Houlston Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The stats I saw said 38% after the sending off. I couldn't care that much about possession though, it is the shots on target - a big fat zero - that speaks volumes on your mates coaching abilities! The two corners are just part of the pressure applied by West Brom. Is your mate exempt from coaching his team to defend against set pieces then? Ged got slaughtered for the same misdemeanour last season. I think you are going to get your post count up if you are going to spend your time defending the ginger muppet, unless of course RL makes the right decision for a change and sends him back to Blues, who, by the way, look to be playing some decent football under Hughton. How very grown up of you Barry to start with the whole "mate" thing. He's not my mate, I didnt want him but he is here now and i'm trying to be objective rather than get on his back about everything and anything that happens to make his job even harder than it already is. Theres no point in pointing the finger at me with Houllier either as I did the same with him as like McLeish I was prepared to give him a chance rather try and push him out before he has done anything. Ive already written this but just to help you along, if two central defenders in Dunne and Collins fail to even jump to head a ball away how the **** can you blame McLeish, should he be on the sidelines shouting jump? These are experienced players regardless of how much coaching is done these guys do know how to jump and head a ball away. Also you seemed to care about possesion before but suddenly now you dont as it doesnt sit with your argument very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 We conceded from two corners, one of which from a player that would have been marked by the sent off Herd. If Collins and Dunne fail to actually jump in the air then I dont see how that is AM's fault? The second goal was another corner whereby Cuellar failed to get a foot in before Scharner, how is that also AM's fault?. Because if you sit back and let a team apply pressure on you for 60 minutes you will invariably at some point concede. The fact that we had no shots on target and had little possession shows that Eck hasn't got a clue. The sooner he is out of our club the better. We had ten men FFS, we havent got the most technically gifted players at the best of times, we havent played a possesion game properly for years. Also we had 47% possesion so thats hardly little possesion with ten men. And as I said we conceded from two corners. The stats I saw said 38% after the sending off. I couldn't care that much about possession though, it is the shots on target - a big fat zero - that speaks volumes on your mates coaching abilities! The two corners are just part of the pressure applied by West Brom. Is your mate exempt from coaching his team to defend against set pieces then? Ged got slaughtered for the same misdemeanour last season. I think you are going to get your post count up if you are going to spend your time defending the ginger muppet, unless of course RL makes the right decision for a change and sends him back to Blues, who, by the way, look to be playing some decent football under Hughton. Real mature post there . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-Villan Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The stats I saw said 38% after the sending off. I couldn't care that much about possession though, it is the shots on target - a big fat zero - that speaks volumes on your mates coaching abilities! The two corners are just part of the pressure applied by West Brom. Is your mate exempt from coaching his team to defend against set pieces then? Ged got slaughtered for the same misdemeanour last season. I think you are going to get your post count up if you are going to spend your time defending the ginger muppet, unless of course RL makes the right decision for a change and sends him back to Blues, who, by the way, look to be playing some decent football under Hughton. How very grown up of you Barry to start with the whole "mate" thing. He's not my mate, I didnt want him but he is here now and i'm trying to be objective rather than get on his back about everything and anything that happens to make his job even harder than it already is. Theres no point in pointing the finger at me with Houllier either as I did the same with him as like McLeish I was prepared to give him a chance rather try and push him out before he has done anything. Ive already written this but just to help you along, if two central defenders in Dunne and Collins fail to even jump to head a ball away how the **** can you blame McLeish, should he be on the sidelines shouting jump? These are experienced players regardless of how much coaching is done these guys do know how to jump and head a ball away. Also you seemed to care about possesion before but suddenly now you dont as it doesnt sit with your argument very well. Equally, if a manager isn't at all responsible for the actions of his players on the pitch, there isn't much point having a manager at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The stats I saw said 38% after the sending off. I couldn't care that much about possession though, it is the shots on target - a big fat zero - that speaks volumes on your mates coaching abilities! The two corners are just part of the pressure applied by West Brom. Is your mate exempt from coaching his team to defend against set pieces then? Ged got slaughtered for the same misdemeanour last season. I think you are going to get your post count up if you are going to spend your time defending the ginger muppet, unless of course RL makes the right decision for a change and sends him back to Blues, who, by the way, look to be playing some decent football under Hughton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Equally, if a manager isn't at all responsible for the actions of his players on the pitch, there isn't much point having a manager at all. But when did I say that? Why is it when someone makes a point the most extreme view has to be taken on that point? Sometime players have to to take responsibility for mistakes especially when its the simplest of things such as jumping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 To be honest I think McLeish did get everything right in the line-up and how he set the team out to play, but once we were down to 10 men he was shown up to be clueless. I know it's not his fault (or Herd's for that matter) that we had a player sent off but he should be able to react to this at this. spot on, once Herd went we should have gone to a back 3 of Cuellar,Dunne and Collins. I think on the whole McLeish is tactically bloody useless even when there are 11 men on the pitch. But we knew that before he took over. I will give him some credit because I thiugh the starting 11 was nearly spot on for once, I would have played Ireland instead of Nzogbia though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-Villan Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Equally, if a manager isn't at all responsible for the actions of his players on the pitch, there isn't much point having a manager at all. But when did I say that? Why is it when someone makes a point the most extreme view has to be taken on that point? Sometime players have to to take responsibility for mistakes especially when its the simplest of things such as jumping. It seemed to be impied from your earlier post. I would also say that's a pretty reductive argument. If you think that defending a corner is only to do with the simplest of things such as jumping then I disagree entirely. Defending a corner, as a team was where we failed, and that can and should be coached. Individual mistakes happen, of course, but if these mistakes keep being repeated, which they have been, it is quite reasonable to point fingers at the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Based on past good performances; Herd should have replaced Hutton at RB..Ireland and Bannan should be together in midfield. I would also start Cuellar now he is fit ahead of Collins at CB and also look to try Clark in DM as a replacement for Petrov behind Bannan and Ireland. Also Albrighton deserves a start ahead of N'Zogbia.. Playing Clark as the extra defensive player would allow the FB's to add more width when we attack. ----------------Given---------------- Herd----Cuellar----Dunne----Warnock -----------------Clark------------------- ---------Ireland------Bannan---------- ----Albrighton--Bent---Gabby-------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Based on past good performances; Herd should have replaced Hutton at RB..Ireland and Bannan should be together in midfield. I would also start Cuellar now he is fit ahead of Collins at CB and also look to try Clark in DM as a replacement for Petrov behind Bannan and Ireland. Also Albrighton deserves a start ahead of N'Zogbia.. Playing Clark as the extra defensive player would allow the FB's to add more width when we attack. ----------------Given---------------- Herd----Cuellar----Dunne----Warnock -----------------Clark------------------- ---------Ireland------Bannan---------- ----Albrighton--Bent---Gabby-------- That doesn't look too shabby actually. Would prefer Petrov or even Herd to Clark atm though. Ireland and Bannan together should combine well with the front 3, and even though Albrighton hasn't shown anything of worth yet, he gets in for simply not being as crap as N'Zogbia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Equally, if a manager isn't at all responsible for the actions of his players on the pitch, there isn't much point having a manager at all. But when did I say that? Why is it when someone makes a point the most extreme view has to be taken on that point? Sometime players have to to take responsibility for mistakes especially when its the simplest of things such as jumping. It seemed to be impied from your earlier post. I would also say that's a pretty reductive argument. If you think that defending a corner is only to do with the simplest of things such as jumping then I disagree entirely. Defending a corner, as a team was where we failed, and that can and should be coached. Individual mistakes happen, of course, but if these mistakes keep being repeated, which they have been, it is quite reasonable to point fingers at the manager. Its not what I implied its how you read it but thats just semantics. And again you have read my post and taken the extreme view that I think defending a corner is just about jumping, which obviously it isnt. However in this instance neither Collins nor Dunne attempted to jump or compete to defend against Olsson so whilst I agree defending a set piece is something that has to be continually coached and trained I dont think in this particular instance that the coach is to blame. If defenders choose not to do the most simplest of things for whatever reason known to them sometimes its out of the coaches hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-Villan Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Equally, if a manager isn't at all responsible for the actions of his players on the pitch, there isn't much point having a manager at all. But when did I say that? Why is it when someone makes a point the most extreme view has to be taken on that point? Sometime players have to to take responsibility for mistakes especially when its the simplest of things such as jumping. It seemed to be impied from your earlier post. I would also say that's a pretty reductive argument. If you think that defending a corner is only to do with the simplest of things such as jumping then I disagree entirely. Defending a corner, as a team was where we failed, and that can and should be coached. Individual mistakes happen, of course, but if these mistakes keep being repeated, which they have been, it is quite reasonable to point fingers at the manager. Its not what I implied its how you read it but thats just semantics. And again you have read my post and taken the extreme view that I think defending a corner is just about jumping, which obviously it isnt. However in this instance neither Collins nor Dunne attempted to jump or compete to defend against Olsson so whilst I agree defending a set piece is something that has to be continually coached and trained I dont think in this particular instance that the coach is to blame. If defenders choose not to do the most simplest of things for whatever reason known to them sometimes its out of the coaches hand. Yes, hence my use of the word 'seemed'. You're right that sometimes the players need to take responsibility as well. If it was an isolated incident conceding like this I might even agree. But it isn't, so I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Based on past good performances; Herd should have replaced Hutton at RB..Ireland and Bannan should be together in midfield. I would also start Cuellar now he is fit ahead of Collins at CB and also look to try Clark in DM as a replacement for Petrov behind Bannan and Ireland. Also Albrighton deserves a start ahead of N'Zogbia.. Playing Clark as the extra defensive player would allow the FB's to add more width when we attack. ----------------Given---------------- Herd----Cuellar----Dunne----Warnock -----------------Clark------------------- ---------Ireland------Bannan---------- ----Albrighton--Bent---Gabby-------- That doesn't look too shabby actually. Would prefer Petrov or even Herd to Clark atm though. Ireland and Bannan together should combine well with the front 3, and even though Albrighton hasn't shown anything of worth yet, he gets in for simply not being as crap as N'Zogbia. Liking that team. Petrov is hopeless as the ACM as he doesn't have the energy or desire to track runners. Clark also gives us an extra head - something that we need for set pieces. I think, as much as I rate the kid, playing Herd at RB and as the DCM could be too much for him. :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaRoy Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 My McLiesh niggles so far; - McLiesh shouldn't have sent Makoun on loan, its looking like a shocking decision, the guy could string passes together. - He doesn't seem to know where best to play his players. - We didn't sell Downing for £50 million, like he said at a fans forum, when asked what it would take to sell him . - His rewards to Herd for his man of the match performance against Newcastle at right-back, by replacing in the following game by Alan Hutton. Ever since he has stuck with AH, even though he has been largely poo since he came to England and has made mistake after mistake for us. - We tried to sign Steven Davis again. - He's guided our team out of the Carling Cup in a defeat at home to Bolton, of whom made 8 changes from league game (perhaps all we may have had to play for this season). - We've managed 11 points from 9 games, 8 of which on paper, we should have at least a chance of winning. - We were in a better position under Houllier last season, even with a thousand injuries. - McLiesh just sets out teams to defend and play negative is something that has been branded against him. From the games so far, I'd say he sets out teams not to defend properly or attack. We conceded less in corresponding fixtures under Houllier, who according to the players, didn't have a clue. - I still get the feeling he hasn't an idea yet what is a decent way to set up our players as a functioning team. It is not like we have signed loads of players, not much gelling to be done, players know each other well enough. - 32 year record against Baggies gone with his first derby. - The team lack fighting spirit. Ok, maybe I can't blame McLiesh for that, or can I? God I love McLiesh. Hope he and the squad sort it out soon. How he deals with the games in November and December will shape this season now and maybe his future. Certainly has time to do something with the team still. Still can't help but think how much of an odd decision this was by the board to bring him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 He's not my mate, I didnt want him but he is here now and i'm trying to be objective rather than get on his back about everything and anything that happens to make his job even harder than it already is. Sorry. I don't understand why your view constitutes an objective view but, because mine is a different view, you pronounce mine not to be objective - is it that only your views that can be objective? Theres no point in pointing the finger at me with Houllier either as I did the same with him as like McLeish I was prepared to give him a chance rather try and push him out before he has done anything. Ive already written this but just to help you along, if two central defenders in Dunne and Collins fail to even jump to head a ball away how the **** can you blame McLeish, should he be on the sidelines shouting jump? These are experienced players regardless of how much coaching is done these guys do know how to jump and head a ball away. I didn't point the figure at you. I was a supporter of Ged but many commented on his poor organisation of the defence and they had a point on this. This is a (or as I see it the one) supposed strength of a McLesih coached team yet it keeps happening. I don't think you can absolve a manager of blame for defensive errors when the team keeps making the same mistakes. Equally IMO, he should have replaced Herd, a player that would contribute defensively, by bringing on Clark as the DCM after the sending off. Just because you keep saying something doesn't make it right! :winkold: Also you seemed to care about possesion before but suddenly now you dont as it doesnt sit with your argument very well. I made a point about the possession and shots on target. What I was saying is that you can play a game, as we used to under MON, where you have less possession (as I said I saw a figure of 38% after the sending off) but can still be dangerous i.e. counterattacking. The possession and shots on target say we didn't do either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The stats I saw said 38% after the sending off. I couldn't care that much about possession though, it is the shots on target - a big fat zero - that speaks volumes on your mates coaching abilities! The two corners are just part of the pressure applied by West Brom. Is your mate exempt from coaching his team to defend against set pieces then? Ged got slaughtered for the same misdemeanour last season. I think you are going to get your post count up if you are going to spend your time defending the ginger muppet, unless of course RL makes the right decision for a change and sends him back to Blues, who, by the way, look to be playing some decent football under Hughton. Real mature post there . Sorry mate. I disagree with you so my post is not mature???? That's mature. :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The stats I saw said 38% after the sending off. I couldn't care that much about possession though, it is the shots on target - a big fat zero - that speaks volumes on your mates coaching abilities! The two corners are just part of the pressure applied by West Brom. Is your mate exempt from coaching his team to defend against set pieces then? Ged got slaughtered for the same misdemeanour last season. I think you are going to get your post count up if you are going to spend your time defending the ginger muppet, unless of course RL makes the right decision for a change and sends him back to Blues, who, by the way, look to be playing some decent football under Hughton. Always adding value to the debate. :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Sometimes a picture paints a thousand words,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Sometimes a picture paints a thousand words,. And sometimes it doesn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 - 32 year record against Baggies gone with his first derby. Wolves was first derby We were in a better position under Houllier last season, even with a thousand injuries KMAC got 6 of them points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The stats I saw said 38% after the sending off. I couldn't care that much about possession though, it is the shots on target - a big fat zero - that speaks volumes on your mates coaching abilities! The two corners are just part of the pressure applied by West Brom. Is your mate exempt from coaching his team to defend against set pieces then? Ged got slaughtered for the same misdemeanour last season. I think you are going to get your post count up if you are going to spend your time defending the ginger muppet, unless of course RL makes the right decision for a change and sends him back to Blues, who, by the way, look to be playing some decent football under Hughton. Real mature post there . Sorry mate. I disagree with you so my post is not mature???? That's mature. :winkold: Yeah, it's because you disagree . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts