VillaRoy Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 So AM has done better than GH so far and with (arguably) a poorer squad.With Young and Downing gone, I don't think there is much to argue about - it's a vastly inferior squad Can't argue with that.... ... but I know at some stage Houllier had an injury crisis. I can't remember if it was for the period/games being compared. Yeah, does cover some of those games. That was perhaps one of the worst injury crisis's I can remember, sure there were around 12 or so players out at one point, including our entire frontline and experienced midfielders. Gerard Houllier clearly under-performed with the likes of Young and Downing in the team, hense all the fans on his back last season, we were expecting a lot more in results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Saying useless and ridiculous things like "I think you are going to get your post count up if you are going to spend your time defending the ginger muppet", and calling McLeish other posters' 'mate' simply because they choose to look at his job so far objectively. Maybe easier to pick up on specific language than address the points? :winkold: Why is it so immature to say that I think he will get his post count up defending McLeish when I do think that. If McLeish continues in his current vein I believe most Villa fans will seek his removal. I certainly haven't seen anything in the first 9 games to convince me otherwise. And - I asked the same question of Houlston without a response as yet - why are my opinions not objective but yours and his are? Is this just because mine differ from yours? Its because you cant stand McLeish so much and your views come with huge prejudice and emotion, which is fine but then that is not an objective view. I have nothing personally against McLeish. He seems a decent enough bloke and he is certainly not offensive when he speaks. I don't give two stuffs about him being ex-Blues either - if he were good and we had poached him from our main rivals then I would be over the moon! I just don't rate him as a manager. I think his efforts with Birmingham - both from a footballing perspective and from a results perspective last season were poor. I think he has continued this since his arrival at VP. I could also equally argue that your views of him are tempered by your allegiance to the Villa/C&B specs and, as a consequence, you are trying to be supportive and ignoring the evidence before your eyes. Getting on to grounds of who is objective and who is not in such matters is extremely tenuous IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have nothing personally against McLeish. He seems a decent enough bloke and he is certainly not offensive when he speaks. I don't give two stuffs about him being ex-Blues either - if he were good and we had poached him from our main rivals then I would be over the moon! I just don't rate him as a manager. I think his efforts with Birmingham - both from a footballing perspective and from a results perspective last season were poor. I think he has continued this since his arrival at VP. I could also equally argue that your views of him are tempered by your allegiance to the Villa/C&B specs and, as a consequence, you are trying to be supportive and ignoring the evidence before your eyes. Getting on to grounds of who is objective and who is not in such matters is extremely tenuous IMO. Fair enough but I think it is important and if you think its tenous then dont reply about it. The thead you started on him being on bbc1 would suggest its more than a management issue you have with him. Also your argument about my allegiance to Villa doesnt allow me to be objective is straw clutching at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Fair enough but I think it is important and if you think its tenous then dont reply about it. The thead you started on him being on bbc1 would suggest its more than a management issue you have with him. Also your argument about my allegiance to Villa doesnt allow me to be objective is straw clutching at best. Tenuous does not mean unimportant! You accused me of being not objective and I am merely stating that I might not be, although I believe I am, but you are in a similar emotional position. Your reference to "straw clutching" is bizarre - if you can't see that emotions and footballing preferences can effect objectivity both ways then there is really little point in debating with you. You could, at least, construct an argument as to why you think you remain objective? As for my comments on McLeish on BBC, it is part of the reason I don't rate him as a manager. He is a dull and dour individual that doesn't inspire me personally. I make no apologies for wanting a manager that I can believe in and that I think has that something special that could inspire my team to overachieve. I thought it was there with MON when he first came (which was a massive lift after a few years of DOL who I believe has a similar level of charisma to McLeish) and results showed this IMO but I think his other failings eventually overtook this. It certainly isn't their with McLeish. I also believe football is like any other area of work - if you have someone at the top with personality and charisma that you want to follow and believe in then this can make up for a lot of deficiencies elsewhere - again I can't believe that the team can get excited by a McLeish talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Tenuous does not mean unimportant! You accused me of being not objective and I am merely stating that I might not be, although I believe I am, but you are in a similar emotional position. Your reference to "straw clutching" is bizarre - if you can't see that emotions and footballing preferences can effect objectivity both ways then there is really little point in debating with you. You could, at least, construct an argument as to why you think you remain objective? As for my comments on McLeish on BBC, it is part of the reason I don't rate him as a manager. He is a dull and dour individual that doesn't inspire me personally. I make no apologies for wanting a manager that I can believe in and that I think has that something special that could inspire my team to overachieve. I thought it was there with MON when he first came (which was a massive lift after a few years of DOL who I believe has a similar level of charisma to McLeish) and results showed this IMO but I think his other failings eventually overtook this. It certainly isn't their with McLeish. I also believe football is like any other area of work - if you have someone at the top with personality and charisma that you want to follow and believe in then this can make up for a lot of deficiencies elsewhere - again I can't believe that the team can get excited by a McLeish talk. Thanks for telling me what tenuous doesnt mean and Barry if you feel there is little point in debating with me then dont. Its not me that becomes patronising with the "mate" comments or the explanation of certain words during said debate. The whole objective thing is obvious as your posts are written at times with high emotion and you can tell when you are getting wound up. This is not what being objective is about. So whilst I have my "claret and blue" specs on i'm not getting wound up by it all and feel I can remain objective. Thats the last for me on the matter of objectivity as I'm finding it boring and no doubt others are too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savosleftboot Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 There's a stat in this feature that like last season we're losing more points from winning positions in the top flight again. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15470953.stm Coupled with dodgy defending at set-pieces again I think it's fair to suggest that players are not learning lessons from last season with similar mistakes and should be taking some responsibility especially the senior pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 No identity with the team. Poor football, poor defending. I like the man but the quicker he goes, the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 So much for "McLeish will shore up our defence". We're just as bad as last season at conceding late goals, dropping leads, conceding from set pieces etc. I thought McLeish was supposed to be good at all that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 So much for "McLeish will shore up our defence". We're just as bad as last season at conceding late goals, dropping leads, conceding from set pieces etc. I thought McLeish was supposed to be good at all that? Not playing poor defenders, is generally a good way to shore up the defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 McLeish is ruining this team. There is no need to have Heskey playing as a withdrawn striker because he pushes Gabby out wide and Bent never gets any service. Petrov and Herd provide nothing going forward except for Petrov's occasional long strike. We need Bannan, Ireland or Albrighton on the pitch because they are the only players we have who can create chances. N'Zogbia did fine and hopefully he can build on his performance but we need balance. We can't just attack down one side so we need Albrighton creating from the other side as well or we are way to predictable. Having Bannan in the midfield would also help just because he can find anyone on the pitch and deliver a great pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Heskey was a passenger today. I feel really sorry for him because I think he is a decent player BUT only when he plays up top. He is not an ACM. McLeish is a truly awful manager if he can't see this - I was amazed Emile stayed on the whole game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowDoINotLikeThat Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Heskey was a passenger today. I feel really sorry for him because I think he is a decent player BUT only when he plays up top. He is not an ACM. McLeish is a truly awful manager if he can't see this - I was amazed Emile stayed on the whole game. Its ridiculous playing him there and the fact McWaank didn't change things again was baffling. We are going nowhere under him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I still can't understand why this guy was appointed. If they wanted to do it on the cheap there were plenty of options out there. Instead they actually did the opposite and paid money for McLeish. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 McLeish needs to organise better passing and movement in training..Maybe bring Cowans back into the 1st team fold because the current set up is not working. The back end of last season seen the team have some great passing and movement skills, it complimented Darren Bent's game and we started to look a good outfit. The defence is also starting to look shaky, I dont like the Hutton/Collins combination looking after the right hand side of defence, its weak. I would like to see Cuellar at the right hand side of CB with Lichaj(if fit) or Herd back in at RB.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowDoINotLikeThat Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I still can't understand why this guy was appointed. If they wanted to do it on the cheap there were plenty of options out there. Instead they actually did the opposite and paid money for McLeish. Why? out of spite? That is the only reason i can think of. Result wise he ain't done that bad but he is rubbish and should never have been appointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Our Last 9 Games : D/D/D/L/D/W/L/L/D Not good enough.. the quicker McLeish leaves Villa the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Our Last 9 Games : D/D/D/L/D/W/L/L/D Not good enough.. the quicker McLeish leaves Villa the better. So how long before the fans start to make their voices heard? Or do we just keep going along and supporting such dross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Our Last 9 Games : D/D/D/L/D/W/L/L/D Not good enough.. the quicker McLeish leaves Villa the better. So how long before the fans start to make their voices heard? Or do we just keep going along and supporting such dross?Personally I wouldn't mind seeing McLeish go and a GOOD manager brought in in January and backed in the transfer window. However, that's not going to happen, so it would probably be best to get rid of him at the end of the season if things carry on as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Go on, SnC, get out that bedsheet, paintbrush and can of paint! I know you're dying to...:winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowDoINotLikeThat Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 The club will stubbornly back him . Even if we were bottom of league by christmas . theyve made a stupid rod for their own back. The club gave us the finger by appointing him first place. We are going nowhere and have to accept it. 3 year contract... christ 3 years of seeing Heskey play in midfield ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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