't it be so sweet if Big Eck led us to our first FA Cup win in 55 years…and then quit!

[stanthemanisgod]

There you go, I refer you to points 2 and 3 of my previous post. Within the same page!

There you go after ignoring posts from people like myself listing positives that don't include any of your points the said post???

There may well be more negatives than positives (a lot is down to opinion though) but there are some positives and untill you at least acknowledge them your arguments are never going to carry weight.

But whether you want to give him time or not it seems he will be given time, so it makes no difference if you choose to judge his performance now and other's choose to wait til the end of the season.

[KHV]

I'm not going to get over excited or pro defensive just because McLeish has managed a rare league win. It would be a start if he actually managed a back to back league victory, but so far he hasn't.

I think the QPR game is tough one, they will have new players and Hughes is making an impression.

Looking back at the Wolves game after the moment, we were bloody awful and could have been 3 or 4 down at half time, Henry got sent off and Frimpong had to go off which turned the game. Even still we never tested Hennessy in the Wolves goal really and won due to 2 "hollywood" goals as big Ron would say. I doubt Keane will be scoring every game outside the box. If you take Keanes' goals out of the performance it was crap.

[Mantis]

Funny how no one was around defending McLeish when we got defeated by Swansea. But when he gets a victory you all come out of the woodwork.

It should be interesting how many of you disappear again if we get a bad result against QPR.

Agreed. If we finished 9th like last seaosn he would be lauded as one of the best Villa managers ever. :|

For those who are using 'Mcliesh's past' to predict a particularly dull future......................

Why don't we look forward to the cup he is going to win us?

If it means getting relegated as well I'd rather not.

Id probably take a season in the championship for a cup - (baring in mind his record at coming back up is solid).

The point is, why do people focus purely on the negatives of him?? The positives just seem left behind.

When speaking about his time at Rangers, people just seem to remember the time he finished 3rd - and focus on that - rather than taking the whole package including 7 major trophies and admitting he did a very steady job. As good as MON up in Scotland.

His time at Birmingham is focused purely on his failures, rather than an outstanding season when they came 9th and a cup.

Im not saying, that its all positive and there are no negatives, but surely the man deserves a fair critique - at the very least??

The reason why it may seem like only the negatives are focused on is because his negatives far outweigh the positives.

You mention that one "outstanding" season at SHA, but even then they only finished 9th and that was while playing horrible football and scoring few goals. Aside from that all he's done at SHA is get them relegated by playing the same dire football we're currently having to put up.

Very overrated manager.