The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[macandally]

This is a poll taken from Vital Rangers, I dont really see why any this should be ignored just because he got Birmingham relegated twice. It also doesnt include their 9th finish.

What is Big Eck's greatest achievement?

Rangers champions league last 16 46%

Rangers treble 23%

Aberdeen cup winners cup 20%

Birmingham league cup 11%

This is from a Rangers fan who edits that website.

So... Alex McLeish. Fond memories?

For me yes, no one can deny that he brought success to the club. Sure, he was a surprise choice at the time but then he did learn under the best... Sir Alex Ferguson. He did make a few dodgy signings but then he found a few gems as well. He was also the first manager to take us to the last 16 of the UEFA Champions League under the new format. A great achievement. I just don't think he was ever fully accepted by some Rangers fans because he was not a big name at the time. But I think he was great.

That last bit sound familiar?

I am not sure what your point is?

You ask some Rangers fans what was the best bit when he was there?

You could do that with Villa fans, it still wouldnt show you the strenth of the opposition against him, it is asking a totally differant question?

You then find one or two guys who says he liked him? Again, what does that prove? If he was as esteemed or as capable as some claim him to be, there would be more than the handful of people you will probably find (you always get cranks online!!)

Were the Rangers fans devastated when he left?

I doubt it and to be honest, cant be arsed to check.

The Blues fans were devastated when he left and appalled when he went to Villa were they?

Again, I seem to recall a large element of ridicule that the man who had engineered their downfall with his dour, insepid team ethos had jumped ship to go to their nearest rivals. But again, cant be arsed to check.

[T.Daley]

For those who are using 'Mcliesh's past' to predict a particularly dull future......................

Why don't we look forward to the cup he is going to win us?

If it means getting relegated as well I'd rather not.

Id probably take a season in the championship for a cup - (baring in mind his record at coming back up is solid).

The point is, why do people focus purely on the negatives of him?? The positives just seem left behind.

When speaking about his time at Rangers, people just seem to remember the time he finished 3rd - and focus on that - rather than taking the whole package including 7 major trophies and admitting he did a very steady job. As good as MON up in Scotland.

His time at Birmingham is focused purely on his failures, rather than an outstanding season when they came 9th and a cup.

Im not saying, that its all positive and there are no negatives, but surely the man deserves a fair critique - at the very least??

This is such a fair point. But Big Eck was written off the moment he walked through the door. Some of the abuse he gets on here is shameful, especially when people will give him zero credit for anything remotely positive he does, putting down to luck instead.

But he is certainly not a quitter and he clearly is not going to get sacked anytime soon, so we either choose to love to hate him or we actually get behind the manager of our beloved club. Think I know which will happen.

its not shameful, it is factual. We didnt want him full stop, he brought nothing to the party!

As for Rangers and Blues, the web is crawling with fans of those clubs speaking highly of McLeish, his ability and his style of football...........................................Oh hang on a minute. No its not.

Nobody likes him as a manager, past or present, apart from a minority on here (yes I can use that term) who seem to think that he has been held back his career by the teams he has managed, the poor playing staff he has had etc etc.

Its just not true!

How is it factual? ALL of the criticism he receives is based on an individuals view of him. That is not fact.

For every negative comment or viewpoint taken on him, you could easily match it with a positive one.

Look I cant say he was my 1st choice, even my 50th, but he is here, he is slowly (maybe very slowly) going in the right direction with very limited resources and he is OUR manager. Why not reserve judgement until the end of the season. Because wailing (harsh I know) on a website is not suddenly going to make Randy fire him.

We won at the weekend, in a derby, it was a real thriller and still we moan. Its a shame when we cant even enjoy a win, life is too short!

[macandally]

For those who are using 'Mcliesh's past' to predict a particularly dull future......................

Why don't we look forward to the cup he is going to win us?

If it means getting relegated as well I'd rather not.

Id probably take a season in the championship for a cup - (baring in mind his record at coming back up is solid).

The point is, why do people focus purely on the negatives of him?? The positives just seem left behind.

When speaking about his time at Rangers, people just seem to remember the time he finished 3rd - and focus on that - rather than taking the whole package including 7 major trophies and admitting he did a very steady job. As good as MON up in Scotland.

His time at Birmingham is focused purely on his failures, rather than an outstanding season when they came 9th and a cup.

Im not saying, that its all positive and there are no negatives, but surely the man deserves a fair critique - at the very least??

This is such a fair point. But Big Eck was written off the moment he walked through the door. Some of the abuse he gets on here is shameful, especially when people will give him zero credit for anything remotely positive he does, putting down to luck instead.

But he is certainly not a quitter and he clearly is not going to get sacked anytime soon, so we either choose to love to hate him or we actually get behind the manager of our beloved club. Think I know which will happen.

its not shameful, it is factual. We didnt want him full stop, he brought nothing to the party!

As for Rangers and Blues, the web is crawling with fans of those clubs speaking highly of McLeish, his ability and his style of football...........................................Oh hang on a minute. No its not.

Nobody likes him as a manager, past or present, apart from a minority on here (yes I can use that term) who seem to think that he has been held back his career by the teams he has managed, the poor playing staff he has had etc etc.

Its just not true!

How is it factual? ALL of the criticism he receives is based on an individuals view of him. That is not fact.

For every negative comment or viewpoint taken on him, you could easily match it with a positive one.

Look I cant say he was my 1st choice, even my 50th, but he is here, he is slowly (maybe very slowly) going in the right direction with very limited resources and he is OUR manager. Why not reserve judgement until the end of the season. Because wailing (harsh I know) on a website is not suddenly going to make Randy fire him.

We won at the weekend, in a derby, it was a real thriller and still we moan. Its a shame when we cant even enjoy a win, life is too short!

OK, so show the me the positive argument on relegating blues twice?

The postiive argument to playing a brand of anti football?

The postiive argument to not scoring enough goals?

Do you want me to go on? Those are statistics that are there in black and white and its those that people base their arguments on.

The pro McLeish stand point seems to be based around two things:

He is our manager and is unlikely to be sacked at least until the summer.

He is a nice bloke.

Now how silly does that sound?

[Houlston]

I am not sure what your point is?

You ask some Rangers fans what was the best bit when he was there?

You could do that with Villa fans, it still wouldnt show you the strenth of the opposition against him, it is asking a totally differant question?

You then find one or two guys who says he liked him? Again, what does that prove? If he was as esteemed or as capable as some claim him to be, there would be more than the handful of people you will probably find (you always get cranks online!!)

Were the Rangers fans devastated when he left?

I doubt it and to be honest, cant be arsed to check.

The Blues fans were devastated when he left and appalled when he went to Villa were they?

Again, I seem to recall a large element of ridicule that the man who had engineered their downfall with his dour, insepid team ethos had jumped ship to go to their nearest rivals. But again, cant be arsed to check.

Its fairly obvious what the point is, but never mind.

When something is posted that you dont agree with then its coming from a crank or a minority? You then further post things as fact, see T.Daleys response, but cant be arsed to check anything as fact so its only ever your perception.

You also have to be a bit daft to think that a large portion of Birmingham City fans will not want to ridicule him. But he has been their most successful manager since 63. Not sure they were ridiculing him when that whistle blew last February.

By the way I thought it was me that followed you around.

[T.Daley]

For those who are using 'Mcliesh's past' to predict a particularly dull future......................

Why don't we look forward to the cup he is going to win us?

If it means getting relegated as well I'd rather not.

Id probably take a season in the championship for a cup - (baring in mind his record at coming back up is solid).

The point is, why do people focus purely on the negatives of him?? The positives just seem left behind.

When speaking about his time at Rangers, people just seem to remember the time he finished 3rd - and focus on that - rather than taking the whole package including 7 major trophies and admitting he did a very steady job. As good as MON up in Scotland.

His time at Birmingham is focused purely on his failures, rather than an outstanding season when they came 9th and a cup.

Im not saying, that its all positive and there are no negatives, but surely the man deserves a fair critique - at the very least??

This is such a fair point. But Big Eck was written off the moment he walked through the door. Some of the abuse he gets on here is shameful, especially when people will give him zero credit for anything remotely positive he does, putting down to luck instead.

But he is certainly not a quitter and he clearly is not going to get sacked anytime soon, so we either choose to love to hate him or we actually get behind the manager of our beloved club. Think I know which will happen.

its not shameful, it is factual. We didnt want him full stop, he brought nothing to the party!

As for Rangers and Blues, the web is crawling with fans of those clubs speaking highly of McLeish, his ability and his style of football...........................................Oh hang on a minute. No its not.

Nobody likes him as a manager, past or present, apart from a minority on here (yes I can use that term) who seem to think that he has been held back his career by the teams he has managed, the poor playing staff he has had etc etc.

Its just not true!

How is it factual? ALL of the criticism he receives is based on an individuals view of him. That is not fact.

For every negative comment or viewpoint taken on him, you could easily match it with a positive one.

Look I cant say he was my 1st choice, even my 50th, but he is here, he is slowly (maybe very slowly) going in the right direction with very limited resources and he is OUR manager. Why not reserve judgement until the end of the season. Because wailing (harsh I know) on a website is not suddenly going to make Randy fire him.

We won at the weekend, in a derby, it was a real thriller and still we moan. Its a shame when we cant even enjoy a win, life is too short!

OK, so show the me the positive argument on relegating blues twice?

The postiive argument to playing a brand of anti football?

The postiive argument to not scoring enough goals?

Do you want me to go on? Those are statistics that are there in black and white and its those that people base their arguments on.

The pro McLeish stand point seems to be based around two things:

He is our manager and is unlikely to be sacked at least until the summer.

He is a nice bloke.

Now how silly does that sound?

Yeah you win. McLeish out.

You keep to the enjoyment you clearly have of bashing our manager and for people trying to get behind the team and I will enjoy Villa in my own way. As I said life is too short.

The comment by brommy sums it up for me.

"In short, grow some balls and patience"

[stanthemanisgod]

not wanting to be pendantic but those aren't statistics.

I dont love the guy and I do think he's limited somewhat in his ability to move the club forward that said I can see positives in his appointment that go further than thinking he's a nice bloke.

For a start he's prepared to get on with the job that's been given to him, managing the team whilst sorting the wage bill out, and he's doing so whilst keeping us at pretty much the same level as last year.

In Shay Given he's signed probably the best gk available during the summer window.

I have seen quite a significant reduction in the amount of hoofs from Dunne and Collins in recent games, even the odd pass!!

He's managed to get a run of half decent performances out of Ireland, something we havn't seen in nearly 18 months.

He gave Gardner his first PL start.

At the same time I'm not blind to his negative points, he's an average manager, not brilliant, not complete shite.

Do I want better? Yes

Is that his fault? No

[macandally]

I am not sure what your point is?

You ask some Rangers fans what was the best bit when he was there?

You could do that with Villa fans, it still wouldnt show you the strenth of the opposition against him, it is asking a totally differant question?

You then find one or two guys who says he liked him? Again, what does that prove? If he was as esteemed or as capable as some claim him to be, there would be more than the handful of people you will probably find (you always get cranks online!!)

Were the Rangers fans devastated when he left?

I doubt it and to be honest, cant be arsed to check.

The Blues fans were devastated when he left and appalled when he went to Villa were they?

Again, I seem to recall a large element of ridicule that the man who had engineered their downfall with his dour, insepid team ethos had jumped ship to go to their nearest rivals. But again, cant be arsed to check.

Its fairly obvious what the point is, but never mind.

When something is posted that you dont agree with then its coming from a crank or a minority? You then further post things as fact, see T.Daleys response, but cant be arsed to check anything as fact so its only ever your perception.

You also have to be a bit daft to think that a large portion of Birmingham City fans will not want to ridicule him. But he has been their most successful manager since 63. Not sure they were ridiculing him when that whistle blew last February.

By the way I thought it was me that followed you around.

You quoted one guy? How is that not a minority (indeed sole) view?

You then start blending my response to your post with that of someone elses to try and substantiate your case?

As for spending my time trolling around for statistics that support my arguement, I would rather have a life, but I am cognisant of the general feelings that were out there during significant periods without feeling the need to go and reinvestigate them.

As for me following you around, dont flatter yourself!

[Houlston]

You quoted one guy? How is that not a minority (indeed sole) view?

You then start blending my response to your post with that of someone elses to try and substantiate your case?

As for spending my time trolling around for statistics that support my arguement, I would rather have a life, but I am cognisant of the general feelings that were out there during significant periods without feeling the need to go and reinvestigate them.

As for me following you around, dont flatter yourself!

I didn't say it was?

And?

Exactly cognisant aka perception.

The old 'get a life' defence yet you have a higher posts per day ratio than me.

So I'm flattering myself ha ha ha more pot and kettle, you really are the gift that keeps giving.

Anyway I'm bored of this feel free to reply but to coin a phrase I cant be arsed.

[snowychap]

...so why don't we support our team and wait and see? There appears to be a convenient break in the games some time in May. Perhaps this would be a good time to judge?

The 'wait and see' line can be used almost in perpetuity, though.

The 'convenient time' to judge is a subjective thing. I guess we'll have people also saying that the end of the season would not be the correct time to judge because he still won't have got some players off the books, still won't have had sufficient funds to buy the players he wants and actually put his mark on the team and so on.

As the time to judge is a subjective thing, why don't we allow people to make their judgements when they see fit rather than suggesting they lack balls because they don't reserve judgement until some time in the future?

[Nigel]

To be fair to McLeish my perception of him and his 'anti football' way has changed considerably since the Liverpool debacle back in mid December.

I have actually enjoyed our football style, some could even call it entertaining at times!

[JulieB]

Well Gabby seems happy enough..pledging his playing career to Villa, so I suppose AM and the club must be doing something right.

Perhaps the loyalty shown by one of our own is a reason why the owner of the football club really does want to build a club made

up of it's own players. Maybe that's the only way players can remain loyal if they have some form of emotional bond to the club,

within reason.

I think we need to give this time... we have some great talent coming through the ranks so it's not all doom and gloom and

at least we're not losing games away. ALL we need to work on is our home form and I personally think that the fans

have a big part to play in that aspect too.

[Paddywhack]

OK, so show the me the positive argument on relegating blues twice?

The postiive argument to playing a brand of anti football?

The postiive argument to not scoring enough goals?

Do you want me to go on? Those are statistics that are there in black and white and its those that people base their arguments on.

The pro McLeish stand point seems to be based around two things:

He is our manager and is unlikely to be sacked at least until the summer.

He is a nice bloke.

Now how silly does that sound?

The only thing that sounds silly is you.

Yeah, he relegated blues twice, but you're STILL basing your judgement of the man from BEFORE he was at the club? To me that's like being angry at your mrs for shagging someone else before you even met her. Why not judge him on the time he's spent at this club? Plus it was blues he relegated! Hero!

Three goals away from home last week, for me, will suffice. How many do you want? And if it was anti-football, I really can't wait to see us actually play

*disclaimer - I'm niether pro or anti-mcleish :|

[Keyblade]

not wanting to be pendantic but those aren't statistics.

I dont love the guy and I do think he's limited somewhat in his ability to move the club forward that said I can see positives in his appointment that go further than thinking he's a nice bloke.

For a start he's prepared to get on with the job that's been given to him, managing the team whilst sorting the wage bill out, and he's doing so whilst keeping us at pretty much the same level as last year.

In Shay Given he's signed probably the best gk available during the summer window.

I have seen quite a significant reduction in the amount of hoofs from Dunne and Collins in recent games, even the odd pass!!

He's managed to get a run of half decent performances out of Ireland, something we havn't seen in nearly 18 months.

He gave Gardner his first PL start.

At the same time I'm not blind to his negative points, he's an average manager, not brilliant, not complete shite.

Do I want better? Yes

Is that his fault? No

This. Entirely.

[JulieB]

Yeah, he relegated blues twice, but you're STILL basing your judgement of the man from BEFORE he was at the club? To me that's like being angry at your mrs for shagging someone else before you even met her

Made me chuckle that one.

It is a fair point to make though... does it matter what AM has acheived before? Surely we need to judge on what he does at Aston Villa Football Club.

However whatever happens the fans will moan and get on his back so I think it's pointless debating.

The youngsters are now apparently coached on the critiscism that will come their way from the terraces at Villa Park when they play.

Perhaps that's why AM chose to let Gary Gardner made his full debut at Wolves last Saturday. How sad.

[Big_John_10]

Some really poor arguments.

We're meant to be positive about him for the future because he had some decent moments in the past? So we should want Heskey week in week out because he's had some good moments in the past?

Winning the cup for blues they beat two premiership teams. How does that show he will bring success? How can that possibly mean more than 2 relegations?

He took rangers into the last 16 of the champions league, that's a good result but so was mclaren taking boro to a UEFA cup final and I wouldn't want him near this team.

You can cling onto rare moments of success in his career but there is very little to suggest that through his coaching, man management and transfer activity he will be able to build a team that will challenge the big teams in the league.

He's here to keep us just as a prem team and some of you are happy with this because we beat a shit team every so often and because Randy has a tattoo.

It's a joke really. Can't remember a time when expectations were so low and fans were so accepting to just get by while watching awful football.

[Paddywhack]

Some really poor arguments.

We're meant to be positive about him for the future because he had some decent moments in the past?

But it's fair to be negative about him for the future because he's had shit moments in the past?

[thetrees]

Some really poor arguments.

Indeed!

He's here to keep us just as a prem league and some of you are happy with this because we beat a shit team every so often and because Randy has a tattoo.

[Keyblade]

Some really poor arguments.

We're meant to be positive about him for the future because he had some decent moments in the past? So we should want Heskey week in week out because he's had some good moments in the past?

Winning the cup for blues they beat two premiership teams. How does that show he will bring success? How can that possibly mean more than 2 relegations?

He took rangers into the last 16 of the champions league, that's a good result but so was mclaren taking boro to a UEFA cup final and I wouldn't want him near this team.

You can cling onto rare moments of success in his career but there is very little to suggest that through his coaching, man management and transfer activity he will be able to build a team that will challenge the big teams in the league.

He's here to keep us just as a prem league and some of you are happy with this because we beat a shit team every so often and because Randy has a tattoo.

It's a joke really. Can't remember a time when expectations were so low and fans were so accepting to just get by while watching awful football.

Who cares what he's done in the past. He's been here for 7 months and all that matters is what he's done in that time. He's been distinctly average, and not at all as calamitous as is being made out.

[macandally]

OK, so show the me the positive argument on relegating blues twice?

The postiive argument to playing a brand of anti football?

The postiive argument to not scoring enough goals?

Do you want me to go on? Those are statistics that are there in black and white and its those that people base their arguments on.

The pro McLeish stand point seems to be based around two things:

He is our manager and is unlikely to be sacked at least until the summer.

He is a nice bloke.

Now how silly does that sound?

The only thing that sounds silly is you.

Yeah, he relegated blues twice, but you're STILL basing your judgement of the man from BEFORE he was at the club? To me that's like being angry at your mrs for shagging someone else before you even met her. Why not judge him on the time he's spent at this club? Plus it was blues he relegated! Hero!

Three goals away from home last week, for me, will suffice. How many do you want? And if it was anti-football, I really can't wait to see us actually play

*disclaimer - I'm niether pro or anti-mcleish :|

Well thank you but actually no, I am responding to the latest of a long line of posts that if you read back you will find.

It is though I appreciate much quicker to click on the latest page and respond.

If you want to judge him on what he is currently doing. 6 wins in 22 without any real tactics. The problem is, there are some who seem to think that clinging onto the odd positive is grounds to "wait and see" or that some of us "were against him from the start". I was and I see no reason to deny it.

As posted previously, to save your scrolling back, he did nothing to impress me prior to Villa, has done nothing since he has been at the club to impress me and there is little suggestion he has the tactical, motivational or development nous to do anything in the future.

All that said, lets give him some time to do something (even if it is set us back 10 years).

[Big_John_10]

Some really poor arguments.

We're meant to be positive about him for the future because he had some decent moments in the past?

But it's fair to be negative about him for the future because he's had shit moments in the past?

I probably should have made myself more clear.

The positive moments are a cup win and doing well in Scotland. Neither of those really show he can build a premiership team that will do well.

His two relegations, shocking football with blues and crap football with us actually does provide evidence that it's unlikely he will build anything decent at this club.